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  #11  
Old 04-24-2019, 11:27 AM
Mich48041 Mich48041 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Riley TWP MI
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https://www.vansaircraft.com/wp-cont...2_MM-notes.pdf
Bottom of page 1.
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RV-12 Flying
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  #12  
Old 04-24-2019, 11:36 AM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dix Hills
Posts: 53
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Holy cow... Vans support got back to me almost instantly on my followup question.

Here is what they said...

The engineers will accept the cherry but a pulled rivet has a higher tendency to work loose than driven rivet. The cherry rivets are also much more particular about hole size. These could be used in place of the 470 rivets providing your hole meet the required cherry rivet specifications for hole diameter.

So it looks like you were correct... the Cherry Max rivet is an acceptable substitute.

The only question I have left is which Cherry Max rivet to order. According to the charts I think I'll need a dash-3. The dash-3 has a clamping range of about .126 thru .187. The thickness of the WD-1222 is approx .090 and the HS-1203 spar is approx. .040 giving a total thickness of .130. Does that sound about right to you?

Thanks again for saving me countless days of rework.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2019, 11:42 AM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
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Location: Dix Hills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mich48041 View Post
Thanks. I'm guessing the support person checked with engineering and found that the Cherry Max is an acceptable substitute. That could be why I got an instantaneous response to my followup question.
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2019, 03:36 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyuma View Post
Thanks. I'm guessing the support person checked with engineering and found that the Cherry Max is an acceptable substitute. That could be why I got an instantaneous response to my followup question.
This is a pretty critical joint that can get a fair amount of stress from forces on the elevator and opposed by the control system. I wouldn't too quickly write off their concerns about pull rivets working loose. In most applications I wouldn't think twice about it. However, I see this a pretty critical connection, as it directly ties the elevator to the control system.

Larry
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2019, 06:49 PM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
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Location: Dix Hills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
This is a pretty critical joint that can get a fair amount of stress from forces on the elevator and opposed by the control system. I wouldn't too quickly write off their concerns about pull rivets working loose. In most applications I wouldn't think twice about it. However, I see this a pretty critical connection, as it directly ties the elevator to the control system.

Larry
Hi Larry

I think you may have misunderstood which connection we're talking about. The WD-1222's hold the counter balance tube, not the stabilator.

Also, the WD-1222 is getting riveted to the .040 aluminum of the HS-01203 spar, which is probably why there are 12 rivets each on the front and rear WD-1222's. How strong does a rivet need to be that is connecting something to an .040 piece of aluminum?

There is something that is a bit confusing to me though... The WD-1207-1 and the WD-1208-1 (the stabilator control horns) do carry the stress of the control cables moving the stabilator and those two brackets get riveted to the same spar as the WD-1222 but with BSPQ-5-2 blind rivets. The difference being that the WD-1222's get riveted before the spar tube is closed and therefore you have access to both ends of the rivet which means you can use an AN470. However, the WD-1207-1 and the WD-1208-1 don't get riveted until after the spar is formed into a box and there is no access to the shop head side of the rivet for squeezing, so a blind rivet or bolt into a nut plate would be your only options. The plans call for BSPQ-5-2 blind rivets for the stabilator horns. Curious.
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  #16  
Old 04-24-2019, 07:30 PM
rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
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Back in the old days (like 2 years ago), the control horns were ONLY attached to the sparbox by (4) AN3-4A bolts each. Then they found some cracking of the spar around those bolts.. so they came up with a retrofit for basically every RV-12 in the air (with the stabilator closed up)... my guess is it was simpler to take those same instructions and incorporate them into the KAI.. rather than come up with some sort of different plan that takes advantage of the open box.

I did that retrofit.. but.. I can't remember using any BSPQ's that weekend. mmm I'm going to have to review my directions now
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  #17  
Old 04-24-2019, 07:36 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyuma View Post
Hi Larry

I think you may have misunderstood which connection we're talking about. The WD-1222's hold the counter balance tube, not the stabilator.

Also, the WD-1222 is getting riveted to the .040 aluminum of the HS-01203 spar, which is probably why there are 12 rivets each on the front and rear WD-1222's. How strong does a rivet need to be that is connecting something to an .040 piece of aluminum?

There is something that is a bit confusing to me though... The WD-1207-1 and the WD-1208-1 (the stabilator control horns) do carry the stress of the control cables moving the stabilator and those two brackets get riveted to the same spar as the WD-1222 but with BSPQ-5-2 blind rivets. The difference being that the WD-1222's get riveted before the spar tube is closed and therefore you have access to both ends of the rivet which means you can use an AN470. However, the WD-1207-1 and the WD-1208-1 don't get riveted until after the spar is formed into a box and there is no access to the shop head side of the rivet for squeezing, so a blind rivet or bolt into a nut plate would be your only options. The plans call for BSPQ-5-2 blind rivets for the stabilator horns. Curious.
Sorry, I thought this was the elevator horn attachment.

Larry
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  #18  
Old 04-25-2019, 11:39 AM
Jyuma Jyuma is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Dix Hills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lr172 View Post
Sorry, I thought this was the elevator horn attachment.

Larry
That's what I figured. No worries, I'm grateful for all assistance fellow Rv-12 builders provide.
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