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Seattle Avionics on a Mac

E

Ex Bonanza Bucko

Well Known Member
Hi:
I have a new Dynon Skyview system with knobs etc. in a new RV12 S-LSA from Van?s. I have everything available from Van?s installed in the airplane.

After learning to use Skyview I went to Seattle Avionics to download their sectional and en route chart data. I found that getting that done with an iMac is danged near impossible and, at the very least, a major pain. For starters the download of the sectional data takes about two hours via a high speed internet connection and that is only the first of many files that must be downloaded. Then figuring out which arcane file name applies to which data base from the download menu is a trial and error process. Then extracting the zip file and installing it in the required files to make it useable for loading into Skyview doesn?t work. Two days of telling Seattle about these problems have produced only suggestions that I get Microsoft stuff installed on my Mac?.ain?t gonna happen!

It became very obvious, at least to me, that the geeks who produced the process for supplying the data to Mac users either never used a Mac to do it or they didn?t care about the trouble it was going to cause?..there is no pre info or warning about the trouble to come for Mac users. One of the replies I got from Seattle Avionics about the long download of the sectional chart data was that the file had to include the entire USA when sent to a Mac but that it could be split up as sectional charts all are and faster to download if you use a PC.

I think I have wasted my $99 with Seattle Avionics but I have learned a lesson?..and I think you should learn it too if you use a Mac.
 
Ex Bonanza Bucko said:
Hi:
I have a new Dynon Skyview system with knobs etc. in a new RV12 S-LSA from Van?s. I have everything available from Van?s installed in the airplane.

After learning to use Skyview I went to Seattle Avionics to download their sectional and en route chart data. I found that getting that done with an iMac is danged near impossible and, at the very least, a major pain. For starters the download of the sectional data takes about two hours via a high speed internet connection and that is only the first of many files that must be downloaded. Then figuring out which arcane file name applies to which data base from the download menu is a trial and error process. Then extracting the zip file and installing it in the required files to make it useable for loading into Skyview doesn?t work. Two days of telling Seattle about these problems have produced only suggestions that I get Microsoft stuff installed on my Mac?.ain?t gonna happen!

It became very obvious, at least to me, that the geeks who produced the process for supplying the data to Mac users either never used a Mac to do it or they didn?t care about the trouble it was going to cause?..there is no pre info or warning about the trouble to come for Mac users. One of the replies I got from Seattle Avionics about the long download of the sectional chart data was that the file had to include the entire USA when sent to a Mac but that it could be split up as sectional charts all are and faster to download if you use a PC.

I think I have wasted my $99 with Seattle Avionics but I have learned a lesson?..and I think you should learn it too if you use a Mac.
Click to expand...

I have Mac as well and can not figure out how to transfer updates to my EFIS via SD card. I kept a PC laptop so this can be done easily. It seems as though Mac is not designed to work with any of the PC world. When you get it figured out please share the formula. Larry
 
The Seattle issue is discussed in much detail on the Dynon forum, good thing to join that one.
 
Ex Bonanza Bucko said:
Hi:
I have a new Dynon Skyview system with knobs etc. in a new RV12 S-LSA from Van’s. I have everything available from Van’s installed in the airplane.

After learning to use Skyview I went to Seattle Avionics to download their sectional and en route chart data. I found that getting that done with an iMac is danged near impossible and, at the very least, a major pain. For starters the download of the sectional data takes about two hours via a high speed internet connection and that is only the first of many files that must be downloaded. Then figuring out which arcane file name applies to which data base from the download menu is a trial and error process. Then extracting the zip file and installing it in the required files to make it useable for loading into Skyview doesn’t work. Two days of telling Seattle about these problems have produced only suggestions that I get Microsoft stuff installed on my Mac….ain’t gonna happen!

It became very obvious, at least to me, that the geeks who produced the process for supplying the data to Mac users either never used a Mac to do it or they didn’t care about the trouble it was going to cause…..there is no pre info or warning about the trouble to come for Mac users. One of the replies I got from Seattle Avionics about the long download of the sectional chart data was that the file had to include the entire USA when sent to a Mac but that it could be split up as sectional charts all are and faster to download if you use a PC.

I think I have wasted my $99 with Seattle Avionics but I have learned a lesson…..and I think you should learn it too if you use a Mac.
Click to expand...

I'm due to get a new RV12 SLSA in the next couple of weeks. Vans told me that I can get the Seattle Charts VFR sectionals installed on the new Dynon Touch at the factory when I pick it up and I pay the $99 fee.
Did you pick up your plane before this option was available and are now trying to install on your own, with a Mac? I too am a Mac user and this would definitely be a problem installing ongoing updates (unless I borrow a PC and download it there on a USB drive and then plug into the Dynon). A pain none the less.

I flew the new Garmin G3x Touch in Mitch Lock's plane and was very impressed. It had VFR sectionals installed and it was great. If it had been available now (and with 2 screens) I would have selected it. As it is, I selected the the Dynon Touch because I was reassured that it would be equally as good.
Now I'm having misgivings given your problems with the sectionals.

I'm a little confused…you say you've 'wasted' your $99 but can't you still download it via a PC so at least you have the sectionals?
 
Last edited:
Top Cat:
That option to have the sectionals installed wasn't available three weeks ago when I paid for my new bird. I would have taken it. I hope that Van's figured out that the Seattle Avionics process was a pain for Mac owners and I suspect it isn't all that slick for PCs either.

I will find a PC someplace and get the charts so my $99 isn't wasted. But it is a real pain in the gluteus to order something expecting to get it and then to find out after you ordered it that it really won't work on your computer.....it is "Bush League" commerce if there ever was any. The last time I saw business practices this poor were in an Arab bazar in a far away place.

I will try the PC and then I'll probably not re order the Seattle charts after my year subscription expires and I may not even update the charts if it becomes a pain.

EBB
 
EBB,

I'll call Vans tomorrow and see what's going on. I'm really not happy with your report of your experience especially as I'm due to collect my own plane in a couple of weeks.

One of the reasons I chose to go with the Dynon Touch was that the sectional option in the Garmin GX touch was available now in the Dynon and was just a matter of choosing it, pay for it and they'd get it installed. I planned on using it for the long flight home.

I'm a Garmin guy and was very hesitant about choosing Dynon?this is why. ****.:confused:
 
Give the Seattle Avionics guys a chance to chime in. They are super-responsive and located in the same building as Dynon. The last people on the planet to want you to have a bad experience is Seattle Avionics... (Just in case that wasn't self evident.)
 
Top Cat:
I am very happy with the Dynon Skeview system in the airplane. It's just the pain of getting Seattle Avionics to deliver their charts on as Mac. So please don't let me induce you to go sour on Dynon....it's a great system and I'm very happy with it. Maybe the Seattle charts are just as good but I sure am pretty unhappy about the process of getting them delivered to a Mac.....and I think I certainly should have been warned of those problems by Seattle before I bought.

I had a Garmin 796 in my Bonanza before I sold it to go the LSA route.....was gonna lose my medical. I think the Dynon Skyview is better and easier to operate than the one in the 796. I wouldn't go back to it.

Thanks,
EBB
 
Mculver:
I have not seen that. The only response I got was to pretty much go find a PC. I will do that but I am not happy that their product info didn't tell me about the problems with Macs before I ordered.....example: 1.5 hour download of all the US sectional charts on a hight speed connection caused me to ask why I couldn't just download only the West Coast charts I use....I ain't ever gonna fly my RV12 to Maine ferheavinsakes! The response I got was the lesser chart option is only available on a PC. I think that ALSO should have been in the product info before I bought. If Seattle Avionics is interested in customer satisfaction I have not seen it in about three days of asking questions and screwing around with this.
EBB
 
Mike,

I take your point. As a VAF newbie I wasn't aware that Seattle Avionics reposed on this forum.

That being said, EBB's post doesn't indicate Seattle Avionics being "super responsive". Quite the opposite, which I find strange considering you said they're even in the same building as Dynon! Jeez.
Also, since Apple are HUGE in the NW seems to me that not offering the same service to Mac users that PC customers get is?well, poor.
 
EBB,

Still not clear, sorry?did you download the Seattle sectionals to your Skyview using a PC successfully? You just would much prefer to be able to use your Mac?

Or... are you just not using sectionals at all on the Skyview (using the Skyview 'charts' instead?).
 
Top Cat:
I have not been able to download, unzip and load any Seattle Avionics files to either a memory stick or to my Skyview in the bird. I do not have easy access to a PC. So all I have at present is the Skyview moving map. I will find a PC and get the Seattle charts at some point. But I have better uses of my time right now than screwing around with a convoluted and un useable Seattle Avionics method for a Mac.

And I remain completed unhappy with the fact that Seattle Avionics exposed me to a waste of time I did not have by failing to warn me....or anyone else....of the trouble with their products on a Mac.
EBB
 
Plain and simple, the Seattle Avionics solution for Mac users is unacceptable.
I also have Dynon SkyView displays in my aircraft.
Until Seattle Avionics comes up with a streamlined Mac install solution, like so many other vendors have done, I refuse to purchase their product.
Since they seem to be behind on this issue, it makes me wonder if they are really listening to what their customers need.
 
Also Skydemon, PocketFMS and even the MD-11 and Boeing 777 courses will not run on a Mac. But Mac gives you the oppertunity to install a dedicated Windows partion called bootcamp. Will take you an hour to install. You can even use Parallels or VMware (I use parallels). They let you seamlessly run Windows and Mac applications side-by-side, without rebooting. You don't even notice that Windows is running in a box, it looks and feel like a Mac.
You can wait for a Mac solution but with an hour work you can have both worlds. I'm a Mac fan but sometimes Windows is the way to go.

iMac with second screen running B777 course/manuals on MacOS with parallels and windows. Macbook is running FSX B777 pmdg on bootcamp windows.
The wine is for euhhh.....motivation ;)

IMG_0184.jpg
 
I hope Seattle Avionics will choose to address the poor Apple support. I am "lucky" to have a PC laptop, but prefer my iMac. These updates are required way too often for SA to simply forego an acceptable solution for Mac folks.

Ironically, too, is that fact that the only image files I have ever had a problem viewing in Preview on my iMac are Dynon's screenshots. Might be "Apple's problem," but I bet Dynon could help address this.

That said, I love my Skyview and SA's products. I just wish they would take the steps needed to accommodate Mac users sooner rather than later.
 
as I dont have my avionics yet I cant try it but has anybody tried running the windows app in Darwine or another WINE distro on OSX?
 
If you don't want to purchase Parallels or VMWare Fusion, you could give the free Open Source Virtual Box a try. See if it gets you over the hump with what Seattle Avionics needs. You'll still need a copy of Windows to install.

I use Parallels and like it a lot. I have very few programs that don't run under OSX, and that is why I keep a Windows virtual machine installed. Anything that is not too graphics intensive seems to work well in that environment.
 
You don't need a PC

While I'd appreciate if Dynon S/W truly ran in MAC operating system, if you do what is recommended above and install Parallels on your MAC, the Seattle Avionics downloads run like a charm.

Been using the Data Manager utility that way on my MAC for months now and have not had a problem. System downloads the Sectionals, airport taxi charts ... while I am doing other things on my computer, and it updates the USB drive in the background without a problem.

After each flight, I usually download my flight data on the same USB drive, bring it home and upload to SavvyAnalysis for free. Helps me track all kinds of engine parameters and I can view them in really easily viewed charts. So my USB thumb drive has effectively become my log book and links my MAC with my avionics. I still record my flights in an actual log, but I can really see the Skyview/USB drive as a paperless log system.
 
EBB,

I contacted Vans today. I was told that they 'can' assist in me downloading the Seattle sectionals files on their PC but advised that it can take a while and had I thought about what I'd do when I got home a needed to do regular updates? Not quite what I was told at first but there you go.

Right now, close to delivery, I just want to make sure I've got the chart option for the flight home.

Vans directed me to the right place for the Dynon download (I could only find the Aspen page for some reason), and also the Dynon site page explaining the type of USB stick and size needed and preparing it for download.

I found my little Acer PC laptop and it's running okay so tomorrow I'll go out and buy a San Disk Cruzer Fit USB stick, probably the recommended 16GB, and see if I can buy and download the sectional files. It's a tiny short stick which apparently is best because it doesn't stick down and touch your leg.

The points about the Parallels software is well taken. I don't use the Mac desktop just a MacBook Air and I can't think of any other reason to need Parallels for Windows based software other than these Seattle sectional downloads/updates. However, the simplicity described is encouraging.

When I spoke with Garmin at Sebring 2014 they told me that they'd upgraded their site to allow for downloading both Windows and Mac . Perhaps Seattle will catch up?

I called Seattle and couldn't get a human to answer. No operator and the sales line said all their sales folks were talking with customers and that I should e-mail. I did e-mail and they haven't yet replied.

I'll let you know how I make out. What could go wrong?:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
Top Cat:
Thank you very much. I appreciate your help. I will probably be able so spend a couple of hours on this problem tomorrow; it is a pain that it takes that long to get anything done with this stuff. I also may just keep using paper sectionals until the geek world discovers that a customer is their most important asset.
EBB
 
EBB,

I would think that Seattle will catch up and provide for Mac users in the future?maybe!

Now to see if my little Acer can save the day!:rolleyes:
 
Seattle avionics

I finally got time to look into Parallels and Windows and installing them on my Mac so I can download Seattle Avionics' chart data. Here's the cost of that in dollars.....to say nothing of time and hassle:

Parallel costs either $79 or, after "upgrade" $129.
Windows 8 costs $119.
Total either $200 or $250 so I can acquire the privilege of downloading Seattle's $99 chart package without spending hours downloading them and then figuring out how to get them to a memory stick and into my Skyview system.....which I can't.

So I would be spending about $300 to $350 to get charts that Seattle told me I could download for $100......not bothering to tell me about the trouble doing that on a Mac.

Somebody in the Seattle Avionics management has their head placed where the sun don't shine.
EBB :)
 
Ex Bonanza Bucko said:
I finally got time to look into Parallels and Windows and installing them on my Mac so I can download Seattle Avionics' chart data. Here's the cost of that in dollars.....to say nothing of time and hassle:

Parallel costs either $79 or, after "upgrade" $129.
Windows 8 costs $119.
Total either $200 or $250 so I can acquire the privilege of downloading Seattle's $99 chart package without spending hours downloading them and then figuring out how to get them to a memory stick and into my Skyview system.....which I can't.

So I would be spending about $300 to $350 to get charts that Seattle told me I could download for $100......not bothering to tell me about the trouble doing that on a Mac.

Somebody in the Seattle Avionics management has their head placed where the sun don't shine.
EBB :)
Click to expand...

Concur.
No SA for me until they get their act together on the Mac.
 
I did get an e-mail back from Seattle Avionics?.explaining that I needed Windows on my Mac and gave a few instructions along with links to buying the subscription.

Not much help really.

I'm surprised?.someone said Seattle share the building with Dynon and the NW is sort of the tech/computer region of USA with Apple being headquartered there.

Many of the pilots/owners/builders/forum guys I've had contact with seem to prefer Macs to PCs.

Frustrating?.:(
 
Maybe you need an extra laptop ?

I have 2 Dell Laptops as that are about 2 to 3 years old . Both have Windows 7 and nothing else on them. I was going to sell them on Craigs List with the new School season coming up for a $200 to $300 each if anyone is interested in having an extra Windows laptop for this very reason. Our family has moved to all Macs but I am keeping a desktop with windows for this very reason . . . software that just doesn't work with Mac and trust me it's not just SA. There are many many companies out there that still refuse to invest in building Mac compatible code.
 
I have used VirtualBox for many years and it works just fine. The only downside is having to buy the Windows license. It is much cheaper to find a really old Windows laptop and keep it around for things like this.

I have an old Toshiba laptop in the hangar running Windows XP that I pull out and use for the APRS tinytrak programming, Vertical Power's Configurator, and I also played around with some of the instrument panel layout programs. I'll probably also use it in the future to play around with paint scheme design software (which only seems to run on Windows). This laptop is so old it doesn't even connect to wifi :D I have to plug it into my router to download new applications.
 
We agree that the Mac process is a bit cumbersome, and we'll make sure that SA knows about your desire for a better experience here. Since they're in the same building (we're not related or part of the same company, just to be clear), I can say that I have seen their developers with apple computers in-hand, and so I know they're not PC snobs :)

A couple of notes on data packages and prices - no matter if you go with us or one of our competitors, you're going to need data that's kept up to date if you're going to ditch the paper. Aviation, obstacle, terrain, and basemap databases are all available from http://downloads.dynonavionics.com for free, and the av/obs are updated on the FAA's 28 day cycle. Others charge $99/year just for that.

Then, you can add all US VFR sectionals, IFR Lo/Hi, and over ~4000 geo-referenced GA airport diagrams from Flight Guide (dwarfing the <600 offered by the next-best competition) for $99/year via a Seattle Avionics ChartData subscription. In short, the equivalent packages from our competition run $250/year for what we and our partners offer for $99 total. I know price isn't everything, but underlying this thread seems to be a bit of confusion of what we have a available and how much it costs.

Michael Schofield
Marketing Manager
Dynon Avionics
 
Top Cat said:
I'm surprised?.someone said Seattle share the building with Dynon and the NW is sort of the tech/computer region of USA with Apple being headquartered there.
Click to expand...

Apple is headquartered in Cupertino, CA (Silicon Valley/SF Bay Area). Microsoft is headquartered in the Seattle area.
 
I just downloaded these last night with a mac and looked at both methods. I ended up using their data downloader on my parallels... (bot it when it goes on sale for $49 and used and old xp pro disk)

A few glitches but it worked and it does take a long time to download everything.

Having a higher quality USB 3.0 stick will help, also make sure your drivers are up to date for 3.0 (in parallels you need to install drivers and click a box in the settings for "USB 3.0")

Also it looks on any and every disk for a folder SkyViewUS with those certain letters caps.
 
The Skyview has a great moving map that looks just like a sectional with all the same information that a Sectional has.:rolleyes: Why not simply request a refund from Seattle Avionics and use the Skyview's data? Works great, last long. Problem solved.;)
 
JetGuy:
I thought I had the latest Skyview moving map in my brand new RV12 from Vans delivered last week. But my moving map doesn't look anything like a sectional and it doesn't look like the one on Dynon's latest web page that details the knobs etc...all of which I have. I would very much love to fire Seattle so please tell me where you got the latest Skyview system and what file name they used to download them.

EBB
 
Seriously, for VFR flying TRY the stock Skyview with the free downloads first for awhile. THEN decide if you need the Seattle subscription. Bet you won't! The stock map capabilities are amazing - terrain, airport info, airspace info, frequencies - all that. What it doesn't show? Victor airways, IFR routes. Don't need them.
 
Driftdown said:
Plain and simple, the Seattle Avionics solution for Mac users is unacceptable.
I also have Dynon SkyView displays in my aircraft.
Until Seattle Avionics comes up with a streamlined Mac install solution, like so many other vendors have done, I refuse to purchase their product.
Since they seem to be behind on this issue, it makes me wonder if they are really listening to what their customers need.
Click to expand...

+1, Additionally their service I have found to be week and very slow to respond
 
EBB, can you take some clear pictures of your Skyview powered up and post them so we can see what your map looks like or give Dynon tech support a call when you are sitting in your plane in the hanger for help. If you don't know how to post pics on the form email them to me and I'll post them. ;)
Email: [email protected]
 
I talked with Mike Schofield at Dynon yesterday and found that I have the latest charts from them....V10.1. I was confused by their add on line for the touch and knob version of Skyview which shows a Sectional Chart and some airport diagrams which are not in the Skyview charts files. I found that those are only available from Seattle Avionics and that has been a major SNAFU since they really don't support Macs....they have a "manual" download system which either sucks or doesn't work.
So I have what I should have. I will go to my son's PC across town to retrieve the Seattle Sectionals and airport diagrams since I can't do it on my Mac.

One of these days the tech business in the USA will discover that their market is growing on Macs and that they had better support them. In the meantime us Mac types will just have to muddle through with Windows and the other junk foisted on the public by Microsoft. :)
EBB
 
EBB,

I took the plunge! I ordered a San Disk Cruzer Fit 32GB USB stick on Amazon yesterday and it just arrived on overnight service. This thing is TINY!! It looks like a button and I've already dropped it! Hard to believe it can store so much data.

I installed the folder SkyViewUS on the stick and bought the subscription. I'm using my old Acer Aspire One laptop and it's running great. I downloaded the data Manager from Seattle Avionics. They send you an email with a password/pass number.

The data manager is now downloading the VFR sectionals and IFR LOW/HI charts. There were 4712 files to download and after only a few mins I'm a third of the way through. You can actually which files are downloading by running the mouse over the data manager icon in the tool bar. Right now mine says Flight Guide airport diagrams.

On the data manager screen, with the USB stick plugged in it indicates the status of the data on the stick. Right now it says mine are expired but that's to be expected.
This is pretty quick and I would imagine future updates will be much quicker.

One question I have, if any experienced Skyview user can answer?Seattle says the USB stick that comes with the Skyvview isn't big enough to hold the data that Seattle downloads. So you remove the Skyview stick from the unit and plug in the one with Sectional chart data to have the sectional option.
You can still use the Skyview stick to update Skyview etc.

From this I read it to mean that the Skyview stick installs updates right into the Skyview unit and doesn't require it to be plugged in all the time for Skyview to work properly. Is this right?

Or does it mean that you don't have the Skyview charts if you've plugged in the stick with the Seattle sectionals? I'm not familiar with Skyview but I know you can select the source of the data and it's indicated on the screen. Magenta for GPS, yellow for Skyview?I think. Is this correct?

Thanks for any help!
 
Without Seattle Charts:

No memory stick is needed in the machine "all the time" (1 exception below).
You put your update files on the stick then take it to the plane, plug it in, update, and take it out. Also, back up your configuration from time to time, particularly before and after you update or alter things (like any changes to EMS screen layouts, after fuel tank calibration, etc.) I keep a stick on my plane's key ring.

Exception: If you want to take screen snapshots at any time, a stick with room for them has to be plugged into the device. They go straight to a stick, not storage in the Skyview. This is probably a good idea for diagnostics, everyone has some sticks laying around. Doesn't have to be a big one.

AFTER A FLIGHT, if you want to download the detailed flight logs, you can put in a stick and do that task.

You might find it convenient to keep a stick in at all times. The Skyview only recognizes ONE STICK AT A TIME!

Any stick will work. There is nothing special about the Dynon stick. It does not automatically load stuff.
++++++++
For the Seattle charts, they are stored on and accessed from the stick, by Skyview. They are not "loaded into" the Skyview. If you have room on the stick, it can serve the log file and snapshot purposes as well.
 
I must be jinxed. I have the same Cruzer 32GB stick...only mine is the size of my thumb. I also have the same 4700 files. But my download has been running for six hours on my son's PC...not my Mac....and I'm only about 9% through....only about 400 files.
Whiskey, Tango...you fill in the rest!

EBB
 
Bill H,

Thanks for that info, I appreciate the tips and info. Good idea about the back up too.

EBB,

The first 4712 files were for VFR charts and airport guide?it then went to IFR approach plates and airport diagrams. Another 17,442 files! After an hour it's at 10, 201 files so it's doing okay, for a little netbook.
 
Well...I figured part of the slowness out. This is my son's computer and a PC which I avoid and it had energy saver setting that shut the danes thing down after 20 minutes. I fixed that. Currently I am downloading 4700 files of the flight guid airport diagrams and after that I will get to the sectional charts and other stuff.

EBB:)
 
EBB,

Good luck?mine's still going! Looks like it's reviewing 25k+ files and is almost done that so I think it'll be done then?about 3 hours so far.

The buttons are starting to change color to indicate being current!

This is SO exciting! Um..well, not really but at my age?hahaha!

Hopefully the Acer will stay healthy for future updates. I'll do some TLC on it.:cool:
 
Keeping the danged MS PC running was the key....almost half done and the rest, I hope, will be in there tomorrow. I think future updates will be fast because all that will be downloaded will be changes..

Us WingNuts can get our jollies in goofy places that yer basic ground pounder would not appreciate. I think I'm due so smiles after the hassle of trying to get this done on the Mac:)
EBB
 
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