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Zip Ties...are these OK?
- Thread starter TXFlyGuy
- Start date
I used zip ties while I was initially running wires to keep them somewhat bundled. I replaced them all with lacing when the wiring was near completion. It looks so much neater and I suspect holds the wires better also. I wouldn't recommend them forward of the firewall for anything. Some will say they are all right but I didn't like them up there. I used hi temp lacing and adel clamps forward of the firewall.
Zip Tie Gun? Never heard of that. Where do I get one? Home Depot?
Panduit makes the good ones. Not cheap, but you can find them used on ebay.
For example (new):
http://www.amazon.com/Panduit-GTS-Controlled-Tension-Cut-Off/dp/B001MMY7QS
I have one of those. I do enough work on airplanes and ground-bound vehicles that it was worth buying new. They make a clean flush cut. No razor-sharp pokie-outie edges to assault you and you can adjust the tension to accommodate different sizes.
A good small wire cutter with a sharp flush edge works well too and is cheaper, but if you are doing a lot of zip ties the Panduit tool is hard to beat.
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
Same here, but 14 years of happy in-service experience.
BillL
Well Known Member
I looked up the standards for zip ties for aviation use. They recommend a stainless steel locking tang, and UV tolerant material. I got some of the original Ty-Raps, now owned by Thomas and Betts (T&B). Eastwood had a tie puller with an adjustable tension for snipping. It was $10 on sale. They don't have to be expensive.
However - in the end, tie string is so cheap, durable, and neat, I finally used this is nearly all locations. In tight areas I did use these ties to fasten a bundle to a permeant tab.
The T&B ties are black, so I used about 300 white ones to do all the temporary containment. The big issue that I found (maybe just me) was the difficulty in making the runs neat. Keeping all bundles tight, at all times, was very helpful to yield nice runs without widely differing lengths at the ends.
Good luck!!
However - in the end, tie string is so cheap, durable, and neat, I finally used this is nearly all locations. In tight areas I did use these ties to fasten a bundle to a permeant tab.
The T&B ties are black, so I used about 300 white ones to do all the temporary containment. The big issue that I found (maybe just me) was the difficulty in making the runs neat. Keeping all bundles tight, at all times, was very helpful to yield nice runs without widely differing lengths at the ends.
Good luck!!
BillL
Well Known Member
Tie Gun. Bah! Practice putting zip ties on with one hand, blindfolded. You will have to do it someday.
And after developing this skill, lacing is easy!!!
That is interesting, as there are DAR's who approve of these throughout the aircraft.
One more example of an FAA inspector makign up his own rules.
Advisory Circular 43.13-1B
Kyle Boatright
Well Known Member
AC's are not regulatory.
That is why they are called "Advisory".
Walt
Well Known Member
Could you show me where exactly 43-13 excludes the use of plastic ties?
Walt - It doesn't, and a friend pointed this out to me earlier as a point of reference.
I bought a bag of 1000 of these and use them everywhere. I just bought a second bag a week ago. The Ty-Wraps don't have "teeth" along one side of the strap, they're smooth all around... The stainless tang locks in wherever you stop pulling. This leaves a smooth surface against anything you're tied to.
The TY24MX is the UV Stabilized wrap. Bought in 1000 qty., they're about $0.14 each. That's a lot more than $.05 each for the cheap ones, but on the whole they're still a lot cheaper than the Tefzel/Flouropolymer ones at $1-$2 each.
I bought two Panduit guns for $10 from Boeing Surplus, years ago when it used to be open to the public. The day I bought mine was the morning after they restocked, and when I picked them up, there was a guy on the other side of the tool bin giving me the evil eye... I didn't know why until later... Apparently a common scam was for employees to "drop" their tools so they'd get recycled to the Surplus store, and then they'd go buy them cheap and take them to their home workshop. I may have interrupted his scam, or maybe it was just someone else who recognized the screaming deal I was about to get and was jealous. At the time the guns were about $400 each new.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
They make zip tie cutters. Basically, it's a cutting pliers without the bevel so it doesn't leave the little piece that can tear skin.
You can also make one with a belt sander, removing the bevel.
Best,
FasGlas
Well Known Member
I use small edge cutters that nip off the tail right at the lock so there's nothing left to cut me but I can't tell you how many planes I've seen with the sharp nylon knifes just waiting to draw blood.
emuyshondt
Well Known Member
The T&B ty-raps are about $0.07/ea for 1,000 at Newark Electronics
A new single edge razor blade swiped flush across the top of the "block" of the cable ties will shave them perfectly flush. You can do several dozen before the blade gets dull - very inexpensive.
Raymo
Well Known Member
Zip ties under the cowl and used on the motor mount protected with tape in service for over 12 years without one ill effect or any failure. I would never use adel clamps to route wire where a zip tie would hold a wire in a non critical location and be easy to replace when needed.
Adel clamps = $+#s .... and a real pain to use.
Adel clamps = $+#s .... and a real pain to use.
rightrudder
Well Known Member
I went with Adels for most FWF stuff, but when I used zip ties I protected the mount first with that silicone "rescue" tape that fuses to itself. Great stuff!
Zip Ties Firewall Forward
This is why A&Ps that work on EXPERIMENTAL aircraft do NOT like extensive use of Zip Ties.
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All these scratches are from yesterday doing a mag removal reinstallation for 500 hour mag inspection on an RV. If you have to get someone to do work on your EXPERIMENTAL, this is why some A&Ps will not work on them.
When you build your EXPERIMENTAL, please keep in mind that everything human made needs maintenance and will at some point need removed and replaced. A little extra work up front will save effort down the line. We homebuilders are not an assembly line trying to turn out a product as cheap and fast as possible.
This is why A&Ps that work on EXPERIMENTAL aircraft do NOT like extensive use of Zip Ties.
All these scratches are from yesterday doing a mag removal reinstallation for 500 hour mag inspection on an RV. If you have to get someone to do work on your EXPERIMENTAL, this is why some A&Ps will not work on them.
When you build your EXPERIMENTAL, please keep in mind that everything human made needs maintenance and will at some point need removed and replaced. A little extra work up front will save effort down the line. We homebuilders are not an assembly line trying to turn out a product as cheap and fast as possible.
That's exactly what happens if you don't install them properly. Flush cutters, or a proper tool for setting them and cutting in one motion, and this isn't an issue.
Adel clamps have a way of letting you know they are in your way also.
If you plan your plumbing and wiring to follow existing obstacles like the motor mount, and keep in mind that the filter and mags will need to be removed at some time, it will make future maintenance much more pleasant.
If you plan your plumbing and wiring to follow existing obstacles like the motor mount, and keep in mind that the filter and mags will need to be removed at some time, it will make future maintenance much more pleasant.
If one scratches me, I stop, cut it off, finish the job at hand, and reinstall properly. One quick swipe with a razor blade or sharp utility knife to score the tie, then pop off the excess. RAYMO, suggest holding the dull side of the knife to cut the tie wrap.
They were cut off. Even when cut, they still scratch.
So correct.
Too many builders are in a hurry to get done and do not take the time to PLAN the installation so that parts can be replaced. There are also a lot of builders that try to do things as cheap as possible only to need to spend more in the future than they would have if they done it correctly the first time.
f14av8r
Well Known Member
Cool Cable Ties
These are cool - they solve my biggest concern with traditional zip ties and that is the edge of the tie cutting through the insulation / shielding material of item being tied. I just ordered 1000 of them and need, maybe, 100. I guess I'll keep half though. So, does anybody want 500 of these for $30 - shipping included?
These are cool - they solve my biggest concern with traditional zip ties and that is the edge of the tie cutting through the insulation / shielding material of item being tied. I just ordered 1000 of them and need, maybe, 100. I guess I'll keep half though. So, does anybody want 500 of these for $30 - shipping included?
sparkcrafter
Active Member
Randy,
I'll take the 500 tie wraps.
PM sent.
I'll take the 500 tie wraps.
PM sent.
Walt
Well Known Member
I'll take em if still available, can always use more ty-wraps. Shoot me an email.
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GalinHdz
Well Known Member
If one scratches me, I stop, cut it off, finish the job at hand, and reinstall properly. One quick swipe with a razor blade or sharp utility knife to score the tie, then pop off the excess. RAYMO, suggest holding the dull side of the knife to cut the tie wrap.
Get one of these Xcelite 4" small flush wire cutters and you won't have this problem. They cut the zip tie so close nothing that can cut you sticks out. I have never used the needle nose pliers supplied in this kit but hey the pliers were part of the package.
emuyshondt
Well Known Member
Too bad I didn't see the response earlier. I'd be interested in getting some of these ties, but not 1000. Maybe 100 or less, preferably in assorted sizes. If anyone is interested in a group buy, maybe we can buy a 1,000 piece package and split them up.
BillL
Well Known Member
I bought a 1000 4" T&B ty-raps and weighed out 200 in several bags, send a PM if interested and I will look up the cost share in the mean time. I will get the specs, but they are stainless tangs, good temp, and UV protected. They are black.
PS I do recommend a proper tool for installation. You can not possibly get them as tight and cleanly cut as the eastwood tool. Metal and cheap too.
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FWIW, I bought a bag of 1000 of these when I bought my airplane just over 5 years ago. I just bought a second bag of 1000 this summer. I'd say i've used about half of them myself in 5 years, a lot of which went to cleaning up wiring under the panel and in the engine compartment. The rest i've given out a few at a time whenever someone at the airport needs some, or used them at home for various things. They're quite handy.
emuyshondt
Well Known Member
PM sent, Bill.
