Airframe Logbook Question

My RV-6A is the first aircraft that I have owned. I am wondering where to make logbook entries. When I changed my oil, I put a note in the engine logbook, but nothing in the airframe logbook.

Is there anyplace that I can find guidance on what types of things should be placed in each lobook?

Thanks,

Larry

Oil change is an engine thing, so it only goes in the engine logbook. Any changes to the airframe will go in the airframe logbook. Prop logbook is the same. A
the annual Condition Inspection goes in all 3 with pertinent info and work performed in the appropriate logbook for the work performed.

Thanks Jesse.

For experimental, there is not any regulation that requires a separate log book for airframe, engine, and propeller. All entries could be in the same log book if you preferred it that way.

There is also no FAR requirement for a separate condition inspection entry for airframe, engine, and propeller.
Most people with an E-AB or E-LSA certified RV have operating limitations that give an example log entry that reads...

?I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with.....?

Note that the example states "Aircraft", which encompasses all of its parts with one logbook entry.

If you want to maintain your logs the way the certified world generally does, you would only make entries in the engine log for work directly related to the core engine itself and what it takes to make it run (magnetos, carb./fuel injection, fuel pump, etc).
Entries for all other parts like starter, alt., baffling, hoses, oil cooler, exhaust, and other stuff mounted on the firewall would go in the airframe log book.

I realize AC43-9 is for certified aircraft, but the guidance can be utilized for AB Experimental aircraft maintenance records.

Note that the FAA usually uses the term "Maintenance Records" not "Log Book"

You just need to keep the information, which can be done in any way convenient to you as long as the signature/date requirements are met.

A mix of a traditional log book for main entries, with the entries sometimes shortened, and a separate three ring binder for detailed information is one way to go.

rvbuilder2002 said:

For experimental, there is not any regulation that requires a separate log book for airframe, engine, and propeller. All entries could be in the same log book if you preferred it that way.

There is also no FAR requirement for a separate condition inspection entry for airframe, engine, and propeller.
Most people with an E-AB or E-LSA certified RV have operating limitations that give an example log entry that reads...

?I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] in accordance with.....?

Note that the example states "Aircraft", which encompasses all of its parts with one logbook entry.

If you want to maintain your logs the way the certified world generally does, you would only make entries in the engine log for work directly related to the core engine itself and what it takes to make it run (magnetos, carb./fuel injection, fuel pump, etc).
Entries for all other parts like starter, alt., baffling, hoses, oil cooler, exhaust, and other stuff mounted on the firewall would go in the airframe log book.

Click to expand...

All very true. However, keeping the entirety of the aircraft records becomes cumbersome at some point. What do you do if you remove a serviceable engine or prop, and want to resell it? Yes, a trip to Kinko's will solve that problem, but it make your practices look shoddy (IMHO).
Keeping separate logbooks is the way to go, and especially in the fashion that Gil outlined.

jetjok said:

Keeping separate logbooks is the way to go

Click to expand...

I agree.

I wasn't recommending using just one log book... just pointing out that there is no regulation requiring use of more than one.

az_gila said:

Note that the FAA usually uses the term "Maintenance Records" not "Log Book"

You just need to keep the information, which can be done in any way convenient to you as long as the signature/date requirements are met.

A mix of a traditional log book for main entries, with the entries sometimes shortened, and a separate three ring binder for detailed information is one way to go.

Click to expand...

The key point for a airframe log, engine log and propeller log is as someone before stated, so that when you remove the propeller and exchange or sell it, you can send the maintenance records for that item along with it. Typically most of us don't have an "airframe" log, but an aircraft log, engine and propeller logs. I only put information specific to the engine in the engine log, like changing a cylinder or something like that. No rules require specific data in any specific logbook though.

keeping a second set of records is not a bad idea. it reflects much of the value of the plane.

Garmin Pilot IFR Currency - Calulator/Logic

Been using Garmin Pilot Logbook for a while now and find there seems to be a problem in the application's ability to determine IFR Currency.

I have contacted Garmin Pilot help line now for two weeks and am not getting an answer to the problem.

Below is a copy of the last email to Garmin, has anyone else encountered the issue? Ryan is the Garmin help line person.

Ryan, Please forward this response to the developers and importantly to someone who understands the FAA regulations that apply to IFR currency.

My Garmin Pilot shows me IFR current, but the "Last Met:" date as 01-Oct-17 which is not correct. 01-Oct-17 is the date of my Proficiency Endorsement. Not the date where my Currency expires. The Currency is re-validated every-time a pilot completes 6 approaches within a six month period.

I have flown six approaches in the past in the last 4 months. The approaches I flew on 7-Nov-17 should have set my new currency Last Met: date to that date and the 6 month window should role forward from that day.

Below I have included the FAA FARs that spells out IFR currency. As you'll see, currency is defined as experience of flight in the preceding six months NOT when the last proficiency check was performed, in fact proficiency checks are a way for a pilot to regain currency if they did not complete the required 6 approaches in the preceding 6 months.

Ryan, thanks for your time in helping set me straight or fixing the Garmin Pilot Application logic on currency, whichever it ends up being.

Steve

"
Instrument Currency Requirements
61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:

For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument privileges sought --
At least six instrument approaches;
Holding procedures; and
Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation systems.
For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in a glider, performed and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions --
At least 3 hours of instrument time in flight, of which 1 1/2 hours may be acquired in an airplane or a glider if no passengers are to be carried; or
3 hours of instrument time in flight in a glider if a passenger is to be carried.

(d) Instrument proficiency check. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person who does not meet the instrument experience requirements of paragraph (c) of this section within the prescribed time, or within 6 calendar months after the prescribed time, may not serve as pilot in command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR until that person passes an instrument proficiency check consisting of a representative number of tasks required by the instrument rating practical test.

You can't go wrong maintaing your records they way that they have always been done for "Certified" aircraft. Individual logbooks for airframe, engine and propeller are a smart choice, including the extra time it takes to prepare copies on your computer and paste them in the books, it comes across as organized and professional. When it comes to engine logs, be sure to include engine total time (not necessarilly SMOH), time STOH, and component times if known. When adding or removing equipment, list P/N's and S/N's if applicable. A listing of ALL S/B's is also nice, noting their applicability, compliance and next due.
DON'T confuse matters with separate tach/Hobbs times, decide which one you want to use and stick with it. Tach times are generally 15-20% LESS than hobbs times, this can add up over the life of a 2000 hr. Engine!
All of this will pay off in the long run, whether you keep your RV or pass it on to another lucky pilot.

With regards to the previous post: nothing helps sell a used aircraft like easily read and complete records. I personally keep separate books and binders for engine, airframe, prop, oil analysis and annual condition inspections. This shows attention to detail and honesty.