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Aerobatic training in your RV

For those interested in unusual attitude recovery and/or aerobatic training in your RV, I would suggest you contact Deirdre Gurry, based at WDG, Woodring Airport in Enid, OK. I had a great experience yesterday with her training me in my RV-6. I learned a lot and I understand my airplane much better. She owns an RV-6 and is a very capable aerobatics instructor. Please don't try to train yourself to do aerobatics.

www.aviaspire.com
 
Be VERY careful doing 2-up aerobatics in RV-6. Aerobatic gross weight is 1375 lbs.
 
G Limits over aerobatic gross weight

Be VERY careful doing 2-up aerobatics in RV-6. Aerobatic gross weight is 1375 lbs.

Mel,
We are all familiar with "gross weight" and G limits BELOW "aerobatic gross weight". Are there any published G limits for weights between aerobatic gross weight and gross weight?
 
Parachutes??

Parachutes are required per the FARs when doing aerobatics with more than the required crew on-board. There is an exemption for cfi?s teaching ?...any maneuver required for any rating...? but that would not include anything inverted.
 
I don't want an argument about if you should or shouldn't wear a parachute, in my opinion it is not a requirement in this training condition. But for me personally I would wear one if I thought I could actually get out of the airplane in case of structural failure. I have the tilt up canopy with the hinge release, but I do not think I could get out of the RV-6 in a situation were the airplane was uncontrollable. So I elected to not wear a chute. To each his own.
 
Canopy

In the recent Midget Mustang fatal the departing canopy apparently took off half the horizontal and all of the vertical tail. Where the canopy goes depends on speed and attitude. I lost a canopy on the Sukhoi SU29 at around cruise speed. The canopy did not touch any part of the ,airplane when it departed. I was in the front and was not injured. The pilot in the back was hit in the face by the canopy handle. Another SU 29 lost the canopy with the pilot flying solo. He was not injured. The canopy landed intact and was reinstalled on the airplane.
 
Parachutes

All LEGITIMATE aerobatic schools in the US require parachutes for all
Aerobatic training. You may find a benovelent Fed that accepts a passenger as a required crew member but it is more likely if you are caught you will incur anything from a formal reprimand to a suspension.
 
I don't want an argument about if you should or shouldn't wear a parachute, in my opinion it is not a requirement in this training condition. But for me personally I would wear one if I thought I could actually get out of the airplane in case of structural failure. I have the tilt up canopy with the hinge release, but I do not think I could get out of the RV-6 in a situation were the airplane was uncontrollable. So I elected to not wear a chute. To each his own.

There is no argument and your opinion is not relevant. You are in violation of FARs doing aerobatics without chutes with more than one person in the airplane. Period! If we each decided which rules to follow there would be no point in having rules. The RV community can only be respected if we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Please do your part.
 
There is no argument and your opinion is not relevant. You are in violation of FARs doing aerobatics without chutes with more than one person in the airplane. Period! If we each decided which rules to follow there would be no point in having rules. The RV community can only be respected if we hold ourselves to a higher standard. Please do your part.

Amen brother! I don?t know how many times this discussion has come up, but there is no gray area here. We need to have standards. Being ?experimental? gives us no latitude with part 91 regs. When you violate these regulated limitations, you you put all of us in jeopardy. Please be more careful out there.
 
Chutes

There is one exception and that is a CFI providing spin training to a pilot who is a candidate for their initial CFI check ride.
 
There is one exception and that is a CFI providing spin training to a pilot who is a candidate for their initial CFI check ride.

This is close. The rule is that parachutes are not required when a cfi is giving instruction on a maneuver required by the regulations for a rating. There is no requirement that the person receiving instruction be a ?candidate?, there is no such thing in the regulations. So a cfi can give spin instruction to anyone, without parachutes, because it is required for a cfi rating.
 
"there is no argument...", "we must have standards..."

both true statements that could also apply to someone driving 2mph over the speed limit on an empty road in good conditions, but no cop would cite such a violation.

You can watch many YouTube videos of people doing 2-up acro without chutes, including one of Van's chief instructor demonstrating loops and rolls to a YouTube blogger.

Point being, there IS a 'grey area' where enforcement agencies use judgement, though wouldn't admit it, and maybe simple acro like loops and rolls done by experienced pilots would fall into this category.

But if something goes wrong, even if you're "only 2mph over the limit", be prepared for the consequences.

And don't advertise it to the world since that will force the regulatory agencies' hand.
 
FAA

What most don't understand is time and distance. If you are more than 100 miles from the nearest FSDO office your nearest public airport may only get a visit from the FAA once or twice a year. A private airport near zero chance of a visit. So the reality of a violation for anything that does not involve damage or injury or damage is near zero. So don't brag about or publish videos of the violation you committed yesterday and you will be ok. I could probably write a book about very well known people who have committed gross violations of FAR's. Let's use a hypothetical: the weather is 200 and 1. You are driving down the interstate and a small red biplane passed over in the opposite direction. Let's further say that the biplane has no transponder or ADS B. How in the world is anyone going to catch that person. The reality is that over 99 percent of the time the FAA doesn't even find out about these violations. As the manager of a FSDO office told me years ago "lots of red biplanes, don't go back to the same place twice". The If you're inclined to do questionable things just do them out in the tules, solo, don't television videos and don't brag about it on the Internet.
 
What most don't understand is time and distance. If you are more than 100 miles from the nearest FSDO office your nearest public airport may only get a visit from the FAA once or twice a year. A private airport near zero chance of a visit. So the reality of a violation for anything that does not involve damage or injury or damage is near zero. So don't brag about or publish videos of the violation you committed yesterday and you will be ok. I could probably write a book about very well known people who have committed gross violations of FAR's. Let's use a hypothetical: the weather is 200 and 1. You are driving down the interstate and a small red biplane passed over in the opposite direction. Let's further say that the biplane has no transponder or ADS B. How in the world is anyone going to catch that person. The reality is that over 99 percent of the time the FAA doesn't even find out about these violations. As the manager of a FSDO office told me years ago "lots of red biplanes, don't go back to the same place twice". The If you're inclined to do questionable things just do them out in the tules, solo, don't television videos and don't brag about it on the Internet.

Point being, there IS a 'grey area' where enforcement agencies use judgement, though wouldn't admit it, and maybe simple acro like loops and rolls done by experienced pilots would fall into this category.

But if something goes wrong, even if you're "only 2mph over the limit", be prepared for the consequences.

And don't advertise it to the world since that will force the regulatory agencies' hand.

One says it's ok if nobody can see you because you're far away. The other says it's ok to do it if they don't catch you and it's a grey area.

If it's a grey area then there's nothing to force and nothing to hide. If it's black and white (like this Regulation is posted anywhere you read it) then there's no need to force anything or to hide far away to do it, it's illegal.

The analogy of driving 2 miles per hour over the limit is doesn't work here. I wouldn't stop someone going over the speed limit if my radar says they're over by 2 miles but that's not because the law is a grey area, it's because the electronics are not perfect and may have some deviations called margin of error. If a cop is driving with their cruise control at the speed limit and you pass by him you will get stopped 9 out of 10 times no matter who the law enforcement officer is (one cop might not stop you but it could be because he's doing something more important or because he's just lazy).

I always taught my daughter that when in doubt to act as if I was there in person. In that same manner if you wouldn't do it in front of the FAA then you know it's not a grey area. Then there's this little thing called INTEGRITY :

"Integrity is the practice of being honest and showing a consistent and uncompromising adherence to strong moral and ethical principles and values. In ethics, integrity is regarded as the honesty and truthfulness or accuracy of one's actions."

And the best show of integrity is what I've lived by all of my life and it's even simpler than that long explanation above: do the right thing even when nobody is watching.

Just the way I live my life and my simple opinion, nothing more.
 
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