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RV's in Class B airspace

n700jl

n700jl

Well Known Member
Question? Can you fly your RV in Class B airspace such as St Louis or Chicago without prior permission to do so? Or is there just no way to do it?
 
RVs in bravo have the same requirements as any other aircraft - you have to be cleared by ATC over the radio to enter the bravo. There is no additional restriction on experimentals.
 
n700jl said:
... without prior permission to do so? ...
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If your question is "Do I need to call the control tower 48 hours in advance, or notify the local FSDO, or send a certified letter 10 business days prior to my proposed flight into Class B airspace?" the answer is no.

If your question is "Do I need to establish radio communications with the controlling authority of the Class B airspace (Approach/Center/Tower) prior to crossing into their airspace?" the answer is yes.

The usual method is to contact Approach/Center/Tower 10 - 15 miles away from the Class B airspace and notify them of your location and intentions. When they say "Cleared into Class B airspace", then you can enter their airspace. Being an experimental has nothing to do with it.
 
The simple answer is that RVs are just like any other aircraft, experimental or otherwise. Check the FAR/AIM for Class B flights. The rules are the same in your RV-9A as they are in your Cessna 172.
 
Atlanta?

Whenever I fly west, Atlanta doesn't allow me in their Class B, even tho' I'm on flight following, going to an airport south of Atl. ..they must be too busy.

Best,
 
I keep my RV-7A at St Pete Clearwater airport under the Tampa Class B airspace. In order to go east, I have to get Class B clearance unless I want to have to fly around it and have never had an issue. I always identify my plane as experimental and they are very accommodating. I've flown to Atlanta and likewise they've been willing to transition me through workload permitting.
 
pierre smith said:
Whenever I fly west, Atlanta doesn't allow me in their Class B, even tho' I'm on flight following, going to an airport south of Atl. ..they must be too busy.

Best,
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A lot has to do with the work load, and traffic. Kansas City is what I call a "slow" class B. They have never refused me in and are very accommodating. On the other hand Phoenix is very busy and I always get the "Remain Clear of Class Bravo" greeting. There are so many airports in the valley they just don't have time, or space. No problem, I just avoid it.
 
For DFW Class B

I've also noted that often it has to do with how you sound on the radio.
If you sound professional and as you know what you're doing, you'll probably get the "Cleared into Bravo."
If you sound unsure and/or nervous, you might get the "Remain clear of Bravo" message.
Of course traffic load has a lot to do with it too.
 
I have had my RV in five (5) different Bravo airspace around the US after being Cleared on the radio. I was VFR with flight following on three (3) of the flights.
 
Jon,

I just flew through the SFO Class B (with clearance ;)) yesterday, heading into San Carlos (KSQL). There were actually 3 RVs on the frequency, one of whom I chased all the way into SQL (we met and chatted on the ground).

My experience has been similar to the others. Call ATC early, sound professional (I give a courtesy call with "position, altitude, with request", and then make your request (in my case, "VFR flight following direct San Carlos, Class Bravo clearance"). That's just one example call.

Getting clearance into San Fransisco and San Diego Class B has been easier than getting an LA Class B clearance in my experience. Down in LA, I've almost always been told I had to transition via one of the VFR corridors, so I normally go over or around. Leaving OSH headed south then east, I stayed clear of the Chicago Class B (around then above), but used Flight Following, as I fly through there a lot at work, and know how busy Chigago's airspace is. I'd be interested to hear if folks get Chicago Class B clearances easily. Atlanta and Dallas are what I'd call very busy Class Bs too, and it sounds like it just depends (good to hear the experiences there, for future use!)

It can be done, just be on your game. Yesterday, when I first checked in, after a few minutes I was asked to do a 360 because of crossing Osprey traffic out of Travis AFB (first time I've seen one in flight). Then on the next freq, as I descended towards SQL, still staying under Class B, but with the lower sectors looming up fast, I had to gently nudge the controller about my Class B clearance (she was busy with other aircraft). Got the clearance just before I would have turned to parallel the lower boundary, and pressed on. Just know where ya are!

Worked out pretty slick, getting to go direct!! :)

Cheers,
Bob
 
Looks like my post got nuked...??? Don't really know why, it was a true statement. Maybe the Moderator can give me a heads up on the rational. Anyway, Bravo is not hard to get clearance to fly into and communicating your intentions clear and well stated will help. Again, I would not advise entering Bravo without clearance, you will be spending some time on the phone when you land at your destination. :)

Also, if you're in Phase 1, read your ops limitations for sure.
 
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pierre smith said:
Whenever I fly west, Atlanta doesn't allow me in their Class B, even tho' I'm on flight following, going to an airport south of Atl. ..they must be too busy.

Best,
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you have to request through the bravo and it's all in how you ask, they have a typical corridor over the top of the field at 4000-5000 they will usually send you at

it helps to be IFR as well, then again, i've been over the field at 1200AGL in the helo, that was a blast
 
craigvince said:
The simple answer is that RVs are just like any other aircraft, experimental or otherwise. Check the FAR/AIM for Class B flights. The rules are the same in your RV-9A as they are in your Cessna 172.
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But ....
I wish I had a photo from the 767 with the 5 RVs on left base for 28L while the 767 was on short final 28R :D
 
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5500 through ATL

I have found that ATL ATC will automatically say to stay out of class B, but if you ask to go "Over the top at 5500" they will then clear you into B. The only way they will let you cut through ATL airspace is if you are going over the top of Hartsfield. No just cutting the corner of B in atlanta.
 
pierre smith said:
Whenever I fly west, Atlanta doesn't allow me in their Class B, even tho' I'm on flight following, going to an airport south of Atl. ..they must be too busy.

Best,
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request 4500 over the top, north to south

they'll usually do it right over the approach numbers of KATL

If you ask to "transition the bravo" you get mixed results, I've found it best to go ahead and line myself up on a southern heading, approaching or near 4,500, then call them up- they typically let me continue on

i believe it goes back to the old VFR corridors that were on the TAC before they decomissioned those
 
The next question is how about above the top of the class B?

Dallas's top is 11,000. A year ago, I was at 12,000 on an IFR flight right over the top of DFW and they rerouted me. I almost canceled IFR, told them I was climbing 500 ft and if they wanted to continue to talk to me, I would stay on flight following. I questioned the controller and he said that if I wanted to go to 18,000 I could continue on the current clearance route.

Problem is there was a solid deck I needed to penetrate at my destination so I re-routed and added 20 minutes to the flight.
 
ATL's runways are east/west also.

So there is a lot of vertical activity and big iron turning at relatively low altitudes.

There is a vfr corridor North/South over the city at 5,000 feet.
 
RV6_flyer said:
I have had my RV in five (5) different Bravo airspace around the US after being Cleared on the radio. I was VFR with flight following on three (3) of the flights.
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Thanks to mentoring on my first cross country flights by Gary Sobek, I flown in (been cleared into) all Bravo airspace except for about 5: Honolulu, Andrews, Detroit, Minneapolis-St. Paul and Newark :D Rosie

PS: 500th post...finally!
 
Personally I avoid Class B VFR corridors. I fly over or around Class B unless I am cleared into it.
 
Actually, you can go North to South or vice versa in ATL at 5500 if you ask (traffic volumn permitting). You will be vectored to the approach side of the runway. The corridor is 5 miles wide. 5000 and 6000 is reserved for IFR that is used all of the time. Class B is set up for Jet arrivals and departures into the primary airport. Most of the busier class B airspace controllers will keep you clear of the Bravo if you are overflying, VFR or IFR. How do I know this, I worked in ATL for 10 years. I am currently in CLT. Operations Manager.
 
Tell the tower you're experimental

How many of us adhere to (or recall) FAR 91.319(d)(3)? Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.

On first call to the tower, I'll call Experimental RV 613G and after they get the call sign, switch to 13 Gulf. Sometimes saying RV at that time causes confusion, but if you don't tell them you're an RV, they're going to ask you what type of airplane you are.

Rick Grenwis
 
grenwis said:
How many of us adhere to (or recall) FAR 91.319(d)(3)? Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.

On first call to the tower, I'll call Experimental RV 613G and after they get the call sign, switch to 13 Gulf. Sometimes saying RV at that time causes confusion, but if you don't tell them you're an RV, they're going to ask you what type of airplane you are.

Rick Grenwis
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The requirement to inform an operating control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft is also in everyone's operating limitations and the operating limitation are a part of the 8130-7 pink Special Airworthiness Certificate and must be carried in the aircraft.

I always use XYZ Tower, RV 157GS EXPERIMENTAL. and then tell them my request or PATER. (PATER - Position Altitude Type Equipment Request)

When is the last time that everyone read their Operating Limitations?
 
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And THAT is when it will get interesting for me! (See signature for why)

grenwis said:
How many of us adhere to (or recall) FAR 91.319(d)(3)? Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.

On first call to the tower, I'll call Experimental RV 613G and after they get the call sign, switch to 13 Gulf. Sometimes saying RV at that time causes confusion, but if you don't tell them you're an RV, they're going to ask you what type of airplane you are.

Rick Grenwis
Click to expand...
 
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