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Group Project: Designing the RV-13

N941WR

Legacy Member
This exercise is kind of like what Ford with the Edsel. (Please forgive me Van's for making that comparison.) Thus calling it the -13 might be the correct number.

If Van's was to ask us, the builders, to help design his next plane what would you ask for? Maybe someone with better graphic skills than I can draw up what we come up with. (Van's isn't asking so please don't call or write them about this.)

My desire would be for a high wing bush plane.

Thus I was thinking they could take the -9 wing and hang a fuselage under it. Keep the -9 tail cone and empennage as this wouldn't be an acro bird. Of course the fuselage section would have to be deep to accommodate the center section and still give you head room.

The center section would be different because you don't need as much dihedral since it is a high wing, which may allow for a completely different center section design.

It would be a tail dragger so Van's could continue to use their engine mounts.

The baggage compartment would continue back one more bay so there would need to be a change in floor. Or just design in a package shelf above the elevator bell crank like some builders are doing.

I'm thinking there would be a lot commonality of parts, so production costs wouldn't be that high. The trick would be in cutting the longeron so you would have a regular door.

Oh, and since this is a two place airplane, I would like to see a useful load around 750 lbs. Oh, I already have that in my -9.

The family of Van's bush planes could even include a four place version based on the -10 wing and tail group.
 
Make mine a "Stretch-9"

I have expressed my "ideal" here before. I want a bit more room for baggage/gear/occasional third passenger - but I don't want something quite as big/expensive as an RV-10. So - stretch out an RV-9... make a smallish back seat. Power it with an O-360. Basically like a Kit-Tiger or a Zodiac CH-640 with sticks and more style.

If you want it high-wing... it doesn't matter to me. Sounds like an Aluminum Glasair Sportsman 2+2. ;)

DJ
 
I agree with the stretched -9. I would love to be able to build an airplan with *just* enough room for a 3rd person, say <150#. I'm sure others would be up for it. Most people with one young child are only financially able to build something that is less costly than a -10. I think it'd be a hit, if it could be well-equipped for <$100K.

Mike
 
I was writing about a stretched RV9 and see I was beat! But, yeah, something will a good sized baggage compartment with a real baggage door to make it essy to get stuff in and out of, or maybe a third seat. Even something with a canopy like the RV10 to help keep the sun out and with a real passenger door. Crawling over the fuse to get in and out gets more difficult as one's age increases. All of that would decrease the total performance, but I would have been tempted to go for it.
 
rv-13 screamer

My RV-13 would be a Harmon Rocket 3 with retractable gear. It would have the same airfoil and wing plan form as the P-51. TIO-540 for power. You could use a set of GlassAir3 main gear or the gear off of a Piper Malibu. I would race it at reno. Hey you engineers, how fast would it go on 400 hp?

Now I have to go take a cold shower!
 
Could we go with jet engine(s) or is that a step too far on this project ? :)
Hey, it is your fantasy. You can dream up anything you want.

BTW, I have already worked up some preliminary numbers on this using the EVO wing. It looks very doable.
 
Amateur-Builts don't have to be "kits"!

Amateur-built aircraft may be of your own design and may be built from scratch. If no one offers a kit that you like, why not design your own? You know, they all started out that way. Get back to "REAL Grass Roots"!
 
I'd like to see something used with the M14. Maybe like a Radial Rocket (maybe one day I will call Milt and buy a kit) lite but in aluminum or a 3-4 seater bush type aircraft.

Give me 10 years, some more folding money and I'll build one you guys can copy. :)
 
I'd like to see something designed around the Chevy LSx V8 engine. Six place, top speed of 180-200 knots. A vegas-runner, ski-trip ship, or shopping freighter. Reasons for this design spec are inherently selfish: I need something that can take two people up to wine country and come back safely with 10 cases of wine in the back, once a year. The rest of the year's missions involve moving people and things to fun locations, or plundering remote shopping districts.
 
Take an RV-12, make it tandem and the option for taildragger. Keep the 912 and pulled rivets and LSA compliant :)

I still like 120 knots at 5 g.p.h.!!

In the meantime, I'll still wait for the -12 ;)
 
I have expressed my "ideal" here before. I want a bit more room for baggage/gear/occasional third passenger - but I don't want something quite as big/expensive as an RV-10. So - stretch out an RV-9... make a smallish back seat. Power it with an O-360. Basically like a Kit-Tiger or a Zodiac CH-640 with sticks and more style.

If you want it high-wing... it doesn't matter to me. Sounds like an Aluminum Glasair Sportsman 2+2. ;)

DJ


I was gonna post this very thread earlier.....

I too like the the idea of a stretched 7/9. Enough room for a third soul or more likely Mountain bikes (2). Have a faster wing, retractable gear or tri/ tail dragger.....

I would like to stuff a Conti TIO 360 in it ala a Mooney 252 (the MB motor) or even a turbo normalized 390.

Point is a real cruiser, 200+ kts would be prefect.... Plus a have a little bit of acro capability for fun.....
 
RV 13

almost a Sportsman?
I would like a 1959 Cessna 172 - 175, taildragger conversion, 180/ 200 hp lycoming. Not quite a C 180.....
There is a kit kinda like this, it is out of Canada. for get the name,??
The Bear Hawk is a prospect. 2+ 2 high wing bush plane/ camper.
I think Vans is not going to make a kit like this. The ones out there are not selling fast enough.
I have put my money in this...........

My answer was my Super Cub kit. A North Star 180 by
www.Customflightltd.com almost, my perfect second airplane , 2+2 is the only thing I would like to have. The fabric was is not a show stopper for me.
But, the C 172 with a 180 hp and tail wheel conversion is the bush plane I would like. I think it has looks and performance. Just being certified makes it a no go for now.
 
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I'd like to see something designed around the Chevy LSx V8 engine. Six place, top speed of 180-200 knots. A vegas-runner, ski-trip ship, or shopping freighter. Reasons for this design spec are inherently selfish: I need something that can take two people up to wine country and come back safely with 10 cases of wine in the back, once a year. The rest of the year's missions involve moving people and things to fun locations, or plundering remote shopping districts.
John,

Take a look at the Sherpa. It holds eight people and lots of "stuff". Of course, finding a hangar to keep in might be an issue.


As for the Glastar Sportsman, way to much fiberglass for me.
 
Reworked RV 10, with conventional gear.

Anybody out there remember the "Prowler" that George Morris designed???
With the modern computers and manufacturing equipment that Vans has, it sure would be a nice kit to resurrect/update.
 
Take an RV-12, make it tandem and the option for taildragger. Keep the 912 and pulled rivets and LSA compliant :)

I still like 120 knots at 5 g.p.h.!!

In the meantime, I'll still wait for the -12 ;)

Yup, LSA, tandem, low wing, tail dragger with removeable/folding wings for the trailering option. It would stand out in the crowd of boring LSA clones you see nowadays.
 
Future Van's projects

#1 Add "A" to the RV-12
#2 Now make the RV-12
#3 RV-13, RV-9 wings on an all metal high wing
#4 RV-15, tandem LSA
#5 RV-14, Non hershey bar wing on the RV-7
#6 Pigs would of course be flying by now.
 
I'd be happy if a miracle happened and Van finishes his RV-11 project and offered a kit for the (30?) of us who would like to buy it ;-)
 
I'll take a single engine plane that can carry a car. My final destination is hardly ever an airport. Would work out great for those that want to pillage wine country or remote shopping districts too! :D
 
One more shot...

I'll take a single engine plane that can carry a car. My final destination is hardly ever an airport. Would work out great for those that want to pillage wine country or remote shopping districts too! :D

And while we're at it, could we make it LSA compliant?
 
Has anybody else wondered why Vans never offered a tandem version of the RV9? Would seem that the 8 fuse and 9 wings and tail could easily be mated up and almost every part needed would already be on the shelves. Maybe not something everyone would want, but the rollout cost would be very low. Instead of building tail and wings before deciding 9 or 9A you could still be open to go side/side or tandem.
 
I'd be happy if a miracle happened and Van finishes his RV-11 project and offered a kit for the (30?) of us who would like to buy it ;-)
I was thinking the same thing :) The largest problem will probably be to have enough shop space to build those long wings. I would probably like it to be more like the RF4D, shorter span, aerobatic and with a 1800 Sauer instead of the Jabiru.
 
I second (or third, or fourth) the idea of a high-wing bush plane. If such had been available (in aluminum), I would have jumped at the opportunity, particularly if it had reasonable fuel consumption (O-320 or O360).

greg
 
Gotta watch that helium. A friend put it in the tires of his 7 and it always wants to turn upside down!

Bob Kelly
 
High Wing Bush Type Plane

My vote is also for a high wing bush type plane. Something similar to the Sportsman 2+2. In other words a 2 place plus lots of baggage or maybe a little person or two in the back. 180 or 200 HP with low speed performance better than the RV-9 and cruise performance in the 160 - 170 mph range or better. Oh, and it has to look good too! Life is too short for ugly airplanes!:D

Brian
 
In case anyone is counting

On the off chance that anyone at Van's is keeping count, I agree with Jay Pratt and others here that an airplane the size of a 170, but with more horsepower, would be a great fit for my mission profiles. Highwing, 180-200 hp, good low speed characteristics, 2+2 concept.
 
Rv-13

Seems like everyone wants a high wing bushplane... but I have to say that I would rather see something completely against the van's philosophy, like a twin engine RV-10 with beefed up gear and lots of cargo room & lifting capacity. Maybe 2 O-360's for power; Besides that would be much more edsel-ish in the long run.
 
John,

Take a look at the Sherpa. It holds eight people and lots of "stuff". Of course, finding a hangar to keep in might be an issue.

As for the Glastar Sportsman, way to much fiberglass for me.

Wow! I could fly a sound system to Burning Man with this thing. Holy smokes!
Kinda sparse on details, but one of Jess Myers' V8 plants should slot right into this thing.

Of course, the trick is convincing the Ministry of Transportation (read:wife) that it's necessary.
 
High wing/Low wing...

Well... I'm pushing for a stretch-9 as mentioned. If the wing ends up on top... OK. But I'd just as soon have a sleek low wing.

For my "second" plane... I like Mike's idea... a tandem, LSA, removable wing, aerobatic little fun bird. :D

DJ
 
I'd like to see a 4-place economy twin. Maybe a -10 with an O-290 on each wing?
I'm not sure if you are pulling my leg or not but this would give you less performance than a standard RV-10.

The reason is your HP total would only be 270 HP but your drag and weight would go up significantly. With one engine out, the other would simply be a glide extender.

With both engines running, it would probably be slower in cruise, climb slower, and have less useful load than an RV-10 with a single (I)O-540. There are two areas where it would excel at, when compared to the -10. One would possibly be fuel consumption and the other would be maintenance. Oh, I wouldn't want to support a twin.
 
Wow! I could fly a sound system to Burning Man with this thing. Holy smokes!
Kinda sparse on details, but one of Jess Myers' V8 plants should slot right into this thing.

Of course, the trick is convincing the Ministry of Transportation (read:wife) that it's necessary.

Did you say the dreaded auto engine and liquid cooling thing?
 
Reworked RV 10, with conventional gear.

Anybody out there remember the "Prowler" that George Morris designed???
With the modern computers and manufacturing equipment that Vans has, it sure would be a nice kit to resurrect/update.

I'm with you Mike - a tailwheel RV 10 would be awesome!
 
RV 337

How about taking a 337 general design, move the engines out on the wings--Subarus of course---and then have the front engine bay for bags and the rear to accomodate a full size street motorcycle, 2 dirt bikes, or a jet ski for the float version.

There is a guy in Nashville that has a 337 body kit that he is pushing for "the ambitious homebuilder"

Happy New Year everyone!!
 
RV13

OK I can't resist, here's my 2 cents.

Revive the 4 place Derringer Vans style and replace the O360's with Thielhert diesels. 160-230HP on each side burning 5-8GPH each. Fast, IFR, Night capable with Fadec fnctionality.
http://www.airstuff.com/PPJune79.html

Anyone know who bought the rights?
 
High Wings? Twins?!!

Come come now folks...all this talk of high wing bush planes, twins, etc...from Vans?

Would you really expect Ferrari to design your next station wagon?!?;):p
 
Maybe not the Italians........

but Porsche has a twin turbo Cayenne, MB has a variety of rigs up to the AMG G55 and BMW has some pretty hot versions of the X5. All haul butt and lots of other stuff.

I hope my -8 proves more reliable than any of the Italian stuff I have owned and more like the German stuff.

With the load hauling capability it would give a new dimension to "total performance". Being able to drop a bike, jetski, kayaks, or whatever out the back would make a lot of people smile.....
 
Back to the RV 82

That was hashed over before. A Twin Mustang type rig.

I still like the idea......
 
Stretched 9

I agree with Jeff R's comment about an RV-9a with an RV-10 like canopy - either gull doors or car style (ala the Cirrus) would be great. In fact, I've thought about this before but can't see a way around the structural changes that would need to be made to the upper fuse longerons in order to shorten the step over from the wing to the inside of the cockpit. Definetly not a homebrew type of modification.

For those who have built a RV-6/7/9 bubble canopy (either tipper or slider) and who also have experience with the RV 10, would you say that its fiberglass cabin/canopy is less work than was your other bubble canopy?

Happy New Year to all
Scott
 
For those who have built a RV-6/7/9 bubble canopy (either tipper or slider) and who also have experience with the RV 10, would you say that its fiberglass cabin/canopy is less work than was your other bubble canopy?
Scott,

It is a LOT more work than the standard bubble. There is more fitting, more pin holes, more riviting, etc.
 
Scott,

It is a LOT more work than the standard bubble. There is more fitting, more pin holes, more riviting, etc.

From people I talk to, the whole fiberglass top on the RV-10 is a huge source of work... much more so then either a slider or a tip-up. A low wing is a low wing... you still are stepping down from the wing into a cockpit. Having climbed in and out of both RV-10's and Cirrus', I don't see a HUGE advantage of losing the "step-over". To me it is just different... but YMMV. I'd be happy leaving it with a slider/tip-up option.

For those who don't like all the green-house effect - there are the sliding shades that many use. There are also folks who have painted the canopy of RV's and Lightnings. You can see Lightnings done both ways on their home-page here: http://www.arionaircraft.com/

DJ
 
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