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View Poll Results: How important was the existence of VAF in your decision to build an RV.
It was not a factor. 95 43.98%
It was a factor. 26 12.04%
It was a significant factor. 84 38.89%
It was the most important factor. 11 5.09%
Voters: 216. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 12-12-2017, 06:24 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkervaski View Post
The forum is a huge marketing tool for Van's because it increases that comfort level and reduces the path of resistance by providing timely answers by experienced builders .. for free.
Bill, you've stepped into this thread and hit the nail on the head first up. There's no question that VAF is a massive marketing tool for Vans Aircraft on several levels. It's now probably their major marketing/sales tool....and it costs them nothing.

VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

So VAF is assisting Vans Aircraft to increase their sales and reduce their overheads at the same time. All for free.

However I have observed in my life that quite often people who get things for free do not fully appreciate the value of the gift they are receiving.
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  #52  
Old 12-12-2017, 07:27 PM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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So what's your objective with this thread? You seem to be striving make some sort of point but to what end?
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  #53  
Old 12-12-2017, 07:52 PM
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ColoRv ColoRv is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
Bill, you've stepped into this thread and hit the nail on the head first up. There's no question that VAF is a massive marketing tool for Vans Aircraft on several levels. It's now probably their major marketing/sales tool....and it costs them nothing.

VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

So VAF is assisting Vans Aircraft to increase their sales and reduce their overheads at the same time. All for free.

However I have observed in my life that quite often people who get things for free do not fully appreciate the value of the gift they are receiving.


Wow, you are laying it on pretty thick. If you look at it from the other side, I suspect Vans could very well wish this forum didn't exist. Quite a bit of the technical support you speak of in here is coming from guys who have no business giving advice at all. There are certainly some very talented and knowledgeable people in here....but they are outnumbered by those who have never completed a project of any kind but have very strong opinions none the less. Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it.

There is a lot of advertisement in here and that is where the income for this site comes from. Vans owes VAF nothing and VANS Air Force would not exist without using Vans name to promote it. Something many companies would not even allow. Let's not get too confused as to which one owes it's existence to the other.

You have a grand total of 216 poll responses at this point and nearly half of them have said VAF had no impact on their decision making. There are 10,000 flying RVs and lord knows how many builders pounding rivets. If you were to seriously analyze this poll with those numbers in mind....you wouldn't come to the conclusion you obviously have.
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Last edited by ColoRv : 12-12-2017 at 08:08 PM.
  #54  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:47 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.

So VAF is assisting Vans Aircraft to increase their sales and reduce their overheads at the same time. All for free.
How do you know that Van's is not compensating DR?
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  #55  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:06 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoRv View Post
Quite a bit of the technical support you speak of in here is coming from guys who have no business giving advice at all. Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it.
I note that you have made 856 posts on VAF since 2012. I'm really surprised that you continue to persevere with a technical forum that you consider is so flawed and has so little to offer.
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Last edited by Captain Avgas : 12-12-2017 at 10:14 PM.
  #56  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:33 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
I note that you have made 856 posts on VAF since 2012. I'm really surprised that you continue to persevere with a technical forum that you consider is so flawed and has so little to offer.
I don't think what he said was in any way implying it had no value.

In fact what he did say was pretty much 100% right on.
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  #57  
Old 12-12-2017, 10:51 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
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I suspect VAF is a double-edged sword for Vans. Even if it's not directly a factor in a builder or buyer choosing an RV, it helps to focus attention on RV's and third party suppliers. It's also a useful source of information (and misinformation) for most builders. Overall, that must be good for sales of RV's. On the other hand, Vans tech staff must get frustrated at times at the quality of some of the free advice that appears here and obviously do their best to monitor the content and correct where necessary. That's probably something they would rather not have to do.
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  #58  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:07 AM
-goose -goose is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
VAF will also be saving Vans Aircraft significant money by bearing the brunt of technical support. I wouldn't be surprised if VAF deals with over 90% of builders' technical queries these days. That will be reducing Vans payroll.
Bob I completely agree that this forum is an invaluable tool for deciding how to move forward with all sorts of challenges that arise during a build, once you learn how to filter out the valuable opinions from the rest that mean well. But as others have indicated, in no way can it constitute technical support. That can only be provided with any authority by Van's. In my opinion.
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  #59  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:50 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -goose View Post
Bob I completely agree that this forum is an invaluable tool for deciding how to move forward with all sorts of challenges that arise during a build, once you learn how to filter out the valuable opinions from the rest that mean well. But as others have indicated, in no way can it constitute technical support. That can only be provided with any authority by Van's. In my opinion.
It all depends on what you mean by "technical support". For structural issues I often respond to posters by advising them to go directly to Vans. But very few threads started on VAF are about genuine structural issues.

We need to get this in perspective. I have just looked through the entire first page of "Today's Posts". That's 62 threads and I doubt that there's one thread question that needed to be referred to Vans. There's not a serious "structural" question among the lot. However if VAF did not exist then Vans Aircraft would be bombarded with most of these questions. Every day they'd be getting hundreds of emails from builders asking trivial questions such as: "How do I stop getting smileys on my universal rivets". That would constipate Vans Support and I doubt that they would enjoy that.

I fully understand that there is a fair bit of dubious advice given on VAF and Users really need to be able to sort out the wheat from the chaff. I acknowledge that, but we should not lose sight of the fact that the upside to VAF massively outweighs the downside for both Users and Vans Aircraft.
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Last edited by Captain Avgas : 12-13-2017 at 03:55 AM.
  #60  
Old 12-13-2017, 04:19 AM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
I don't think what he said was in any way implying it had no value.

In fact what he did say was pretty much 100% right on.
Well, what ColoRV did in fact say was (and I'm quoting him verbatim):

"If you look at it from the other side, I suspect Vans could very well wish this forum didn't exist".

"Every time I've spoken to Vans tech support and mention this forum, they have very strong opinions that seem to differ from yours as to the value of it."

Scott, are you saying that these comment are "100% right on". Are you saying that Vans has low regard for VAF and perhaps even wishes this forum didn't exist. Surely not.
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Last edited by Captain Avgas : 12-13-2017 at 05:03 AM.
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