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Door position

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AviatorJ

Well Known Member
I received the finishing kit this week and have started on the dreaded doors. I am going to move through this section extremely slow to reduce the risk of messing up. The first problem I encountered was with the predimpled holes you're supposed to drill. Several weren't noticeable so it's not completely apparently with the alignment. Good news is at least the forward set was noticeable so I went with that.

I did the initial trimming and best lined up the doors halves accordingly. What can I do to ensure these are in the right place and I'm not going to encounter issues in the future... I'm sure I will anyhow.







My thought is to use duct tape and get the placement exactly right. Maybe measure the scribe line in reference to the cabin flange. Then work from the bottom up using the index holes in the fuselage, then match drill around the windows... then keep weight on the top and check the hinge orientation? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
Justin,

I was able to see the dimples on mine. But while the holes in the lower window flanges as well as the forward and aft index holes lined up, the index holes in the top portion of the window flange were at least 1/8"off between the inner and outer skins!

Upon checking with Van's I was given the following advice:
"Some of these dimples have never been correct from the beginning and its best to match the doors to the fuselage using the instructions and add a few new holes to hold the parts together once the correct shape/location has been determined. You will also find not all the index hole are correct to attach the door to the fuselage, in this case try and center the door as best you can in the opening and match drill."

As for locating the holes behind the doors in the fuselage, I found the best and most accurate way was to shine a bright light through the hole from inside the fuselage, which showed through the door skins and allowed me to drill them exactly. In a couple of cases the light was very faint, and in one case I had to turn my shop lights off to see it, but this worked a lot better for me than trying to use the scribed lines or measurements.

Good luck.
Dave M.
RV-10 Finishing Kit in-progress.
 
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While you are at it, I suggest you look at the center door latch that Sean sells. http://planearound.com/NEW-DOOR-180-KIT-NEW180.htm

If you do not do the door latch, at least give serious thought to using longer door gear racks instead of cutting them off as per the plans. And, use one of his door pin/striker kits.

Also, I highly recommend the wheel pant spacer units too. http://planearound.com/TWO-WHEEL-FAIRING-BRACKET-SPACERS-FOR-RV-10-WFSPCR.htm

If I were to build another 10, these would be mandatory for my build.
 
Door strap duplicators

Hi Justin,
I followed Rudi's method of making a door locator.
It held the door in 3D while you made many adjustments.
It was one of the best hints I had seen on how to do the doors.You were consistently and quickly able to put the door back on the same location for the many trim/ fit adjustments you must do to the doors.

http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=48930&start=255

Cheers
 
DRMA said:
"Some of these dimples have never been correct from the beginning and its best to match the doors to the fuselage using the instructions and add a few new holes to hold the parts together once the correct shape/location has been determined. You will also find not all the index hole are correct to attach the door to the fuselage, in this case try and center the door as best you can in the opening and match drill."
Click to expand...

That's not overly reassuring. I do have a hole duplicator so finding the fuselage holes isn't an issue.

I plan on getting the Planearound 3rd latch and also the wheel spacer. I'd have to check my list but there's about 8 or so things I need to buy for the finishing kit that I'm replacing... things like brakes, tires and other suggested items I've found on other build logs.

I'm going to read through Rudy's method and stand out in the garage staring a the doors. Will see what I come up with! Thanks
 
You're a week or two behind me.

Drilling and gluing the doors together isn't too bad. IMO, the directions in that area are are pretty good.

Find as many of the dimpled holes as you can, drill 'em, and see how well they match up. Mine didn't match that well, so I cleco'ed a couple of 'em and redrilled the rest to get the door halves to align and nest properly.

To locate (and subsequently transfer) the holes on the bottom and sides of the fuselage, I used the intersecting lines method, which worked well. Much better (IMO) than a hole finder. I've never been satisfied with my results with a hole finder.

One caveat - make sure that when you drill and subsequently glue the door halves that you use good cleco's. I have one void around the corner of a window where I must have used old cleco's when I glued the door and the cleco's didn't pull things together well enough. I'll fill the void and it won't be a problem, but it is a pitfall to avoid.

I'd suggest just following the instructions in this area. They seem to work well...
 
I did mine yesterday

Hi,

Another data point. I just finished trimming the doors (yesterday) and have hung them on hinges (today).

For me none of the window marks made sense, but the forward and aft holes positioned it perfectly as far as I can tell so far.

After gluing, and cutting along the scribe line on the outside of the the door I was within an 1/8th evenly oversize all the way around. (Except at the top where extra has to be removed when the door is sunk into the opening).

Following the instructions worked out pretty good - as soon as I ignored the window marks (which in my case also were too weak to identify)

Derek
 
Question on the glueing. I've seen people put weights on the top but would a mess of duct tape on the edges help?
 
AviatorJ said:
Question on the glueing. I've seen people put weights on the top but would a mess of duct tape on the edges help?
Click to expand...

Based on my sample set of 2 doors....

I'd suggest that you likely can't have too many things holding it in place. It's not easy to get enough even pressure sufficient to spread the cabosil without leaving dents. Tape would work in your favour I would think. I put clecos every 7/8 inch around the window and still had (small) voids - so I'm pretty sure you can't over do it.

Around the outside, tape helps, manual pressure once everything is in place helps, lots of clamps helped (about 8 front and back) (kept as much to the edges as possible, as it is easy to leave a clamp dent that will need some micro - ask me how I know. )

Also better on the second door was minimizing cabosil in the areas I was going to cut away which reduced the pressure needed to get good contact in the areas that mattered. Next time I would likely used a notched bondo spreader before knocking it flat to get the cabosil a touch more even.

... and then after you have done everything perfectly - use a syringe to fix the spots that didn't work out.

Derek
 
Took the plunge and got the doors glued. Probably all in my head but it was a bit stressful making sure I followed the instructions to the letter. The only thing I did different was put insulation in the doors, except for the area's that would interfere with the latching mechanisms.

I'm going to leave them in place for at least a few days. It's about 65 and pretty humid so want the epoxy and cabo to cure completely before I touch them. Whats the purpose of the parabeam material? I assume it will mold and cure solid and act as extra reinforcement on the doors.

 
Parabeam

The parabeam will fill the gap between the door sides in those locations and it will be really hard when cured...
 
I filled the cavities in my doors with expanding foam and let it cure in place in the fully closed position. It stiffened them up quite a bit and also provided a little insulation. I had to dig and gouge out clearance for the door hardware and plug the pour foam holes, but big deal.
 
Trimmed fairly close to the scribe line, didn't want to over do it.



Question on getting this final trimming done, the plans suggest a 12" block with some 80 grit. I'm going to stay away from power tools on this step. My question is whats the best way to mark how far back I need to be and what's the final spacing that I'm looking for? Saw a video of a guy using a piece of scrap .025 aluminium as a guage. Seemed like a pretty good idea.

Any suggestions welcomed.
 
Gap

I went round and round at this step. One school of thought is to minimize the gap. I started down this road but talked to some guys that had very narrow gaps. Some had issues once the doors and fuse were painted. The door does move forward and aft when being closed and they experience chipping paint at the gap. I opted for about 3/32" gap. It looks good to my eye, easy to create, and there won't be any interference with paint or the door moving when closed.

As far as creating the uniform gap, I followed what some other guys did. I cut the door so it would just fit inside the cabin top. I then went to Home Depot and bought some 60 grit Gator Grit paper disks. Tore the disks in half. Then you slide the half disk, grit side to the door, into the gap and run it back and forth around the door. It makes a really uniform gap. To make the gap wider, I stacked two half disks and repeated the process. The grit against the hook and loop side of the disk keeps it from sliding apart when you move the paper back and forth...

Worked for me...
 
Use use gator pads on one of my sanders so have some 60s and 80s in the airplane factory already. I'll just took a few minutes and made a finger gauge out of some scrap with an approximate width of 3/32".

Thanks for the tip!
 
Okay I have both doors mostly sanded where they fit into the recess. I still need to cut a few spots and then cut the index tabs off. I'm concerned that even with drawing lines and what not I may inadvertently shift the doors position, especially when drilling in the hinges.

I've seen some other builders essentially make index tabs out of scrap and then use this to keep the door in position for mounting while being recessed in the proper position. Is there anything that I need to be concerned with while doing something similar? Here's a picture from Justin T's build log.

blogger-image--467843312.jpg


Doing this will allow me to have the door in the final recessed position while working the hinge mounting. But wanted to check I wasn't missing anything before I did this.
 
AviatorJ said:
Doing this will allow me to have the door in the final recessed position while working the hinge mounting. But wanted to check I wasn't missing anything before I did this.
Click to expand...

I did it that way and it seemed to work well. Match drill the hole into the tab, pick 3 or so locations to drill into the door, drill those, then cut the tab off and you're good to go.
 
AviatorJ said:
Okay I have both doors mostly sanded where they fit into the recess. I still need to cut a few spots and then cut the index tabs off. I'm concerned that even with drawing lines and what not I may inadvertently shift the doors position, especially when drilling in the hinges.

I've seen some other builders essentially make index tabs out of scrap and then use this to keep the door in position for mounting while being recessed in the proper position. Is there anything that I need to be concerned with while doing something similar? Here's a picture from Justin T's build log.


Doing this will allow me to have the door in the final recessed position while working the hinge mounting. But wanted to check I wasn't missing anything before I did this.
Click to expand...

I'm finishing up the rough work on my left door and I used the tabs as well. I can say that I over-thought the fit. The fact is that you can get a perfect fit with the tabs and then:

Hinges - perhaps a slight shift
Plane Around 180* / pins - perhaps a slight shift
Strut install, door seal, etc....

Not saying to not try to get it the best you can, just saying it moves a bit throughout the process - e.g. I had a very slight misalignment when I drilled my strut bracket which caused the door to shift aft just a hair when it was closed. Off to flox those holes and try again:D
 
60av8tor said:
Not saying to not try to get it the best you can, just saying it moves a bit throughout the process - e.g.
Click to expand...

I read that somewhere which is why I'm going to wait until I have it hinged, strut'd with the PlaneAround latching before I worry about the 3/16th gap around the edge. At this point I just want it to set in there.
 
Okay working on hinges tonight, what is meant by Page 45-06 Step 3 - "Use three .125 thick scrap aluminum spacers to locale each cabin hinge to the walls of the hinge pockets...."?

Are they basically saying use them to ensure you have an 1/8th inch around each side? So doesn't really matter what you use... ie two epoxy stir sticks is 1/8th.
 
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