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  #1  
Old 12-24-2018, 06:28 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Default Adding smoke system

A friend bought an RV-12 that is registered as an E-LSA.

Has asked if he can install a smoke system.

A couple of questions:

1. Is there an existing smoke system for the -12?
2. If the answer to #1 is no, has anyone added one and can you provide details?
3. Can he install one in his E-LSA or does he need to convert his -12 to an E-AB, which he doesn't want to do?
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Last edited by N941WR : 12-24-2018 at 09:00 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2018, 08:27 PM
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rolick22 rolick22 is offline
 
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Yes there are several RV-12 that have a smoke systems. You can install it in your ELSA after you get your experimental ELSA Airworthiness certificate or install it as your building if your building EAB.

Here is one of many
http://www.smoke-system-helper.com
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2018, 09:34 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Back when I had a Yak-52 I remember reading about one guy who made an oil tank out of 4” PVC pipe and used a DC aquarium aerator pump to feed a fitting on his exhaust collector ring to make a smoke system. I guess that’s why they call it “EXPERIMENTAL “!😁
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2018, 07:54 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolick22 View Post
...You can install it in your ELSA after you get your experimental ELSA Airworthiness certificate or install it as your building if your building EAB.

...
I don't understand that comment.

E-LSA stands for "Experimental - Light Sport Aircraft".

My question is, do they operate the same way as an E-AB; meaning, can he had the smoke system without converting his E-LSA to an E-AB or must it be approved by Van's?
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Bill R.
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2018, 09:05 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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He can add it to his E-LSA without having to convert to E-AB. Which is a good thing, since you CANNOT convert an E-LSA to E-AB.

PS... If he does add a smoke system, have him post here and show how he did it. It’s on my list of things I’d love to do one of these days. :-)
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2018, 09:11 AM
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Like DaleB says; you cannot convert ELSA to EAB. After certification, one may perform any modifications to an ELSA that doesn't take the aircraft out of LSA parameters.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2018, 07:56 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
Like DaleB says; you cannot convert ELSA to EAB. After certification, one may perform any modifications to an ELSA that doesn't take the aircraft out of LSA parameters.
Thanks Dale & Mel, we have discussed the pro's and con's of converting his -12 to an E-AB (including the no going back clause), I have recommended against it, and he agrees. However, what I don't know are the rules surrounding modifying an E-LSA.

Can he install it himself and note it in the logbooks, same as an E-AB, or must an A&P do the install and document it? The owner is not the builder, not that it matters with an E-LSA.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
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Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
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www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 12-26-2018 at 07:58 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2018, 05:50 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
2. If the answer to #1 is no, has anyone added one and can you provide details?
Bill, I'm slowly installing a custom made 4-port system on a 912S in an S-7. Might have a report for you in a few months.
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2018, 07:44 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR View Post
Thanks Dale & Mel, we have discussed the pro's and con's of converting his -12 to an E-AB (including the no going back clause), I have recommended against it, and he agrees. However, what I don't know are the rules surrounding modifying an E-LSA.

Can he install it himself and note it in the logbooks, same as an E-AB, or must an A&P do the install and document it? The owner is not the builder, not that it matters with an E-LSA.
The rules for E-AB and E-LSA are almost the same. Anyone can perform any maintenance, repair or alteration to the airplane, regardless of what certificate they do or do not hold. My dog Buddy could perform maintenance on my plane, if only he had opposable thumbs and knew how to read a torque wrench. I'm not 100% certain what log book entries are required other than the condition inspection, but it's certainly a good idea to note the work in the log.

There are a couple of "quirks" to E-LSA. One is that anything that takes the airplane outside the limits of an LSA -- gross weight increase, in-flight adjustable prop, etc -- means you basically have a large airplane-shaped paperweight. It's no longer a legal LSA (and never can be again), and there is no path to E-AB. It simply cannot be done. You can convert an S-LSA to E-LSA, but that's it.

The other quirk is that, unlike E-AB, an owner who did not build the airplane can obtain the repairman certificate with inspection privileges (LSR-I), which allows him or her to perform the condition inspection. That is the ONLY thing the LSR-I certificate does... allow you to do the CI on that specific airplane, listed by serial number. it's not required for anything else.

Hope that helps. I have a rather lengthy article about LSA certificates and rules that I keep threatening to finish and submit for publication, if I ever get the time.
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  #10  
Old 12-27-2018, 09:51 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleB View Post
The other quirk is that, unlike E-AB, an owner who did not build the airplane can obtain the repairman certificate with inspection privileges (LSR-I), which allows him or her to perform the condition inspection. That is the ONLY thing the LSR-I certificate does... allow you to do the CI on that specific airplane, listed by serial number. it's not required for anything else.
So, why does the the endorsement issued by FAA say "Repairman Light Sport Aircraft" instead of "Repairman Certificate with Inspection Privileges (LSR-I)"? It's just odd that this piece of plastic doesn't mention "inspection" in the title and that you have to flip it over and read the fine print...
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