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  #31  
Old 12-28-2018, 06:08 PM
DBRuth DBRuth is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cumming,GA
Posts: 89
Default Sinkers not floaters

Thought I would add another Data point to the float saga. I replaced my second set of floats ( never flew with the first set, engine bought new 12/2014 and had to replace them per rotax SB). They were the 2 dot style, and were in service until February this year. I noticed signs of issues, fuel smell and higher fuel consumption, so I weighed them. Both sets were in the 7 gram zone. So I bought and installed the new 188 floats. New they were only a little lighter than the other set, only .2 gram per pair. They worked fine, no problems. Annual time, June, they were checked again and found to be exactly the same weight as before. Then in late October/ early November I noticed higher fuel consumption but no smell or gas in the trays. So I checked them again. One set, left carb, the pair were 9 grams, the heaviest was 5.4 g. Right carburetor, the pair was 8.2g, heavy one 4.6g. I ordered 2 new floats and filed a warranty claim. I'm not complaining, just wanted to let everyone know that the float saga continues. Be safe and check your floats regularly.
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  #32  
Old 12-28-2018, 07:34 PM
Dave12 Dave12 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Elkton, Md.
Posts: 1,376
Default

How did the warranty situation turn out?
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  #33  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:57 PM
pilotyoung pilotyoung is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 67
Default Floats

I a newbie to this Rotax, RV-12 club. I love the plane and the engines but I am troubled by the float situation. I weighed mine last week and one set was 6.52 and the other set was 6.7. So I put them back in and the engine if running fine. But it seems to me that Bing is on the third design and still having the same problems. In that situation either Bing or Rotax should belly up to the bar and pay the tab. The end users who keep buying their new, revised, (fixed) product, should not have to keep paying.

Am I understanding the situation correctly or am I missing something since I have only owned an RV-12 since February of 2018.

My plane was annualed before I bought it and the floats were all in limits. I was having a vibration problem and I weighed the floats to be sure they were not causing or contributing to the problem. I concluded the floats were OK.

But I have another annual in February and I am wondering what the floats will show then.

So at this point, I am just wanting to gather some background information so I can make a good decision in February.

Thanks Guys. This forum is so helpful to a new owner and many of you guys are treasure troves of information which you willingly share.
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Serial Number 120022, N6812Y
Bought it as a flying airplane in Feb. 2018
Just passed 100 hours flight time in RV-12, and 10,000 hours mostly in corporate jets. I am a CFI; CFII; MEI; and a advancd Ground Instructor, CFIG; and hoping to be able to help new RV-12 owners by doing some transition training for new builders and owners in RV-12's.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2018, 07:05 AM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 811
Default

How about the Marvel-Schebler floats? Anyone have any new information about them?
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RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2018, 08:35 AM
DBRuth DBRuth is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Cumming,GA
Posts: 89
Default Warranty

I don't expect any word on the warranty claim for several weeks yet. And it will be a credit back on the card from the supplier. This is how it worked back in 2015 with the original float SB. I have considered making my own brass floats like the ones in Holley carbs from the'60s and'70s. There were few problems with those, but are labor intensive to manufacture. I'm just not willing to try making my own, lots of work and plenty of failure modes. I'll keep using the Rotax units until they get it right. Or Marvel gets theirs working.
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2018, 08:48 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomkk View Post
How about the Marvel-Schebler floats? Anyone have any new information about them?
I emailed M-S several times asking them about their Bing floats with no reply. I specifically asked about their warranty. In my final attempt to contact them I asked if they actually value their customers - no response...
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PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC Jul 2012 - Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 406

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
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  #37  
Old 12-30-2018, 10:06 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 32
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Is there a trend among LL100 users not having problems with floats and Mogas with E-10 in it having problems with sinking floats? Is German DIN spec Mogas, where Bing carbs are tested, that different from US Mogas?


Has anyone ever pulled a pair of these sinker floats that are overweight, and exposed them to heat and time, to see if they dry out and expel the fuel they've absorbed, and become usable again? In other words, maintain a rotatable "stock" of these in your hanger, for reuse, until Bing finds a good and proper vendor solution for these carb floats, in their product line? The material used is obviously porous, over time, or... it's degrading chemically, to the point of uselessness.

If it indeed is ethanol problem based, in theory, you should be able to soak and submerse them in distilled water, they would take on water, and then heat them to the point that the water turns to steam or a gas, and evacuate the ethanol with the water, since ethanol is hygroscopic. If the weight is then in spec, an external sealer of some sort, thin and light, should be considered, that's inert to ethanol and gasoline properties. Hollowed out blown glass sounds like it would work?

Last edited by NinerBikes : 12-30-2018 at 10:29 AM.
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  #38  
Old 12-30-2018, 06:20 PM
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tomkk tomkk is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Port Orange, Fl
Posts: 811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
I emailed M-S several times asking them about their Bing floats with no reply. I specifically asked about their warranty. In my final attempt to contact them I asked if they actually value their customers - no response...
Yeah, I had the same problem. No response to any of my queries. Sure would like to have an option other than the standard Bing floats. I think I'm on my 4th set ...
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RV-12 N121TK ELSA #120845; first flight 06/10/2015
RV-12 N918EN ELSA #120995 Eagles Nest Project
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  #39  
Old 12-30-2018, 06:44 PM
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scottmillhouse scottmillhouse is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinerBikes View Post

Has anyone ever pulled a pair of these sinker floats that are overweight, and exposed them to heat and time, to see if they dry out and expel the fuel they've absorbed, and become usable again?
I changed one carb over weight floats out last year and saved floats. Reweighed my floats for annual and out of curiosity also weighed old floats. After a year they dried out and are within spec. No way would I install them and then have them start sinking in a few days or months and cause a problem away from home. These were the first new design current as of November 2015.
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  #40  
Old 12-30-2018, 09:39 PM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse View Post
I changed one carb over weight floats out last year and saved floats. Reweighed my floats for annual and out of curiosity also weighed old floats. After a year they dried out and are within spec. No way would I install them and then have them start sinking in a few days or months and cause a problem away from home. These were the first new design current as of November 2015.
I understand your position. Just wondering how it affects owners that are just flying their R-12 "around the patch" with the hangar near by. PM me if they are available for experimentation.
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