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  #21  
Old 12-31-2018, 06:07 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,700
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If you've had to live with Bendix style systems with mags, through all kinds of operating conditions, compare those experiences with your experiences with your modern car, in the same circumstances.

Once the new style system is properly set up, it will give the same experience as your car; it'll just start and run, without all the varying voodoo many of us have had to employ to get the old style stuff running.

That alone would be enough to motivate me. But you then get to improve cyl balance with button pushes, instead of laborious injector swapping, and the ignition advance features give better fuel economy, if you're willing to run lean of peak.

Consider that even little industrial engines, watercraft, cycles, etc etc have almost all migrated to electronic engine controls. I certainly wish my 10 year old UTV had it; it would make cold starting a thing of the past.

Charlie
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  #22  
Old 12-31-2018, 06:20 PM
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Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 559
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Iíve NEVER heard of anyone thatís gone back to any of the old-school mechanical systems (fuel, ignition, or both) once theyíve experienced a modern EFI/EFII system. I think that alone speaks volumes.

Mark
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  #23  
Old 12-31-2018, 06:54 PM
dmattmul dmattmul is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 39
Default EFII systems

Since I have bought the EFI/EFII system I probably should know more about this but I made the decision I wanted the latest technology (There will be more in my lifetime I'm sure) and since the automobile guys have been doing this for 20 years + wanted a system where I did not have to be adjusting air mixture controls but used FADEC mapping. (When was the last time you had to adjust your mixture control on your car?) I fly giant scale turbine jets using FADEC and love this ease of use. (Yes I know this a different system since we don't fly over 1,000 ft. AGL but have flown these in the Denver area with same results at sea level) Since the 390 is fuel injected already it was not this option I wanted but also the use of a lack of mixture control. Many years ago I talked with a builder using the system on his 14 and he was 100 times more knowledgably than me and I signed up. Today he has over 100 hours (Since I last communicated with him) and loves it. It might be a tomato tomoto argument but we all agree that VAF is the best community of aviation enthusiast in the world. I like using the latest technology and eventually it improves the system (I have 2 EV vehicles that I drive) even though it's more emotional than a scientific decision. The other opinion I received that I have not taken to the bank is this system will be compatible with the 100LL fuels of the future and I liked this play. Since I live in the Midwest I'm leery of Auto gas with ethanol that we should not have ever started using in our fuel systems but we might be stuck with this error and EFII gives me options in the future.

Looking for more comments from builders (Especially RV-14) that have made the leap of faith to go with 2 controls not 3 for there airframes.
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RV-14 QB building, Lycoming 390 Thunderbolt arriving Feb 2019, EFII-32 Ignition and Fuel, hope to be flying fall of 2019 !! Dues paid+ of course !!
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  #24  
Old 01-01-2019, 08:10 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,236
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Morning all. Sorry but I've got chair lag--not jet lag---from sitting with Suzanne all day yesterday getting a transfusion. Think I;ll just keep a big pillow in the car---just in case!

EFI injections may or may not have advantages over a mechanical injection. Certainly ECU controlled mixtures are or may be an advantage to some. I think that once you get past the install with its extra plumbing and wiring, then quite possibly there is an advantage. Ross at SDS has done an awesome job of developing this type of setup for many years.

For the builder or owner of the various planes, these systems are NOT drop in as the aircraft werent originally designed with them in mind. The RV14 may or may not be an exception with the return port in the tanks. The planes were designed with the overall availability of engines and parts to make an 'economical' aircraft. But for those that want to use these systems, Steve and I have done packages from RV4 through RV14, with the RV7 and RV10 being the most common. Double the plumbing, usually in tight places, and this extra plumbing has to interact with other systems originally designed for the plane. Wiring and flight controls sometimes come into play.

AS Flightlines, the Joint Venture of Aircraft Specialty and TS Flightlines has spend a considerable amount of time, effort, and some expense to prototype these packages and have beta testers check them; sometimes multiple testers, because not everyone route things the same way. We did it because you asked for it, and frankly it was a challenge!

At any rate, the common part that everyone will need is a duplex valve, configured correctly for the particular install they are doing. In most cases SPACE AND CLEARANCES are at a premium so prior planning is important. We recommend the Andair FS2020 duplex valve. Not to say that there arent others on the market, but we dont have experience with them. Will be doing a RV10 with a Newton valve shortly. This valve sometimes correctly configured has to come from Andair so lead times come into play.

Getting off course here, but the point is, YES they can be done, Yes they have some advantages, YES the installs are alot of work. Our suggestion is to thoroughly investigate if a EFI system is for you, and if so, WE'RE game and can help.

Tom and Steve
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:21 AM
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Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 559
Default AS Flightlines

Tom and Steveís plumbing kits make this an easy installation....at least in the -7. Thanks guys!!

Mark
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2019, 11:23 AM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Posts: 380
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We have been working on this project based on builder requests. This is a picture of the Andair Type 7 valve with the off configuration in the aft position. We are working on the release of a drop in package for those who want to go with the alternate valve. This package will include all tubes to completely plumb the cabin fuel system for the RV14 and will also include a drill template to mount the alternate valve correctly. This will be necessary to ensure that the tubes are a perfect fit. This package will be scheduled for release in the next several months.




We are also back at work on the Duplex valve configuration for the RV14 due to growing interest in that configuration from customers. This is designed to support SDS and EFII systems. We have plumbed a few rv14 aircraft in this configuration so far, and have realized that the location of the valve is absolutely critical for the 4 rigid tubes to fit correctly. In addition, the duplex valve requires a new mounting bracket which we are now CNC machining and bending, new clips to hold the tubes as well as some cover plate and other tunnel modifications. Due to the complexity of doing this correctly, we are working with 2 beta testers to ensure that we can provide a complete drop in package for the duplex valve. This package will provide ALL the tubes and modified components to make installation easy. This is a work in progress, and will take several months to complete and finalize.



We look forward to continuing progress on these projects and continuing to innovate new products based on feedback from the Vans community.

Thanks again for letting us be a part of your projects.

Steve and Tom
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Steve Tschurwald- Aircraft Specialty LLC (Your source for Custom Parts for Experimental Aircraft), AS FLIGHTLINES (Joint Venture with TS Flightlines)

aircraftspecialty@gmail.com

www.aircraftspecialty.com
www.asflightlines.com
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  #27  
Old 04-09-2019, 10:14 PM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Spring Hill, KS
Posts: 339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraft Specialty View Post
We are also back at work on the Duplex valve configuration for the RV14 due to growing interest in that configuration from customers. This is designed to support SDS and EFII systems. We have plumbed a few rv14 aircraft in this configuration so far, and have realized that the location of the valve is absolutely critical for the 4 rigid tubes to fit correctly. In addition, the duplex valve requires a new mounting bracket which we are now CNC machining and bending, new clips to hold the tubes as well as some cover plate and other tunnel modifications. Due to the complexity of doing this correctly, we are working with 2 beta testers to ensure that we can provide a complete drop in package for the duplex valve. This package will provide ALL the tubes and modified components to make installation easy. This is a work in progress, and will take several months to complete and finalize.
Steve, I'm planning an SDS EFI installation so I'm very interested in this package. Will it include plumbing for the dual fuel pump and filter assembly inside the tunnel? Or just the fuel lines between the duplex valve and the tanks?

Thanks,
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Spring Hill, KS
RV-8A N2D #80583 - built/flew/sold
RV-14A #140017 - wings complete, empacone in progress...
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  #28  
Old 04-10-2019, 12:32 AM
Aircraft Specialty Aircraft Specialty is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Oconomowoc, WI
Posts: 380
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Mark,

Right now we are working on the valve brackets, cover plate mods, and fuel tubes from the valve out to the fuselage exit, and then out to the wing tanks. This setup is actually a lot more involved with a lot more variables than it appears. We are working to make it as simple as possible and "drop in."

We do plan on working on the plumbing forward of the valve, but haven't finalized any ideas there yet.

We will eventually have a tunnel mockup which will help speed along the process. However, we don't have any definitive near term time line on any of that.

Since the valve plumbing will be the same for all RV14 aircraft requiring a duplex system, that is what we are focusing on first. Once that is complete, we will start seeing if we can standardize items forward of the valve for some popular setups.

Steve
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Steve Tschurwald- Aircraft Specialty LLC (Your source for Custom Parts for Experimental Aircraft), AS FLIGHTLINES (Joint Venture with TS Flightlines)

aircraftspecialty@gmail.com

www.aircraftspecialty.com
www.asflightlines.com
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  #29  
Old 04-10-2019, 07:38 AM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,236
Default Follow up---

Just a followup to Steve's post. WE started this project several years ago for a well known 14 builder. We didnt think is would become as popular as it has.
But, MANY 14 builders are getting duplex electronic injection systems, and have requested assistance. (Even some 14 builders wanted to use a different selector valve, so we played with that too.)

This has been an ongoing project, and with the help of several beta testers, it's turned the corner and headed for home. One of the things that we have dealt with is the location of the fuel pump. Sine the 14 and its pump mounts were designed for the Andair pump, some changes were necessary to use the SDS or EFii pumps. They are longer, the mounting holes are different, and it general it presented a challenge. And the fact that filters need to be incorporated in the system makes this a real exercise.

The challenge is that this is experimental. WE are all builders with our own ideas, and not everyone sees things the same way. But to make a drop in package, we have to settle on a firm location, design the plumbing for it-per the manufacturers recommendations--and document the install. if you were doing 1 package, its not a big deal, but when you are designing a package potentially used by alot of builders, you have to think about alot of different things.

Part of that problem is NOT having a plane to play with to test fit things, or in my case, a place to put the plane. In the past, and still done today in some cases, it was get in the car---or in Steve's case his 10, and go to the builders location and actually mockup the components. That worked well for a short time, but became increasing dependent on time and schedules, and in my case, the documented health challenges that has me staying close to home.

So we enlisted the aid of you guys, the actual builders, that we use as beta testers, to help make these packages a reality. It takes a special person to do this! Alot of us just want to get it done so we can move to the next item. These dedicated testers do alot of the mockups and see that things work as designed. THAT takes alot of time, effort and thought. In the case of this duplex package, several little things came up that needed attention to make the whole package better. The big thing here is TIME----time to design, time to make a prototype, but the real issue is TIME for the beta testers and their schedules ( and life challenges) to check things. WE get things back from one tester, then in some cases make minor adjustments and send it to a different tester to get their opinion. All of this takes time, to make sure that when the end users get the finished package, it fits.

So---we hope to have all of this finalized soon--but I suspect it will be several months before its released.

Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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