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Unleaded Fuel?part of design of AX50 cylinder design?

Relentless

Well Known Member
This question comes up during most calls and I know the concept is not mainstream yet so here is an attempt to start conversation about our new ACE AX50 cylinders and the unleaded fuel advantage of our components. While they will run leaded fuel just fine, we would actually prefer our customers ran unleaded fuel exclusively.

Cleaner engine, better economy, and many synthetic oil options are some real reasons for looking at the R Series components.

How is it possible to use unleaded, lower octane fuel with R Series engines developed by ACE Performance and now available from Titan Engines?

First, we need to understand a little about fuel octane ratings, there are a lot
of books on the subject but basically the higher the octane rating the more resilient to the fuel is to knock (pre-ignition).
Commercial fuel blends have a scale that runs from 0~100 and these
numbers are based on two fundamental hydrocarbons, one knock resilient
(100)the other exceedingly susceptible to knock (0), this is basically
how the two ends of the spectrum are decided.

Knock rating of a fuel is determined by running a test engine under
strictly controlled conditions. The octane number achieved depends on
the type of controlled testing. Currently there are two fundamental
methods, one is RON and the other is MON. This controlled testing though
does not really correlate with real world operating conditions. It has
been found to be somewhere in between the two testing methods and
therefore and average of the two is taken RON+MON/2

Contrary to popular belief, putting in 100 octane fuel will not give you
an instantaneous 20hp gain. It will however, as an example, *allow you to
achieve the higher hp figure by using a higher compression piston.

Secondly and more importantly is the design of the combustion chamber
and the effects it will have on an octane number.
As we increase the compression ratio, the cylinder pressure and
temperature will rise to such a level that eventually the end gas will
spontaneously burn. This is the reason why a higher octane fuel is used
to suppress this spontaneous burn (detonation) with increasing
compression ratio.

Here is a rough Minimum octane necessary with specific compression ratios for standard Lycoming engines:

Octane/Compression
50/5.0
70/6.8
80/8.0
90/8.7
100/9.0+

The detonation itself, which is a function of the end gas spontaneously
burning, will have shock-waves moving through the cylinder charge at
velocities in the region of 1200m/s. These waves reflect against the
cylinder and combustion chamber wall, these are then set into a state of
vibration which you hear as a ping or a knocking sound.

There are many methods, but the following or a combination will
considerably reduce the onset of knock.
1.) Increase the charge turbulence and flame travel distance, this reduces the
mixture end temperature.
2.) Reduce the flame path time this allows for a reduction in ignition
timing event.(If peak pressure occurs at TDC then higher pressures and
temperatures will occur)
3.) Ensure design of the mechanical components are not conducive to knock.
4.)Raise the octane number.

The AX50 cylinder and pistons are designed as an optimized package that
takes careful consideration into account of the above.
The combustion chamber is radical departure from the standard 360 type
cylinder head. It has a recessed chamber with squish bands (the charge
is squeezed radially inwards towards the center of the combustion
chamber),this promote higher than average flame speed along with
induced swirl by this means we are able to mix vigorously the fuel mixture before
combustion which will assist in a faster combustion pressure rise,
allowing for a reduction in ignition timing and at the same time
allowing for a considerably leaner mixture.

(image of the surface of a AX50 piston burn pattern)
2rrx6yq.jpg


The spark plug location on the AX50, whilst similar from the outside is
again very different on the inside, the plugs are much closer together
allowing a substantial reduction in timing due to the increase in burn
speed.

(AX50 Cylinder showing close location of spark holes as well as bathtub shape of combustion chamber and squish band)
amjol.jpg


The AX50 piston, has a shape that mimics the cylinder combustion shape
and this shape forces the charge into the center. The top land on the
AX50 piston is greatly reduced and this minimizes the crevice volume.
The crevice volume is the area around the top of the piston down to the
top of the top ring, this fills with unburnt fuel and if
temperatures increase too much, the unburnt fuel spontaneously ignites.

(AX50 piston shape and small upper land)
2ir579y.jpg


So, why can we run lower octane unleaded fuel?

www.ACE-Performance.com totally redesigned the cylinder and piston assembly
incorporating known, scientifically proven design details into our
product that the standard 360 and (soon 320) type engines simply do not have.:cool:
 
Thanks.

We have seen this type of configuration in Hi-prow engines in other than aircraft engine build-ups over the years and understand the application. Just a quick question if I may. Has Jimmy or you guys gotten a "Rough minimum octane necessary with specific compression ratios" charted out of any dianomometer runs, with respect to these AX-50 heads and pistons? It would be nice to see the two charted out together. I agree the day of no-lead fuel in our little toys is closing in on us. I for one have expected it to have already have past. Thanks if you can. Yours as always. R.E.A. III #80888
 
Very good explanation Kevin. And my compliments to Andy; he did a nice job with those chambers.
 
Yes the table listed is based on the ron+mon/2 method. Please understand though, that there are always going to be slight differences in the real world due to the ron mon testing being carried out under controlled testing in a lab.
 
So obviously airport mogas is fine and most likely pump pure gas for those who can find it. My question is will the ax50, mainly the r409 engine, run on regular old 93 octane pump gas with 10% ethanol.
 
So obviously airport mogas is fine and most likely pump pure gas for those who can find it. My question is will the ax50, mainly the r409 engine, run on regular old 93 octane pump gas with 10% ethanol.


Yes, I am doing this right now in my R409 Rv8. :)
 
The AX50 looks like a good candidate for Direct Injection and associated electronics to automatically run LOP in cruise. Chevy has a new 2016 Driect Injected engine with 12.5:1 compression running on 87 octane unleaded gas. It would be nice to get the HP assoicated with high compression aircraft engines but running on regular octane gas. Do you think this technology will be coming to aircraft engines anytime soon?

John Salak
 
The AX50 looks like a good candidate for Direct Injection and associated electronics to automatically run LOP in cruise. Chevy has a new 2016 Driect Injected engine with 12.5:1 compression running on 87 octane unleaded gas. It would be nice to get the HP assoicated with high compression aircraft engines but running on regular octane gas. Do you think this technology will be coming to aircraft engines anytime soon?

John Salak

I am sure direct injection could happen today. I think Robert from EFii spoke about this and it is just a matter of price. I seem to remember him commenting it would not improve much more that his batch fire system does now. Maybe he will comment, he is the expert on this.
 
Hi Kevin,

Quick correction you might like to make to your opening post.
more resilient to the fuel is to knock (pre-ignition).

That is detonation you are referring to not pre-igntion.

Nice piston work :)

What is the design ICP you are working to and spark timing on the mogas? PM if you want to keep that confidential.

Cheers,
 
Designed squish clearance dimension? If small, is there a procedure to check it during assembly?
 
Designed squish clearance dimension? If small, is there a procedure to check it during assembly?

Good Question - and how long does it take for the lead build up to create a mechanical knock by filling that space with material?


That was one of the issues in cars with close piston-to-head clearance when leaded gasoline was in vogue. I sounded like a bad rod bearing at idle. The shade tree method of repair was an 8oz Coke bottle of water dribbled in the carb to break loose the lead/carbon deposits while reving the engine (mostly to keep if from dying with the water ingestion). I treated many an engine this way.

The factory method was head removal and scrape off the deposits.
 
Injection

You can automatically run lean of peak today with the EFII system.
Direct injection is a completely different animal from any of the engine parts, or engine management parts that small aircraft are working with today.
It would cost a LOT of money for small gains to even play with direct injection.
Ever increasing emissions standards are the main incentive for car manufacturers to keep finding ways to reduce their fleet emission averages.
Fortunately, we don't have to deal with the cost and complexity that auto makers are stuck with.

Robert
 
Designed squish clearance dimension? If small, is there a procedure to check it during assembly?

Absolutely, in early testing just such check was not completed by the engine builder of my 720 and the result destruction of the engine resulted. The clearances for a new case must be reserved or possible shimming can restore the clearance for the chamber.
 
Good Question - and how long does it take for the lead build up to create a mechanical knock by filling that space with material?

The design is such that the squish zone promote a violent action that pushes the mixed gases into the center of the piston.
The standard "Lycoming type engine" piston arrangement do not do this
and deposits build quickly to the edges of the piston.

2rrx6yq.jpg


Another solution, switch to unleaded fuel:)
 
The design is such that the squish zone promote a violent action that pushes the mixed gases into the center of the piston.

Yep. Pretty sure Bill and I know how squish works ;) We're curious about the actual squish dimension.

Here's an example, one of my old experiments from the Wayback Machine. Pentroof 4-valve Honda with the squish area in the combustion chamber welded in, then milled flush with the gasket surface. Squish clearance was set by adding or removing plies from the Honda OEM multi-layer metal head gasket. Measurement was by trial; assemble with a crushable media on top of the piston's squish area (a strip of 0.040" rosin core solder worked well), pull through TDC once, then disassemble and measure the media thickness. I ran this setup very close (crush measurement 0.035"), so the squish areas were nearly in contact at 10,000 RPM...so close that they would not build carbon in the squish areas, at least not within the overhaul time frames of a racebike. Ran on race gas, but it would accept 93 pump gas without detonation if I didn't lug it.



BTW, piston on right was modified to improved overlap flow, and unshroud the areas off the end of the hump. It made more power.
 
Yep. Pretty sure Bill and I know how squish works ;) We're curious about the actual squish dimension.

I was not actually trying enlighten you Dan, I am sure what you have forgotten is more than I will ever know about this. My responds was for the Vans audience to share the effort we are putting into moving these engines forward.

Our squish dimension is proprietary. As you have proven by your post this is not an easy thing to get right. Although, computers have certainly made the process more efficient.
 
1) I presume this piston / cylinder configuration could have an ideal ignition timing curve requiring less advance at full power low RPM (think fixed pitch prop take off @ sea level). Could this be provided so it can be programmed into any of the electronic injection systems?
2) Can you make the cylinders for 'Narrow Deck' engines?
I know there are not many of them left, but I have one...
3) My small group of RV & PITTS flyers all fly O-360 & O-320 fixed pitch. We have good engines that would likely be top overhauled before the next major overhaul.
Are these cylinder assemblies going to work for this segment of the market?
 
Kevin & Dan, not trying to be a dicc here but do setups like this have any FOD tolerance at all?.
 
1) I presume this piston / cylinder configuration could have an ideal ignition timing curve requiring less advance at full power low RPM (think fixed pitch prop take off @ sea level). Could this be provided so it can be programmed into any of the electronic injection systems?
2) Can you make the cylinders for 'Narrow Deck' engines?
I know there are not many of them left, but I have one...
3) My small group of RV & PITTS flyers all fly O-360 & O-320 fixed pitch. We have good engines that would likely be top overhauled before the next major overhaul.
Are these cylinder assemblies going to work for this segment of the market?

I run my timing at peak power at 17 degrees.

Sorry no narrow deck. Good tagged wide deck case is around 4k.

Our AX50 and soon to arrive AX40 are design exactly for this segment.

We are excited about some new airframes that are being configured just because of the advances we have made but our primary market are the 25,000+ experimental aircraft out there all flying 320, 360, and 540 lycoming engines.:cool:
 
I run my timing at peak power at 17 degrees.

Which says the squish is working.

Our AX50 and soon to arrive AX40 are design exactly for this segment.

Available over the counter, for swapout at top overhaul as Scott described?

I have no tolerance for FOD in my engine. This is what happened the last time I allowed FOD in my engine.

My goodness, what sort of FOD did that? I think Aerhed's question relates to FOD in the combustion chamber, and "no tolerance" would require an air filter.
 
Over the counter?..

As you know Dan this tech is not as forgiving and our experience thus far with a lycoming engine builder that have been rebuilding these engines for many years is they tend to be very impatient with the additional details required to assemble these engine correctly. If I tell my friend that has been building hot rod engines forever that he needs to check the squish clearance he replies, "ok" and does it properly.

Early fails in aviation tend to be very unforgiving and for this reason we must venture into selling our components "over the counter" with caution. For the time being I have offered to upgrade engines for customers for minimum expense either on site or at our shop as part of an overhaul.

Once we have many engines flying and the market is convinced that the tech is reliable and stable if installed correctly, we can then start selling parts and laying the responsibility for the installation instructions on the customer.

We will get there?.
 
I am so excited to FINALY see this tech coming into aviation, for decades I have been building 12-1 comp bigblock engines and running 92 oct. As mentioned above, the squish to promote internal mixing, turbalence and a side affect of this is also to cool off hot spots in the combustion chamber that would promote pre ign. I set mine up at .030 I have seen more detination with lower compression engines that did not set up this squish area. Remember the 1970 Ford 351 C quinch chamber heads? they were high compression from the factory but emissions killed it. :D
 
Kevin & Dan, not trying to be a dicc here but do setups like this have any FOD tolerance at all?.

Well, you aren't this time. Correctly observed, it would not have a good FOD tolerance. VW released the type 4 engine in 1974, it had a tight piston/head clearance. Unfortunately, it also had a tendency for the accelerator jet to dislodge from the carb (twins) and it landed in the wrong area a few times. It would break the piston. Even more unfortunately, when that happened, and the con rod flapped about with an increased cocking angle, the swing radius of the big end increased and the tight clearance to the case frequently yielded a big hole in the case as a result.

I don't know what happens with a lyc 360 and if it has enough clearance, but FOD prevention would be a high priority for this design feature.

So, this (tight squish) would become a less fault tolerant design. Not necessarily a problem, if properly addressed. Just my opinion.
 
Yes, I am doing this right now in my R409 Rv8. :)

This in an rv10= win. Lower fuel costs, lower maitenance costs, better more modern engine, lower purchase price (for engine). We all know engines drive aviation, but this combo would seriously make flying more affordable.

Matthew, welcome to VAF:D

Thanks. :) I've been lurking for quite some time. I'm going to be scratch building a Cabin Eagle VW powered here this year... but after that I've been eyeing the RV10.
 
Bill.
A Lead scavenging compound is added to Avgas 100LL - this compound is Ethylene Dibromide. This scavenger is designed to react with the Lead oxide to form Lead Bromide which is more volatile - becoming a gas at around 200 - 250 oC. This is a low enough temperature to ensure that the Lead is removed from the engine as a gas end it subsequently goes back to the solid phase as the exhaust gas cools in the atmosphere.

What is important, more so than Avgas is the oil blowby and contamination, this will quickly build deposits and cause engine harm. We have worked hard to minimize the amount of oil blowby in our products

Andrew
 
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