Do you believe in the "Witching Hour?" What is your personal cut-off time?

Hi Folks,

I thought this would be an interesting thread just to see if anyone else believes in the "Witching Hour?"

"Charlie Waffles" or Mark recently posted an embarrassing mistake that may or may not ever be duplicated by another builder. Kudos to Mark, it could possibly save someone else's life by sharing what the affects of fatigue can have on one's ability to read the plans late at night.

Personally if it's midnight, I'm done. No exceptions. Every time I've gone past this time , I've ended up tipping rivets, drilling "extra holes", and generally making bone headed mistakes.

My personal " Witching Hour" is midnight... What is yours?

Steve Wolfe

It's a different time daily based upon my fatigue level. I've also found that once I make a mistake, I usually assess the situation and return the next day to fixed whatever went wrong previously. History has proven that once I start making mistakes, it usual gets worse if I attempt to drive through the frustration.

bob

rleffler said:

I've also found that once I make a mistake, I usually assess the situation and return the next day to fixed whatever went wrong previously. History has proven that once I start making mistakes, it usual gets worse if I attempt to drive through the frustration.

bob

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A very good point; this has been my experience as well. Though it's worth noting that what qualifies as a mistake worthy of stopping has changed as I've progressed. Back when I was on the empennage, fouling up a rivet in a tight place seemed like a minor disaster, especially if it was tough to drill out. I ruined some parts by trying to "just get this stupid thing fixed" without really stepping back and thinking about my approach to the problem.

As for me, I rarely stay out in the garage after 10, unless I'm doing quiet stuff. I actually like my neighbors on the garage side, and I don't want to bother them with the compressor/air drill/rivet gun if they're trying to get some peace and quiet.

9 pm

We stopped building at 9 pm....a firm limit on noisy activities. Compressor was turned off. Drills were stored. Hammers put away. Not being a night person, that was also the time I usually quit other activities, as well. That gave an hour of web browsing, reviewing plans for the next day (but not acting on them!), or just watching TV before bed. It also kept our airpark neighbors from complaining. If I was really anxious to hit the project again, I'd be up and out in the hangar early. But, the compressor and noise didn't come on before 7 (and usually 8) am.

When I make my first dumb mistake --large or small, 9am or 9pm--it's time to walk away and do something my wife's been wanting me to do for the past five years. As Bob says above, history has shown that the result of me trying to continue will usually be a downward spiral into a bigger mistake--and more frustration--and more $$$.

N546RV said:

As for me, I rarely stay out in the garage after 10, unless I'm doing quiet stuff. I actually like my neighbors on the garage side, and I don't want to bother them with the compressor/air drill/rivet gun if they're trying to get some peace and quiet.

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I agree! My work shop is only about 6 feet from one of the neighbours bedroom windows.

Jim

I found it was less a function of time than planning what to do. I had the best luck preparing for a task(s) and then when completing that - stop. Plan the next one (required tools, parts, plans, thought about the best approach), etc., etc. - repeat.

Some days, maybe I only put in an hour. Other days, it might have been up to eight. However, once I went with this system, the mistakes and rework dropped way off and I didn't feel that fatigue factor creeping into the equation.

Dan

My quit time is amost word for word the same as Louise's. But I also have to add that 9:00 pm also gave me time to spend with my wife. I found that if I didn't set specific times for the wife I would be 24/7 in the garage.
If moma ain't happy ain't nobody happy.

witching hour

A friend who constructed a beautiful RV didn't have to face the noise concerns some of you have mentioned. His building time typically began at or after 10pm because of his work and family. He managed to build a fine airplane.

Yesterday was a good day

This is only RV related because I am going to try to incorporate this attitude into working on my aircraft.

Because I was not timely retained, I was performing an accident reconstruction solely from vehicle damage photos and scene photos taken by the opposing side's expert. The other side incorrectly attributed roadway evidence to my defendent's vehicle. Lo and behold, the photographs of a gas stain (motocycle rest position) also showed the roadway evidence actually associated with the motorcycle. It was a "Eureka" moment.

Post adrenalin rush, my first instinct was to keep working even though it was 5:30PM and I had been working all day. Then came another "Eureka" moment. Why not stop on a high note and bask in the glow of success and accomplishment. I had a great evening and sure looked forward to coming to work today.

I am going to try to bring this philosophy to the hangar. Most of us who build airplanes are either "Type A" personalities or certainly have those tendencies. If we are truly doing this for education and recreation, then stopping at a reasonable hour after success means that tomorrow we'll approach the next task with our most positive attitude. On the other hand, stopping in frustration after a mistake makes for restless sleep and a negative attitude heading into the shop the next time.

Larry Tompkins
N544WB -6A
W52 Battle Ground, WA

For my build, I don't work past 19:00 as to not disturb the occupants in the appartment building.

On top of that, I usually stop after 4 hours in the shop as I've noticed that fatigue kicks in provocking stupid errors, impatience and an overall drop in enjoying the work.

9:00pm is my cut-off, with very few exceptions. Mostly because I found the same thing that Bob mentioned.

I will knock off earlier if I feel the urge to throw <ObjectIamFrustratedWith> through the <VerticalSurfaceDirectlyInFrontOfMe>.

I agree with almost everyone, but to me it's about relative perspective. Some folks are in situations where time/location/noise, etc.. dictate things and others work different shifts, etc.. For me I have to agree more on the "fatigue level" of things. My propeller accident happened right after a long multiple hour X/C flight dodging weather with ground stops in between storms coupled with low hydration, high stress flying, high altitude, starting out at O-Dark Thirty in the morning, etc.. I shouldn't have been anywhere near an airplane...but I was! Big learning experience...and as others have said: Good Judgement comes from Experience, Experience comes from Bad Jugement. I have lots of Experience!

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

I used to work at a large fruit flavored computer company. When software engineers write software they usually use 'source control software' - that organizes and keeps our various bits of source code...

If you tried to check in any code after 2am, our source control system would ask random math or logic problems which you had to answer promptly. If you failed in your answer you were told it was unwise to be checking in code in your current condition and to please try again tomorrow.

witching temperature

Along with fatigue and dehydration I would add temperature. I found out through hard experience that any work done when the temperature was 108 degrees F or above in the hangar would inevitably need to be redone the next day. I also got really good at telling how hot it was by picking up tools that had been in the shade. If it was almost too hot to handle, time to pack it in and have a cold drink!

I'm a night owl by nature. During my build, I often worked until 11:00 or 12:00.

The only attention getting accident I had during my build was about 2:00 one morning when I was trying to finish a couple of parts so I could prime them after work the next day. Due to inbound weather (I primed outside), the next day looked like it might be the only suitable priming weather for several days, so I *had* to finish the parts.

And then I nicked my finger with the bandsaw. Just a scratch, really, but it highlighted the fact that I was pushing too hard and wasn't focusing.

I quit for the night and had a scratched finger for a couple of days as a reminder.

Bill Dicus said:

A friend who constructed a beautiful RV didn't have to face the noise concerns some of you have mentioned. His building time typically began at or after 10pm because of his work and family. He managed to build a fine airplane.

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I'm right there with your bud. Three kids and my own business forces me into the shop from 10 til 1 AM.

I'm right there with Louise too, at 9pm. I then spend an hour updating my log and winding down. An exception is if I screw up a part, I tend to stop right then, even if it's mid-afternoon on a weekend. Even if I'm not tired, I'm probably mad, and need to lay down the tools.

Another exception (in the other direction) was that when I grossly underestimated how long it would take ME to close one of my fuel tanks I didn't quit until nearly 2 am. You can't exactly walk away from that one before you're done! (I did have to replace one leaky skin to baffle rivet on that one)

Along the same lines; NO BUI (Building Under the Influence). I apply the same "bottle to throttle" rule I apply to flying.

I never worked late but I always started very early, usually 4am. There were lots of days were I didn't make it to bed early enough the night before and was essentially a zombie. On those mornings I would just do some mindless tasks like edge finishing, sanding, cleaning, or organizing. On a project this size something is better than nothing, but there are definitely those days or times you should stay away from anything that requires brains.