Some time ago a -8 owner showed me how he pumped oil through the engine before he started the engine. It even showed some oil pressure. He said he never made a dry start as he called it. I'm kicking myself now for not getting his name and contact info. After reading the oil article in Sport Aviation, I got to thinking about it. He said it cost about $600 for the system. I found one web site where it is 3 times that much. Is there anybody with experience with an engine pre oil system? Where to buy it?
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Engine pre oiler?
- Thread starter LyleM
- Start date
Infinity aero has a preoiler but I don't know much about it. His stick grips are nice though.
Bill Wightman
Well Known Member
Built my own for $40 in plumbing parts
A couple months ago, we needed to pre-oil our engine before startup, since it had been sitting dry for so long. Its not hard to make a pre-oil system - here's how I did it:
The basic concept is to make an air pressure fed reservoir. The body of the reservoir is made out of a short length of 6" diameter schedule 40 PVC and designed to hold about 2 quarts of liquid.
The top of the reservoir uses a glued on threaded adapter so a screw-on cap can be fitted to the top of the PVC body. The screw on cap is fitted with a standard male shop air fitting so the reservoir can be pressurized. We found about 40 psi was plenty to force the oil through the motor with good flow rates.
The bottom of the PVC also has a cap glued on to it. This is a solid cap that's fitted with a ball valve so the oil flow can be turned on and off. To that a length of suitable hose is attached, ending in a 1/8 NPT fitting for attachment to the Lycoming accessory case (we filled the motor through the same place we tap off for the oil pressure transducer).
To use, just unscrew the top cap, and fill the reservoir with 2 quarts of oil with the ball valve on the bottom closed. Replace the cap, connect the shop air, open the ball valve and viola - you're pressure feeding oil through the top of the motor.
Be careful not to apply too much pressure to the system, as it is possible to blow up the PVC and/or related plastic parts.
If you want, I can post a few pics...
A couple months ago, we needed to pre-oil our engine before startup, since it had been sitting dry for so long. Its not hard to make a pre-oil system - here's how I did it:
The basic concept is to make an air pressure fed reservoir. The body of the reservoir is made out of a short length of 6" diameter schedule 40 PVC and designed to hold about 2 quarts of liquid.
The top of the reservoir uses a glued on threaded adapter so a screw-on cap can be fitted to the top of the PVC body. The screw on cap is fitted with a standard male shop air fitting so the reservoir can be pressurized. We found about 40 psi was plenty to force the oil through the motor with good flow rates.
The bottom of the PVC also has a cap glued on to it. This is a solid cap that's fitted with a ball valve so the oil flow can be turned on and off. To that a length of suitable hose is attached, ending in a 1/8 NPT fitting for attachment to the Lycoming accessory case (we filled the motor through the same place we tap off for the oil pressure transducer).
To use, just unscrew the top cap, and fill the reservoir with 2 quarts of oil with the ball valve on the bottom closed. Replace the cap, connect the shop air, open the ball valve and viola - you're pressure feeding oil through the top of the motor.
Be careful not to apply too much pressure to the system, as it is possible to blow up the PVC and/or related plastic parts.
If you want, I can post a few pics...
I am confused, how does the oil circulate thru the engine? Or it doesn't? If it doesn't, then it means you have just added a bunch oil to the engine.
Some pix would be greatly appreciate it.
Bill Wightman
Well Known Member
Mehrdad, oil circulation through the engine has been discussed elsewhere in the forum, and due to the complexity of the subject, I'd rather not attempt to answer that question here. A search will turn up plenty of information on that subject...
But: the pre-oiler I described is only intended to add oil to the engine under pressure. It can be used to fill the engine with oil and can force the oil through the upper oil passages in the engine, thus ensuring the top end is fully lubricated before the first start.
I'll post a few pictures when I get back in the states.
But: the pre-oiler I described is only intended to add oil to the engine under pressure. It can be used to fill the engine with oil and can force the oil through the upper oil passages in the engine, thus ensuring the top end is fully lubricated before the first start.
I'll post a few pictures when I get back in the states.
http://www.oilamatic.com/ is an alternative too. Best, Jim.
ronschreck
Well Known Member
One solution
Some time a go I posted information on a Half-Raven inverted oil system that uses an oil accumulator to supply about 7 or 8 seconds of oil pressure during inverted flight, With the addition of a manual or electric valve to the accumulator you can maintain pressure in the accumulator after engine shut down and then release that pressure just prior to the next start to pre-oil your engine. Here's the thread.
I do not have a valve on my accumulator as I fly so often that it is unlikely that my engine components dry between flights. If your engine typically sits idle for weeks or months at a time this option may be of use to you.
Some time a go I posted information on a Half-Raven inverted oil system that uses an oil accumulator to supply about 7 or 8 seconds of oil pressure during inverted flight, With the addition of a manual or electric valve to the accumulator you can maintain pressure in the accumulator after engine shut down and then release that pressure just prior to the next start to pre-oil your engine. Here's the thread.
I do not have a valve on my accumulator as I fly so often that it is unlikely that my engine components dry between flights. If your engine typically sits idle for weeks or months at a time this option may be of use to you.
pierre smith
Well Known Member
It doesn't really "circulate"..
...but since the oil galleys in the engine are pressurized, oil is forced to the cam bearings, crank and rod bearings, since they don't know that it's not coming from the oil pump. You don't need any oil in the oil pan to do this either, it just ensures that all the bearings have oil present and the bearings won't scuff at startup.
The cylinders and cam lobes are "splash" oiled as the crank spins and the oil is slung off the bearing faces. The lifters also have oil galleys and are also subjected to pre-oiling.
Best,
...but since the oil galleys in the engine are pressurized, oil is forced to the cam bearings, crank and rod bearings, since they don't know that it's not coming from the oil pump. You don't need any oil in the oil pan to do this either, it just ensures that all the bearings have oil present and the bearings won't scuff at startup.
The cylinders and cam lobes are "splash" oiled as the crank spins and the oil is slung off the bearing faces. The lifters also have oil galleys and are also subjected to pre-oiling.
Best,
David Paule
Well Known Member
I've got the Oilamatic preoiler on my Cessna 180. It's performed wonderfully for over 500 hours now.
Engine off, you can feel the difference with it on, wriggling the prop.
However, engines often make TBO without one, and it weighs around 8 pounds.
Engine off, you can feel the difference with it on, wriggling the prop.
However, engines often make TBO without one, and it weighs around 8 pounds.
Blue Lion
Member
Proluber from Aircraft Spruce
I installed a ProLuber from Aircraft Spruce in my 3. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/proluber.php It doesn't circulate oil, but provides oil pressure before starting.
I installed a ProLuber from Aircraft Spruce in my 3. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/proluber.php It doesn't circulate oil, but provides oil pressure before starting.
Pre-Lubing before first start
Hi folks,
I was just wondering if you couldn't pull the top spark plugs, leave the ignition off and crank the engine for a while to pre-lub everything before that first start. Is that going to be effective?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
Hi folks,
I was just wondering if you couldn't pull the top spark plugs, leave the ignition off and crank the engine for a while to pre-lub everything before that first start. Is that going to be effective?
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wiring
San Ramon, CA
David Paule
Well Known Member
I think so.
Dave
Dave
logansc
Well Known Member
If you are only talking about getting oil throughout the engine prior to the first start (after overhaul, for example), you can make your own system with an old oil pump. If you rebuild a core, you will probably replace the oil pump; keep the old one and attach oil hoses and fittings to it that will allow you to connect it to the engine in place of the oil cooler. I borrowed the one I used, so I can't remember all the details, but there was a shaft fitted to the pump that we turned with a power screw gun.
IIRC, we put 2-3 quarts in the sump, then immersed the pump in 3-4 quarts in a clean bucket and ran the screw gun (18 volt, it takes some torque to move the oil) and pumped the bucket nearly dry into the engine. Just make sure you're turning the pump the correct direction (I think we had to run the screw gun counter-clockwise on this particular set up). Filled the sump to a total of 9 quarts IIRC (IO-540) and reconnected the engine to the oil cooler.
On first startup I had instant oil pressure, no wait at all. All that made prudent sense to me and the "system" we used hardly cost anything.
IIRC, we put 2-3 quarts in the sump, then immersed the pump in 3-4 quarts in a clean bucket and ran the screw gun (18 volt, it takes some torque to move the oil) and pumped the bucket nearly dry into the engine. Just make sure you're turning the pump the correct direction (I think we had to run the screw gun counter-clockwise on this particular set up). Filled the sump to a total of 9 quarts IIRC (IO-540) and reconnected the engine to the oil cooler.
On first startup I had instant oil pressure, no wait at all. All that made prudent sense to me and the "system" we used hardly cost anything.
MrNomad
Well Known Member
Home made pre-oiler systems
The goal is to have oil pressure to all of the bearings and lifters before spinning the crank whether manually or via the starter. In small block Chevy engines, you can attach a power drill to the oil pump shaft before installing the distributor and pressurize the whole system.
Yes, I'd be interested in seeing pictures of pre-oilers folks built for that first start. We're planning to start the 6A's O-360 in the next couple of weeks so this post was rather timely.
Thanks.
The goal is to have oil pressure to all of the bearings and lifters before spinning the crank whether manually or via the starter. In small block Chevy engines, you can attach a power drill to the oil pump shaft before installing the distributor and pressurize the whole system.
Yes, I'd be interested in seeing pictures of pre-oilers folks built for that first start. We're planning to start the 6A's O-360 in the next couple of weeks so this post was rather timely.
Thanks.
Bill Wightman
Well Known Member
Engine PreOiler: How-To
Here's my ACE brand engine pre oiler. Made mostly out of PVC to save cost, with brass fittings where needed.
Total Cost: $42.00
Main Body
The Main Body is 3" Sched 40 PVC pipe. OD is about 3.5" with a .216" wall.
The upper end of the MB is fitted with a threaded coupler that's glued on, and has internal threads for the cap.
The lower end of the MB is fitted with a plain cap, glued on.
Top Cap Assy
The Top Cap is the black plastic part, and has a hole drilled through it to accept a threaded brass bung that seals with a rubber washer. I used a pipe thread adapter to reduce the threads to what my shop air fitting would screw into.
Bottom Cap
The Bottom Cap is just a plain PVC cap, glued on. It also has a hole drilled in it to accept a bung similar to the one used on the top cap. Brass fittings are used to adapt from the bung to a ball valve, then to a nipple for the clear flex hose. The other end of the clear flex hose has a standard 1/8" male pipe fitting that screws into the back of the engine.
The place we hooked up to the motor, in the last photo, is where the stainless braided hose is connected, just to the right and just below the vacuum pump pad. Depending on your engine, there may be alternate ways to do this.
To use, just connect to the engine, and close the ball valve. Pour a couple quarts into the PreOiler, then screw the top cap on. Connect the shop air, and set to about 40 psi. Then open the ball valve, and whalla! Oil will flow through the upper engine galleries with gusto.
We put 4 quarts into the motor with the PreOiler, then 4 more down the stick. Spun the engine on the starter (plugs out) and we got instant oil pressure. Then we fired it up for a nice smooth start.
Disclaimer: Schedule 40 PVC isn't exactly real good stuff to use in high pressure situations. The 3" stuff is rated for 260 psi, but who knows about the bottom & top caps on this thing. Be cautious about how much pressure you use. We found 40 psi did the job: a little slow, but did it just fine.
Here's my ACE brand engine pre oiler. Made mostly out of PVC to save cost, with brass fittings where needed.
Total Cost: $42.00
Main Body
The Main Body is 3" Sched 40 PVC pipe. OD is about 3.5" with a .216" wall.
The upper end of the MB is fitted with a threaded coupler that's glued on, and has internal threads for the cap.
The lower end of the MB is fitted with a plain cap, glued on.
Top Cap Assy
The Top Cap is the black plastic part, and has a hole drilled through it to accept a threaded brass bung that seals with a rubber washer. I used a pipe thread adapter to reduce the threads to what my shop air fitting would screw into.
Bottom Cap
The Bottom Cap is just a plain PVC cap, glued on. It also has a hole drilled in it to accept a bung similar to the one used on the top cap. Brass fittings are used to adapt from the bung to a ball valve, then to a nipple for the clear flex hose. The other end of the clear flex hose has a standard 1/8" male pipe fitting that screws into the back of the engine.
The place we hooked up to the motor, in the last photo, is where the stainless braided hose is connected, just to the right and just below the vacuum pump pad. Depending on your engine, there may be alternate ways to do this.
To use, just connect to the engine, and close the ball valve. Pour a couple quarts into the PreOiler, then screw the top cap on. Connect the shop air, and set to about 40 psi. Then open the ball valve, and whalla! Oil will flow through the upper engine galleries with gusto.
We put 4 quarts into the motor with the PreOiler, then 4 more down the stick. Spun the engine on the starter (plugs out) and we got instant oil pressure. Then we fired it up for a nice smooth start.
Disclaimer: Schedule 40 PVC isn't exactly real good stuff to use in high pressure situations. The 3" stuff is rated for 260 psi, but who knows about the bottom & top caps on this thing. Be cautious about how much pressure you use. We found 40 psi did the job: a little slow, but did it just fine.
Last edited:
judoka5051
Well Known Member
Home Made Pre-Oiler
Here's an idea of mine I posted elsewhere. Sounds like it fits in this thread.
I did this for a C85 I have on my current plane. I'm thinking about something with higher volume for the RV.
This pre-oiler will pump the system to 20 pounds before I touch the prop. I leave it running until the engine starts then turn it off. This solve two problems. Dry starts, and lost oil pump prime. I run this pump with a cordless drill battery (also used for my intercom). I also posted a drawing to clarify the details. I got the idea when I flew behind a small continental that lost prime now and then. The entire system weighs less than 2 pounds.
Here's how I put together my pre-oiler. The engine was apart when I did this, so it was easy. If yours is together, you'll need to remove the oil screen assembly and oil tank. Now you going to Home Depot, make sure to take the oil screen assembly with you. You're going to need two sets of fittings, one for the oil pickup, and one for the injection side.
For the pickup side get a 1/4 barbed fitting with a female opposite end, a short nipple that will thread into it, and a nut for the inside of the tank. You'll also need a couple of fender washers and rubber washers to go on either side of the hole. The washers should just fit over the nipple. First I filled the oil tank with 3 quarts. It doesn't matter what you use, you'll be cleaning it after you drill the hole. I decided on three quarts for two reasons. I didn't want to pre-oil the engine with oil from the bottom of the sump since that's where any junk will accumulate, and if the fitting failed for any reason I didn't want ALL the oil to drain out.... OK, on the back of the tank drill a pilot hole at the 3 qt mark. This will be the oil pickup for the pre-oiler. You'll enlarge it later when you have all the parts ready to go. Once you have the parts in front of you it's easy to see what you need to do.
For the injection side you need to find a female tee that has the same thread as the oil temp sender hole (on the long axis). Get a nipple to join it to the oil screen assembly. The last thing you need is a 1/4 male thread barbed fitting to attach to the side port on the Tee that you've added. Now, the pump I used I geared and will hold pressure, but I didn't want to fly around with a foot of hose pressurized. Once the engine's running the oil pump would keep the hose from the pre-oiler to the engine pressurized with hot oil. So I made a check valve. The only thing added to the list of parts is a screw and finish nail, hi-tech right? I bought a long countersunk stainless steel screw with the top couple of inches unthreaded and cut off the threaded part. I slipped the now shortened screw into the barbed fitting that the pressure line from the pre-oiler feeds. Then I measured the depth of the screw when seated. I subtracted a 1/4 inch from that and drilled a small hole through the threaded part of the fitting (both sides). I slid the nail through and checked to make sure the "valve" would open and close without binding. Then I trimmed the nail until it did not interfere with the threads. I screwed it into the Tee and now the valve travel limiter (nail) is trapped by the outside threads.
The rest of the project is obvious, mount the pump to the firewall, hook up some hoses, and do a little wiring.
I bought the pump and hose kit on EBAY.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turb...2837446QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
(Keyword Search) Turbo electric oil evac pump
Thanks for playing along, Lance
Here's an idea of mine I posted elsewhere. Sounds like it fits in this thread.
I did this for a C85 I have on my current plane. I'm thinking about something with higher volume for the RV.
This pre-oiler will pump the system to 20 pounds before I touch the prop. I leave it running until the engine starts then turn it off. This solve two problems. Dry starts, and lost oil pump prime. I run this pump with a cordless drill battery (also used for my intercom). I also posted a drawing to clarify the details. I got the idea when I flew behind a small continental that lost prime now and then. The entire system weighs less than 2 pounds.
Here's how I put together my pre-oiler. The engine was apart when I did this, so it was easy. If yours is together, you'll need to remove the oil screen assembly and oil tank. Now you going to Home Depot, make sure to take the oil screen assembly with you. You're going to need two sets of fittings, one for the oil pickup, and one for the injection side.
For the pickup side get a 1/4 barbed fitting with a female opposite end, a short nipple that will thread into it, and a nut for the inside of the tank. You'll also need a couple of fender washers and rubber washers to go on either side of the hole. The washers should just fit over the nipple. First I filled the oil tank with 3 quarts. It doesn't matter what you use, you'll be cleaning it after you drill the hole. I decided on three quarts for two reasons. I didn't want to pre-oil the engine with oil from the bottom of the sump since that's where any junk will accumulate, and if the fitting failed for any reason I didn't want ALL the oil to drain out.... OK, on the back of the tank drill a pilot hole at the 3 qt mark. This will be the oil pickup for the pre-oiler. You'll enlarge it later when you have all the parts ready to go. Once you have the parts in front of you it's easy to see what you need to do.
For the injection side you need to find a female tee that has the same thread as the oil temp sender hole (on the long axis). Get a nipple to join it to the oil screen assembly. The last thing you need is a 1/4 male thread barbed fitting to attach to the side port on the Tee that you've added. Now, the pump I used I geared and will hold pressure, but I didn't want to fly around with a foot of hose pressurized. Once the engine's running the oil pump would keep the hose from the pre-oiler to the engine pressurized with hot oil. So I made a check valve. The only thing added to the list of parts is a screw and finish nail, hi-tech right? I bought a long countersunk stainless steel screw with the top couple of inches unthreaded and cut off the threaded part. I slipped the now shortened screw into the barbed fitting that the pressure line from the pre-oiler feeds. Then I measured the depth of the screw when seated. I subtracted a 1/4 inch from that and drilled a small hole through the threaded part of the fitting (both sides). I slid the nail through and checked to make sure the "valve" would open and close without binding. Then I trimmed the nail until it did not interfere with the threads. I screwed it into the Tee and now the valve travel limiter (nail) is trapped by the outside threads.
The rest of the project is obvious, mount the pump to the firewall, hook up some hoses, and do a little wiring.
I bought the pump and hose kit on EBAY.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turb...2837446QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
(Keyword Search) Turbo electric oil evac pump
Thanks for playing along, Lance
longranger
Well Known Member
Post #3 in a thread from about 5 months ago shows my setup for first start preoiling after overhaul.
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=63155
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=63155
