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Considering S-LSA purchase

finkj

I'm New Here
Is it ok to post about S-LSA in this forum? I didn't see a separate category.

Thanks!

Jon
 
RV-12 S-LSA

I did of course mean an RV-12. I live in the city in Philadelphia and building an airplane is not something I'm that interested in.. but I would love to own a Van's RV-12. I am taking a test flight next week. I'm would love to hear peoples thoughts especially on the purchase process etc, if anyone has been thru it..

Thanks!!

Jon
 
I would encourage anyone interested in learning about my experience to email or PM me. I purchased the S-LSA featured in this video this past April: http://www.bydanjohnson.com/index.cfm?b=6&m=5&id=327.

I chose this particular airplane for two reasons: 1. It was already on the East Coast (was featured at Sebring airshow and Sun N Fun) 2. It has the Garmin G3X touch. Also has a unique feature in that a Garmin Nuvi camera can be mounted at the tail tie down ring and connected directly to the G3X screen.

I added a second G3X touch screen - Vic Syracuse installed the kit from Van's for me - it was truly "plug and play". Other than the panel fitting/change and plugging in the cable (already in the harness), the only other change was upgrading the fuse for avionics from 5 amps to 7.5.

I have put just over 30 hours on the plane so far and absolutely love it. I flew 2 hours cross country just yesterday. The Garmin system has been flawless and has quite a few features that I absolutely love. The autopilot is incredibly easy to use: with the touch screen and the GMC305 controller, it's easy to set up to capture heading (or nav track), vertical speed or indicated airspeed, level off at pre-selected altitude, and then (using VNAV) automatically descend to pattern altitude. Of course I don't let it do all the flying...

Hand flying is very intuitive, and very responsive - good climb rate, great "feel", fast roll rate, easy to land (understanding the sensitivity of LSA to gusts - just requires attention to stick and rudder when landing). Slowing down to flap speed and descending to the pattern takes some attention - this airplane wants to stay in the air. Speed control on final is very important - over 60kts and it floats...

I'm getting TAS of 116-117 knots at 5400 RPM around 6000 feet, burning about 4.9-5 gph.

Van's has been very responsive to questions and other requests but the only real issue I have had is the Rotax carb floats - mine have been fine but have waited until last week for the new ones. I'm going to take it down to Lockwood week after next to have the new ones installed, and a scheduled oil change.

Build quality is superb, as is the paint job. I've compared to a few other RV-12's and find the quality to be better than most and equal to some of the best homebuilders.

Turner Billingsley
 
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You might also consider, as long as you're doing research, looking into buying an already-flying E-LSA. That would give you more latitude in ongoing owner performed maintenance and upgrades, while still holding open the option for having others perform any maintenance that you aren't comfortable with.
 
Brand new E-LSA available soon

You might also consider, as long as you're doing research, looking into buying an already-flying E-LSA. That would give you more latitude in ongoing owner performed maintenance and upgrades, while still holding open the option for having others perform any maintenance that you aren't comfortable with.


I'm going to have a brand new E-LSA that I'm building for sale within the next 30 days. I'm going through the Production Acceptance procedures now and I hope to be flying within a couple of weeks. I plan to do all the flight testing and a bit of fun flying.

It has the dual Garmin package and every option available from Vans. I plan to have Grady at GloCustom paint it, but I would sell it before it's painted if someone is interested.
 
You might also consider ... an already-flying E-LSA.... more latitude in ... owner performed maintenance....

+1

Given a choice between SLSA and ELSA, I really think the latter is the way to go.

Dan
 
I own SLSA number 35 which I bought from Van's in July 2014. I now have 107 hours on it and I'm very happy with it. I flew a Bonanza for 30 years and we have owned 7 other airplanes in the last 50 years. The RV12 is one of the most fun to fly. It ain't a Bonanza but I don't need that kind of flying anymore....no medical and "been there, done that" too.

The SLSA is a superb airplane and if you don't have 2-3 years to build one I think it's the way to go. With our son I have restored two antiques from the floor up which took 13 years in one case!! ....So I think I know about the building process; I enjoyed it because I had something else to fly while we were building. But "been there, done that" applies to that too.

The only problems I have had with my SLSA were small or not Van's fault: 1.)The stupid throttle spring problem; 2.)The lousy response of Rotax to the carb float SB and 3.)The failure of the voltage regulator. So far the SBs on Van's airframe are not a problem.

So fly http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon7.gif

EBB
 
You might also consider, as long as you're doing research, looking into buying an already-flying E-LSA. That would give you more latitude in ongoing owner performed maintenance and upgrades, while still holding open the option for having others perform any maintenance that you aren't comfortable with.

Another option is to purchase an SLSA and relicense it as an ELSA.
Probably not the cheapest option, but another possibility.
 
For Jonathan in Philly.....I really admire your for being a professional cellist!
I love Yo Yo Mah and Brahms, Beethoven, Sibelius and the rest. There's a music input between the RV12 seats just for that!

I bought my SLSA from Van's and then had it ferried here to San Diego. The purchase process was painless (except for writing the big checks) and Kaitlyn Tepe at Synergy Air and Gus Funnell at Van's were a delight to work with. They have continued to be a delight in the year since too.

I had the airplane ferried here after it was in my name by Jose Gutierrez an instructor at Aurora where the airplane was licensed by the FAA. My insurance company demanded five hours of dual and a new BFR which Jose gave me here in San Diego. I'm sure Jose or any of the other instructors on Van's pages can do that in Aurora or Medford. There also are some on the East Coast.

I would not recommend that a pilot new to the RV12 fly it cross country to San Diego or to Philly without a lot more experience than the insurance requirements. I am a CFI with about 6000 hours and experience in most GA airplanes and I wouldn't want to do that. After about 10 hours and some gusty cross winds and increased knowledge of the auto pilot (easy) etc. it would be OK. But this is not a C-172 or a 152; it's a very capable airplane that needs some attention to fly safely. You would also need some experience with high altitude and mountain flying if you don't have that already....the landscape out here is really pointy.

EBB
 
You will save a LOT of money buying a completed ELSA. Watch for the <corrected --> Eagle's Nest or Teen Flight ones for sale. The "mods" that many of us have done to our ELSAs is so very minor compared to what the EAB guys call mods. I mean, we think adding a canopy lock is a Big Deal! So don't let that "But ELSAs might have been modified!" nonsense worry you, just actually look at them. A good builder will have them well documented.
 
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See my post in classified page five

See the details listed in my rv 12 classified. I enjoy flying the 12 but my new RV 8 is almost finished.
 
You will save a LOT of money buying a completed ELSA. Watch for the Eagle flight ones for sale.

Bill probably means Eagles Nest and TeenFlight.

The TeenFlight III airplane is actually up for auction right now. Auction closes Sept 1.

More info HERE
 
You're very kind. I've always felt that flying and playing music are similar.. but that is another discussion.

Flying the airplane across the country VFR dosn't really seem like a great plan to me either.

I'm sure there are other options..

For Jonathan in Philly.....I really admire your for being a professional cellist!
I love Yo Yo Mah and Brahms, Beethoven, Sibelius and the rest. There's a music input between the RV12 seats just for that!

I bought my SLSA from Van's and then had it ferried here to San Diego. The purchase process was painless (except for writing the big checks) and Kaitlyn Tepe at Synergy Air and Gus Funnell at Van's were a delight to work with. They have continued to be a delight in the year since too.

I had the airplane ferried here after it was in my name by Jose Gutierrez an instructor at Aurora where the airplane was licensed by the FAA. My insurance company demanded five hours of dual and a new BFR which Jose gave me here in San Diego. I'm sure Jose or any of the other instructors on Van's pages can do that in Aurora or Medford. There also are some on the East Coast.

I would not recommend that a pilot new to the RV12 fly it cross country to San Diego or to Philly without a lot more experience than the insurance requirements. I am a CFI with about 6000 hours and experience in most GA airplanes and I wouldn't want to do that. After about 10 hours and some gusty cross winds and increased knowledge of the auto pilot (easy) etc. it would be OK. But this is not a C-172 or a 152; it's a very capable airplane that needs some attention to fly safely. You would also need some experience with high altitude and mountain flying if you don't have that already....the landscape out here is really pointy.

EBB
 
Thats great feedback. I still have a medical for now but really mostly will be doing local flying. I do wish I could file IFR for those times I want to go up thru new york. As I understand it you cannot file IFR with and LSA whether it is E or S .. correct?

I own SLSA number 35 which I bought from Van's in July 2014. I now have 107 hours on it and I'm very happy with it. I flew a Bonanza for 30 years and we have owned 7 other airplanes in the last 50 years. The RV12 is one of the most fun to fly. It ain't a Bonanza but I don't need that kind of flying anymore....no medical and "been there, done that" too.

The SLSA is a superb airplane and if you don't have 2-3 years to build one I think it's the way to go. With our son I have restored two antiques from the floor up which took 13 years in one case!! ....So I think I know about the building process; I enjoyed it because I had something else to fly while we were building. But "been there, done that" applies to that too.

The only problems I have had with my SLSA were small or not Van's fault: 1.)The stupid throttle spring problem; 2.)The lousy response of Rotax to the carb float SB and 3.)The failure of the voltage regulator. So far the SBs on Van's airframe are not a problem.

So fly http://www.vansairforce.com/community/images/icons/icon7.gif

EBB
 
I recommend accompanying your ferry pilot. Nothing teaches you more about an airplane than a long cross country.
 
Note Quite........

Thats great feedback. I still have a medical for now but really mostly will be doing local flying. I do wish I could file IFR for those times I want to go up thru new york. As I understand it you cannot file IFR with and LSA whether it is E or S .. correct?

With SLSA, operating limitations state that "IFR operations are authorized if allowed by the AOI and if the instruments specified in 91.205 are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."

ELSA operating limitations state that "Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in § 91.205(d) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."
 
So in the case of the RV-12 with its uncertified screens it would be no but if it had the necessary avionics installed, yes..is that correct?

With SLSA, operating limitations state that "IFR operations are authorized if allowed by the AOI and if the instruments specified in 91.205 are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."

ELSA operating limitations state that "Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in ? 91.205(d) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."
 
It is not the "uncertified screens" that is the issue - plenty of planes fly IFR with Skyview or G3X screens or other similar ones. It is that you need to add an IFR nav source.
 
For Jonathan in Philly.....I really admire your for being a professional cellist!
I love Yo Yo Mah and Brahms, Beethoven, Sibelius and the rest. There's a music input between the RV12 seats just for that!

I bought my SLSA from Van's and then had it ferried here to San Diego. The purchase process was painless (except for writing the big checks) and Kaitlyn Tepe at Synergy Air and Gus Funnell at Van's were a delight to work with. They have continued to be a delight in the year since too.

I had the airplane ferried here after it was in my name by Jose Gutierrez an instructor at Aurora where the airplane was licensed by the FAA. My insurance company demanded five hours of dual and a new BFR which Jose gave me here in San Diego. I'm sure Jose or any of the other instructors on Van's pages can do that in Aurora or Medford. There also are some on the East Coast.

I would not recommend that a pilot new to the RV12 fly it cross country to San Diego or to Philly without a lot more experience than the insurance requirements. I am a CFI with about 6000 hours and experience in most GA airplanes and I wouldn't want to do that. After about 10 hours and some gusty cross winds and increased knowledge of the auto pilot (easy) etc. it would be OK. But this is not a C-172 or a 152; it's a very capable airplane that needs some attention to fly safely. You would also need some experience with high altitude and mountain flying if you don't have that already....the landscape out here is really pointy.

EBB

I have EXACTLY the same SLSA as EBB…same color and options same…mine is #38 and his is #35. Even the color is the same! We both bought in July 2014.

I echo EBB's comments about Vans (Gus and Kaitlyn).

My insurance required just one hour of dual. The plane came with 4 or 5 I can't remember but I flew with Jose Gutierrez too. I also got one hour in my airplane before I flew it home. When I got the keys on Friday it had 5.9 hours TT including the hour I asked for.
The next day I began a 5 day trip from Vans across the USA to SC. I spent a lot of time planning the trip and asking for tips (including some great info here). I flew south to Bakersfield, across the desert to Blythe, Tuscon, El Paso, Sweetwater Texas, Tyler TX, Greenwood MS, Columbus GA and then home. The weather was good but hot and so I flew early morning to noon all but one day.
I found the airplane easy to fly and I was quick to learn Skyview and the airplane before I left OR. Again I have to say I'd studied everything I could find on the RV-12 before the trip.
I'm an experienced pilot having retired from professional flying but LSA was still pretty new to me although I've checked out in a Remos GX, Skycatcher and CTLS prior to buying the RV. This is MY experience and as EBB said a less experienced pilot might consider a co-pilot to accompany them. Vans can and do deliver new planes but not sure as to the cost of this.

I've had the airplane just over one year and have completed the first annual. The mechanic found a slightly leaking fuel line which required tightening a nut.
The problems I've experience have been the carb float debacle which has been really frustrating and I'm disappointed at the way Rotax has handled it. I've been lucky and got replacement floats quickly and even got my refund already.
I've found that the rear perspex near the fuel filler will craze with spilled fuel. Ask me how I know.
When fueling the fuel can geyser out if you pump too fast and/or spill as it reaches the top. Once spilled the perspex crazed near the filler cap. Really annoying and I wish I'd known about it before hand but no use crying over spilt milk, or spilt fuel!
The SkyView is brilliant…although my memory module recently had to be replaced. Apparently mine was one which had the old less reliable module. Overall Dynon handled it okay…but..the 10 business day downtime tuned into almost 15 and I had to pay $135 just to ship it back. They paid for shipping on the return but I feel I shouldn't have had to pay anything for a unit less than a year old and the plane was down for best part of a month including shipping the unit back and forth.
That said, I'm a fan of the Dynon avionics in my plane and the updates have been good from Dynon.
The Rotax engine is great…but..for me and the SLSA…I looked hard at finding a Rotax qualified mechanic before I bought the plane. The Vans Service center is over an hour flight time away and Lockwood is 4 hours. I've thought about taking the service/LSRM courses but I'm not experienced in repairing things and I have few tools so I'm hesitant to go that way, for now anyway.
I'm also not interested in going ELSA for much the same reasons.
I chose to buy rather than build. My hangar neighbor has been building his RV12 for 6 years and is about 2/3 done…I chose to buy SLSA and fly right away and in my first year have flown just under 150 hours. He only works on it weekends still he has had to buy quite a few tools and other things to help with the building process. it's taken so long that he's had to incorporate the new mods as they come along. I find the idea of building interesting but not practical, for ME anyway.
I also researched the availability of hangars and mogas. I'm lucky to have an airfield fairly close with 93 non-ethanol on the pumps as well as a couple of gas stations nearby. One has 93 for $2.99 gallon which requires me to schlepp it to the airfield but it doesn't take long to fill the plane and I'm adept at keeping it supplied. In the last 6 months I've only bought 2.5 gals of 100LL but I use Decalin whenever I do. This Fall I'll take a trip to the NorthEast where 93 is scarce and will use more 100LL however the vast majority of fuel is 93. I have a friend with a CTLS using 100LL all the time and he's had some engine issues with lead.
My mission has been to get a plane I can move myself, do basic servicing, is basically simple fun flying where I don't need anyone to help me. I'll never trailer or remove the wings. In that regard if I had my wish, Vans would make the option of fixed wings and 2 12-15 gallon wing tanks instead to provide longer range. Admittedly this would probably be solo due to weight but it would provide the option as well as allowing for more value (not weight necessarily) in the baggage area.
I love that Vans proved me with 765lbs empty weight and w/b is simple. Basically I can always carry 2 x 200 lb folks, full fuel and about 35lbs of bags. Since I fly solo almost exclusively w/b is simple.
The plane flies very well, excellently in fact. I would have preferred a high wing and looked at a Tecnam and a Cessna but now I love the visibility. The only drawback is the sun on the iPad which I have as a backup to SkyView. The screen isn't as bright as SV. I got Foreflight on iPad after the SVfailed in flight. That day I literally had to land with nothing other than the radio so FF does provide some level of backup although still no EMS.
If I bought today I would give serious thought to a second screen IF it had it's own ADHRS to provide really fully capable backup but that does increase the cost.
I highly recommend a trip the MD to fly with Mitch Lock before you buy. While you're up that way take a flight also in Cheseapeake Sport's new SLSA before you buy. It may help in your decision process.

I'm really glad I bought my SLSA and I'd also like to say how helpful the VAF site has been, and continues to be. Pilots, owners and builders helping each other has proved invaluable.

Good luck in whatever you decide!:D
 
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Great post thanks!

I'm flying with Mitch next week. I would also never remove wings and wish they didn't come off. A 2nd screen (only if a backup) would be nice. REading alot about the fuel/rear window crazing issue. That seems like it needs a solution.

Your experience as a professional pilot makes you a much better candidate to fly it cross country on 1 hour training..:)

Thanks again-really good stuff.

I echo EBB's comments about Vans (Gus and Kaitlyn).

My insurance required just one hour of dual. The plane came with 4 or 5 I can't remember but I flew with Jose Gutierrez too. I also got one hour in my airplane before I flew it home. When I got the keys on Friday it had 5.9 hours TT including the hour I asked for.
The next day I began a 5 day trip from Vans across the USA to SC. I spent a lot of time planning the trip and asking for tips (including some great info here). I flew south to Bakersfield, across the desert to Blythe, Tuscon, El Paso, Sweetwater Texas, Tyler TX, Greenwood MS, Columbus GA and then home. The weather was good but hot and so I flew early morning to noon all but one day.
I found the airplane easy to fly and I was quick to learn Skyview and the airplane before I left OR. Again I have to say I'd studied everything I could find on the RV-12 before the trip.
I'm an experienced pilot having retired from professional flying but LSA was still pretty new to me although I've checked out in a Remos GX, Skycatcher and CTLS prior to buying the RV. This is MY experience and as EBB said a less experienced pilot might consider a co-pilot to accompany them. Vans can and do deliver new planes but not sure as to the cost of this.

I've had the airplane just over one year and have completed the first annual. The mechanic found a slightly leaking fuel line which required tightening a nut.
The problems I've experience have been the carb float debacle which has been really frustrating and I'm disappointed at the way Rotax has handled it. I've been lucky and got replacement floats quickly and even got my refund already.
I've found that the rear perspex near the fuel filler will craze with spilled fuel. Ask me how I know.
When fueling the fuel can geyser out if you pump too fast and/or spill as it reaches the top. Once spilled the perspex crazed near the filler cap. Really annoying and I wish I'd known about it before hand but no use crying over spilt milk, or spilt fuel!
The SkyView is brilliant?although my memory module recently had to be replaced. Apparently mine was one which had the old less reliable module. Overall Dynon handled it okay?but..the 10 business day downtime tuned into almost 15 and I had to pay $135 just to ship it back. They paid for shipping on the return but I feel I shouldn't have had to pay anything for a unit less than a year old and the plane was down for best part of a month including shipping the unit back and forth.
That said, I'm a fan of the Dynon avionics in my plane and the updates have been good from Dynon.
The Rotax engine is great?but..for me and the SLSA?I looked hard at finding a Rotax qualified mechanic before I bought the plane. The Vans Service center is over an hour flight time away and Lockwood is 4 hours. I've thought about taking the service/LSRM courses but I'm not experienced in repairing things and I have few tools so I'm hesitant to go that way, for now anyway.
I'm also not interested in going ELSA for much the same reasons.
I chose to buy rather than build. My hangar neighbor has been building his RV12 for 6 years and is about 2/3 done?I chose to buy SLSA and fly right away and in my first year have flown just under 150 hours. He only works on it weekends still he has had to buy quite a few tools and other things to help with the building process. it's taken so long that he's had to incorporate the new mods as they come along. I find the idea of building interesting but not practical, for ME anyway.
I also researched the availability of hangars and mogas. I'm lucky to have an airfield fairly close with 93 non-ethanol on the pumps as well as a couple of gas stations nearby. One has 93 for $2.99 gallon which requires me to schlepp it to the airfield but it doesn't take long to fill the plane and I'm adept at keeping it supplied. In the last 6 months I've only bought 2.5 gals of 100LL but I use Decalin whenever I do. This Fall I'll take a trip to the NorthEast where 93 is scarce and will use more 100LL however the vast majority of fuel is 93. I have a friend with a CTLS using 100LL all the time and he's had some engine issues with lead.
My mission has been to get a plane I can move myself, do basic servicing, is basically simple fun flying where I don't need anyone to help me. I'll never trailer or remove the wings. In that regard if I had my wish, Vans would make the option of fixed wings and 2 12-15 gallon wing tanks instead to provide longer range. Admittedly this would probably be solo due to weight but it would provide the option as well as allowing for more value (not weight necessarily) in the baggage area.
I love that Vans proved me with 765lbs empty weight and w/b is simple. Basically I can always carry 2 x 200 lb folks, full fuel and about 35lbs of bags. Since I fly solo almost exclusively w/b is simple.
The plane flies very well, excellently in fact. I would have preferred a high wing and looked at a Tecnam and a Cessna but now I love the visibility. The only drawback is the sun on the iPad which I have as a backup to SkyView. The screen isn't as bright as SV. I got Foreflight on iPad after the SVfailed in flight. That day I literally had to land with nothing other than the radio so FF does provide some level of backup although still no EMS.
If I bought today I would give serious thought to a second screen IF it had it's own ADHRS to provide really fully capable backup but that does increase the cost.
I highly recommend a trip the MD to fly with Mitch Lock before you buy. While you're up that way take a flight also in Cheseapeake Sport's new SLSA before you buy. It may help in your decision process.

I'm really glad I bought my SLSA and I'd also like to say how helpful the VAF site has been, and continues to be. Pilots, owners and builders helping each other has proved invaluable.

Good luck in whatever you decide!:D[/QUOTE]
 
I've trained in an RV12 for my PPL. I don't understand EBB's comment about cross country in this plane. It's easy to fly! Very responsive and very easy to land smoothly just like any other plane, fly the #'s and it will take care of itself.

The 12 does not like to land with power and the POH states to pull the throttle to idle abeam of the #'s so every landing is a dead stick landing sort of.

Did I mention it's responsive? Where I am at there are severe (by some's standards) X Winds. I solo'd with a 12G15 knot cross and have landed it with 15G20 with no real difficulty. It doesn't like to sink in big cross winds but you can slip it down with some experience.

The plane I fly has the Gamin panel and this will downright spoil you! The Autopilot and Radio's are all integrated to the touch screen so once you put in the airport code, it pulls the radio freq and just touch the screen and your loaded!! I learned how great this was by jumping into a Cherokee 140!

Auto pilot is easy to use as well.

If it were faster to meet my ultimate missions I'd buy an SLSA!
 
Really?

.... I solo'd with a 12G15 knot cross and have landed it with 15G20 with no real difficulty. ...

Wow, you have extraordinary intrinsic flying abilities or an extremely confident CFI to sign you off to solo in an LSA in those conditions... Not a criticism, just an observation. I have about 150 hours in RV-12s and generally avoid flying with gusty cross winds when I can. Just isn't enjoyable in such a light aircraft.
 
I don't want this thread to turn into a game of one-upmanship, but if you don't fly when the winds blowing, you're not going to get much air time. I've been from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and from the UP of Michigan to the Keys and at some point, you will need to land in a crosswind. Although the -12 has a stated maximum CW component of 12 knots, you can land in much higher winds with practice. There is ample rudder control on the 12, you just don't want to get too slow, and you want to keep the nose gear from scrubbing sideways.

Find an airport with multiple runways and go out and have a little fun. I landed ONCE in the 12 with a 25-30 knot cross up in the mountains because I needed fuel. I didn't plan that stop out very well. I didn't bend or break anything but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. (and I am not an exceptionally skilled pilot, just average at best.)
 
Wow, you have extraordinary intrinsic flying abilities or an extremely confident CFI to sign you off to solo in an LSA in those conditions... Not a criticism, just an observation. I have about 150 hours in RV-12s and generally avoid flying with gusty cross winds when I can. Just isn't enjoyable in such a light aircraft.

Ditto those sentiments. I would not even consider signing off a student for first solo in those conditions in ANY airplane, let alone a LS. And you can consider this a criticism if you wish.
 
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Ditto those sentiments. I would not even consider signing off a student for first solo in those conditions in ANY airplane, let alone a LS. And you can consider this a criticism is you wish.

If this is going to be a hand slapping day then I should never post on this forum.

It's was NOT my first landing in a cross wind, obviously, and I din't think it was that difficult. However, I see where you are coming from. There' a female CFI at the school that wouldn't even do a 6 knot cross wind in this plane.
 
I don't want this thread to turn into a game of one-upmanship, but if you don't fly when the winds blowing, you're not going to get much air time. I've been from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and from the UP of Michigan to the Keys and at some point, you will need to land in a crosswind. Although the -12 has a stated maximum CW component of 12 knots, you can land in much higher winds with practice. There is ample rudder control on the 12, you just don't want to get too slow, and you want to keep the nose gear from scrubbing sideways.

Find an airport with multiple runways and go out and have a little fun. I landed ONCE in the 12 with a 25-30 knot cross up in the mountains because I needed fuel. I didn't plan that stop out very well. I didn't bend or break anything but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. (and I am not an exceptionally skilled pilot, just average at best.)

Exactly. It's far better to be able and not have to than to have to and not be able.

Everyone needs to learn and plan for the worst and hope for the best. I'll bet a lot of people, not just RV12 pilots, will not fly in the rain. (Not talking days with a low ceiling, nor non VFR) I solo'd at a second school (the very next day) in a Cherokee in the rain and all the other students were, "aren't you afraid of the rain? Ceiling was 4500' with 4 miles visibility, what's the problem with the weather?

I feel you need to learn this, accept this, and embrace this and RESPECT this as this is flying. Your going to get up there and the time between take off an and landing things are most likely going to change, and unfortunately not for the best at times.
 
Exactly. It's far better to be able and not have to than to have to and not be able.

Everyone needs to learn and plan for the worst and hope for the best. I'll bet a lot of people, not just RV12 pilots, will not fly in the rain. (Not talking days with a low ceiling, nor non VFR) I solo'd at a second school (the very next day) in a Cherokee in the rain and all the other students were, "aren't you afraid of the rain? Ceiling was 4500' with 4 miles visibility, what's the problem with the weather?

I feel you need to learn this, accept this, and embrace this and RESPECT this as this is flying. Your going to get up there and the time between take off an and landing things are most likely going to change, and unfortunately not for the best at times.

I agree. It's a question of timing. Normally we do not seek out those conditions for first solo when student is not very experienced and is probably pretty nervous to start with. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances in your case. Not slapping hands, just surprised.
 
I don't personally fly my RV-12 in the rain….because it might damage the paint!

I chose sport flying after a career as a professional pilot precisely because I want to fly when it's fun, calm, relatively cool with mostly light winds. This is basically what the sport license encompasses and for which the RV-12 was built.
During my career I've flown in all weathers from CAVOK to Cat IIIB auto land with 600RVR. These days I just like to fly for fun and don't care about rain, fog or extreme crosswinds.

Whilst being able to fly in rain and crosswinds which exceed the POH limitations is okay to a degree…there is no prize for doing it, and certainly no reason to encourage new owners and pilots to do it, especially if their flying experience is more limited.
One bad flight, a poor weather decision, or stretching their personal comfort level and limitations can do a huge disservice to their confidence level and their enjoyment as a new owner and pilot.

Let's not forget that:)
 
well said Top Cat....

Whilst being able to fly in rain and crosswinds which exceed the POH limitations is okay to a degree?there is no prize for doing it, and certainly no reason to encourage new owners and pilots to do it, especially if their flying experience is more limited.
One bad flight, a poor weather decision, or stretching their personal comfort level and limitations can do a huge disservice to their confidence level and their enjoyment as a new owner and pilot.

Let's not forget that:)[/QUOTE]
 
With SLSA, operating limitations state that "IFR operations are authorized if allowed by the AOI and if the instruments specified in 91.205 are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."

ELSA operating limitations state that "Instrument flight operations are authorized if the instruments specified in ? 91.205(d) are installed, operational, and maintained in accordance with the applicable requirements of part 91."

The RV-12 POH (page 2-2) says "WARNING Flight in IFR/IMC conditions is prohibited." However, the RV-12 isn't offered with IFR instruments. IF the required instruments were added, would Van's issue a POH amendment that authorized IFR operations? I ask, because I know a flight school operator who wants to add a new or late model glass panel airplane to his fleet, but the plane has to be suitable for instrument training in actual IMC -- nothing heavy, just morning low clouds that are common in his (and my) part of the country. I'd love to be able to encourage him to get an RV-12.
 
Was the 12G15 the crosswind component or the actual wind at some angle less than 90 to the centerline?

Direct 90. Mind you AWOS is not 100% accurate as there can be a cross wind at one end of the runway and a tail wind at the other. Hence the need to do a pass over the runway to check the actual prevailing winds not just the automated report.

I'm not preaching that everyone should, could nor will want to do this, just that with proper training it is possible to do things safely. Sometimes your going to encounter a situation whereby your going to NEED to know how to handle some sort of cross winds and unexpected situations while in-flight. It's easy to say no go on the ground but when you are coming in for a landing you really don't have a choice of liking it, just applying what you know and handling it in the most safe manner that you possibly can. If not hopefully you can divert to a location with a better outlook.
 
Interesting, Rik. Glad it worked out, but as a CFI I would not have soloed a student in that wind condition -- I got too many assets at risk!😁
 
Interesting, Rik. Glad it worked out, but as a CFI I would not have soloed a student in that wind condition -- I got too many assets at risk!😁
Ditto. Why take unnecessary risks, both to your reputation and assets, and to the student's safety and well being.
 
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