Buying an RV6A - ?'s and ferry

Hello all -

I am in the final throws of purchasing an already flying RV6A. I have plenty of questions as I have never even sat in one yet. (remedying that today) The gentleman that I am buying from has been very helpful and patient with me thus far and I appreciate he's guidance through the process. I did have a few questions that are probably better asked here.

A little background on me before the questions - I have 180 hours, most of which in a 172, a lot in an arrow, and about 30 hours in a cirrus. Of those 180 hours, about 125 have been with an instructor during PPL and IFR training. Got my IFR ticket about a month ago.

The plane is in California and I am in Louisiana. I need to get it back here and get some transition training. I have located a transition trainer here in my hometown who can handle that part, but he is unavailable to ferry the plane back. I got an insurance quote ($1,400) and it only requires 1 hour and a sign off from a CFI. I know that I will need more than that to be competent. What I would really like to do is to fly back with the ferry pilot and make the legs more like 2 hours with touch and goes and/or a few approaches along the way to get used to the plane. That trip, along with a few hours with the trainer here, and I believe I would be comfortable in it solo. Anybody know someone who would be willing to make that trip with me?

Now on to the questions -

1) - This plane has the O-360 with a FP prop. I have never flown a plane with cowl flaps and I only have a few hours in a carbureted plane - I know I will need some instruction on those two items. Anything else about that engine that I need to know that might not be obvious to a newb?

2). The plane has the dynon sky view 10" panels. I have played with the HDX system a little bit, but never the sky view. Are there any good videos online that I can watch to get familiar with that system?

3). The builder has certified the plane at 1800lbs MGW. I have talked to quite a few people who say that the 6 is way over engineered and can handle more than the 1600 that vans states. How safe is that 1800 lb weight? empty weight is 1100 so you have 700lbs to play with - 240 for full fuel leaves you at 460 for px and luggage. That would handle pretty much any loading that I would be hauling, but if you used vans number of 1600 im pretty much by myself or reducing fuel.

Im sure there will be more questions but that is more than enough for now.

Thanks!

That would be a great ideal to do just that, fly back with whomever you get to ferry it back for you.

Empty weight on my 6 is 1077#, but that's with a C/S prop. Gross on it is listed at 1,600 lbs, and the 6A 1,650. I've flown it @ 1,700#, but didn't like how it flew on hot days, particularly on take off and climb. Just not as responsive and sluggish compared to flying with considerably less weight and cooler days. Nowadays, if it's warm weather and I have a Bubba on board, I empty half of my right tank.

Van's lists the 6A empty at 985#. Since you said it was fixed prop, curious how empty weight got it up to 1,100. Perhaps a super nice paint job made it a bit heavier, and is it IFR? Regardless, plenty come in around that weight.

I believe VAF is a little slower on the weekends, but I'm sure they will be plenty along that can be of much more help to you than me.

BTW, if you go through with it, you're going to love this plane!

It has O2 - Im sure that tank and equipment weight make up some of that difference. Paint is usually 15-20 lbs right? Not that far off.

The RV will be vastly more fun than either an Arrow or a Cirrus, but with low total time a few differences will bother you at first:

The carburated engine will be easier to start hot, but harder to run lean of peak. Also it may be prone to carb icing at low power in humid air (humid like louisiana, so be careful with extended low power descents).

The controls will seem very light, even twitchy at first. You'll tend to wobble and overcontrol. After you get used to this it will seem normal, and the arrow or cirrus will feel like driving a bread truck.

You know how the Cirrus is much harder to slow down than the Arrow when it's dirty? The RV with a FP prop is like that but 10 times worse. It's not hard, but with a FP prop you need to plan and fly your approaches more carefully, since you just don't have much drag to play with.

The Arrow and the Cirrus both have stall warning horns, and they both give lots of warning (buffeting, etc.) before they break. The RV6/A has an absurdly low stall speed, but it has little or no stall warning compared to what you've been flying. It just suddenly quits flying, probably in the high 40s. Stall recovery is much quicker though, really just relaxing the stick a little and it's flying again.

You definitely need to spend a lot of time getting comfortable with slow flight with your instructor.

You'll want to touch down way too fast at first--remember to let the airplane tell you when it's done flying and keep the nosewheel off the runway. The RV nosewheel is fine, but it's springier and more delicate than the one on the Cirrus.

Taxiing is just like the Cirrus, be careful to not overheat the brakes.

You're going to love the airplane

Latech15 said:

1) - This plane has the O-360 with a FP prop. I have never flown a plane with cowl flaps and I only have a few hours in a carbureted plane - I know I will need some instruction on those two items. Anything else about that engine that I need to know that might not be obvious to a newb?

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Note that most RV's do not have cowl flaps, so this one must have a reason. Possibly just because it's in California, needs a little extra airflow?

3). The builder has certified the plane at 1800lbs MGW. I have talked to quite a few people who say that the 6 is way over engineered and can handle more than the 1600 that vans states. How safe is that 1800 lb weight? empty weight is 1100 so you have 700lbs to play with - 240 for full fuel leaves you at 460 for px and luggage. That would handle pretty much any loading that I would be hauling, but if you used vans number of 1600 im pretty much by myself or reducing fuel.

Click to expand...

I'd recommend doing a search on here for RV-6 gross weight and reading some of the past discussions. Some highlights:
- It's believed that the 6A gets another 50lb due to a max landing weight limitation... The implication is that the 6 can *fly* with the extra 50lb and stay within limits, but shouldn't be landed over 1600lb.
- Van's has not authorized a gross weight increase beyond 1600/1650 lb for the RV-6 design. There have been claims that Van used to issue letters on a one-off basis authorizing increases, but in 20 years I have not been able to get anyone to produce a copy of one. I don't believe they exist.
- Without knowing where the extra weight is located on your airplane, which weighs over 100lb more than the design value, it would be imprudent to comment on the effect of operating yours at 1800lb gross.

To the original request,

If you're still looking for a CFI to ferry the plane with you, PM me for a name. My neighbor (near Jackson MS) is a high time pilot/CFII, and builder of around a half dozen planes including an RV-8. I mentioned your request this afternoon & he said to give you his name. As a bonus, he's from Louisiana.

Charlie

Latech15 said:

It has O2 - Im sure that tank and equipment weight make up some of that difference. Paint is usually 15-20 lbs right? Not that far off.

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I see. 1,100 lbs is definitely in the ballpark of what many come in at. Your tricycle gear is another 20# over taildragger. I suppose all the inside is primered too, if so, that's giving up a few more lbs, but many think helps its resale value. Best I recall from reading a decade or so ago, Dick Vansgrunven said you could paint one with very little weight with numbers you mentioned. It wouldn't win any paint awards, but it was lightweight and practical. Best I recall, it was two coats, first basically a dusting, and second going on wet. I think he might have used a primerless paint system too, forgot all the details.

Here's a very brief thread on heavy 6 and 6A's, with the OP asking whether his plane needs to go on a diet. One guy's plane came in at 1,200 empty. A poster thought that C of G was more critical than the gross; I bet he's right. One set his gross weight at 1,800, another 1,850.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=139189

This is the last weekend before Oshkosh, so I'm afraid it will also limit amount the replies you normally would get.

So after talking to quite a few folks, I have come up with a plan -

Go out a couple days early. Fly with the current owner/builder for a day or so. Have some transition training the next day or so, and have the ferry pilot join me at that point for the trip back. Once I get back, I would probably spend some more time with a trainer around here shooting approaches etc.

Based upon my flight the other day, I feel like 2-3 days of transition training and I would be able to make the trip by myself, but that extra insurance of having an experienced guy sitting next to me would make me feel much better.

Thanks for all the help guys.

Now on to planning the trip back. Any suggestions for navigating all the airspace out there? I understand it is "just follow I-10" once you get to Tuscon or so, but how about getting out of Cali? VFR or IFR?

wrongway john said:

you could paint one with very little weight with numbers you mentioned. It wouldn't win any paint awards, but it was lightweight and practical.

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I'm gonna disagree slightly here on paint weight. Done properly, paint can add little weight. My paint job added 19 lbs., has won numerous awards, and looks as good as it did in 1993. Two coats of single stage Jet-Glo.

I stand to be corrected, then. Kind of hoping I was wrong, have fuzzy memory from what I gathered from that old Dick Vansgrunven article over the years concerning paint.

My 6a is 1090 and it is a 160 hp.

I wouldn?t load to 1800 I?d go 1700 but the 180 May give you enough cushion
Gross weight is rarely the issue it?s more about aft CG than gross IMO.

The RV6 is a re,arkable airplane goes fast well goes slow well. Can?t beat it IMO
I plan for 80 mph on final and most guys I know do the same, takes a little bit of eeffort to slow it down to 100 for flaps sometimes so got to pitch the nose up and when it slows it slows quickly so watch those speeds it?ll get mushy around 70 and break into a stall right at 62 in my airplane.

It will deacend quickly at 80 mph but takes forever at 90 so being on your speeds is critical in the pattern. Makes getting into shorter fields or over obstacles so much easier than a 172 or an archer. I started with 200 in my six and was worried and would have needed to be worried without good transition training because it acts so different than a 172 or an archer but once you?ve transitioned it?ll be hard to go back to a 172 or an archer .

These airplanes are magical and the RV grin is no BS. You?ll be so happy you bought one. Just a pleasure to fly every time. The archer will feel like driving a tank after flying in a six for a while. Lol