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Time to get off the fence...

GoWhere?

Member
I have been on the fence about buying an RV for a couple of years, and the time has finally come. After three trips to OSH, countless hours of lurking upon this forum, and numerous build log observations; I have realized that I am not endowed with time or space or motivation to build. I am left with the decision of what to buy. I have decided on these necessities: O(or IO)-360 and a constant speed prop. I would like a -7 or a -7a, due to child and spousal maintenance being best served by non-tandem seating. That being said, the real question is -7 or -7A?

I fly out of Laramie, WY at 7200 feet. We frequently (by which I mean pretty much any time past 6am) have high density altitudes and a high probability of strong, gusty winds. I have a fair number of flight hours (3500 ish), but not a lot of tailwheel time (I just got my endorsement from Greg Koontz- in conjunction with basic aerobatic training). Part of me thinks the location and my experience favor a -7A, and part of me thinks "just get a taildragger and commence to learning."

So, my questions to the good and qualified folks here on the VAF forums: What are your experiences with flying your tailwheel RV's? Have you ever felt limited? Have you ever wished for the crosswind capabilities of a tricycle gear?
 
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Welcome to VAF!

Ian, welcome aboard the good ship VAF :D

Good that you are finally climbing down off that fence-----------was about to call the fire dept.
 
Bunch of Bonanza time, 3 hours in a Champ to get an endorsement. At first any time the breeze blew I was very aprehensive about landing the RV. Now with a few hundred taildragger hours, the wind is not a real concern flying a tailwheel RV. Light airplane, slow stall speed, springy landing gear, those are more of an issue than just a crosswind.
 
Wyoming - - hmmmm - - you might just think about where you would land. The tailwheel might just open up more destination possibilities. If these are not on your list, then why not just buy the plane that presents itself? I had selected slider and nose wheel in my early dreams, but a good deal came up and here I am with TW and tip-up. I don't think there is a big gap between the choices. Selecting a good example of either is another issue.
 
3500 Hours?

I do not think a tail wheel would be any problem to learn with those hours.

Now Laramie WY, that IS the windy city, not Chicago.

Even though I do not have any TW time and need the endorsement, I'm still building a TW slider. It just seems cool to me so the TW will be another learning opportunity.

Go for what you want and what fits your mission.

My $00.02
 
I think Bill has the right idea:

It took me a long time to find my RV-8. I looked at a lot of planes (both RV-4's and RV-8's) and sorry to say, some were real dogs. I found it difficult to find a plane that was solid, well built, and had my minimums (tailwheel, 180hp and C/S prop). I ended up compromising on other things that I started out thinking were MUST HAVES - things like fuel injection and inverted oil.

And I'm extremely happy with the outcome.

So, in my opinion, if you know you want a -7, then look at all -7's and pick the best built safest airplane. Concentrate on finding the best -7 you can find. If it's tip up with a nosewheel, then it's tip up with a nosewheel.
 
If you want to see where you are going during taxi, (here is where you run into things) do sit in each so you can see what you are missing.

A's don't bounce quite as easily as TD's

A's will flip over!! It's not a question if, but when........... just joking

Just take a look and see what puts a smile on your face........ If it's an RV, you will love it.
 
I have been scrounging around on the web for some time, and paying attention to some of my friends that have gone through the buying process...and, along with what you all have said, I have generally decided that the "buy what is best built" philosophy is good.

Thanks to all the folks that have taken the time to reply!!

Anybody have knowledge of a good -7 or -7A out there? :)
 
Buy the plane you want and learn to fly it.

The RV's have so much control authority that handling a cross wind is not a concern. (I have landed in a 32 kt direct cross wind, which is about the limit for my plane and my skills.)
 
My Uncle bases his RV-8 at Phifer for many years, and is all over WY in the TW plane. If you want i can put you in touch with him to talk about serious Wyo wind and RV's.

deek
 
Gut.

At this point in my RV flying career I actually think it's harder to get around in an A model.

My belief is go with your gut feel, your first instinct. Don't overanalyze it. A little bit of training will make you perfectly proficient in either model. And feel free to ignore all of this advice! ;-)

And welcome to the greatest hobby on earth.

Kindest and best,
Doug
 
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Like You

I'm a lot like you. Lurked, admired from a distance, and made Sun'N Fun / Osh like true devotee. Came close to pulling the trigger on a build but, for one of the few times in my life, careful introspection overcame desire. So, I bought my RV-4. Putting your requirements down in print is important. It allows you to focus. But, I agree you have to be flexible. I wanted, and bought, a taildragger. I wasn't even qualified to fly the airplane when I bought it and had to have it delivered. I've never looked back. A taildragger opens up an entirely different world of experience and opportunity. I'd be much more comfortable taking my conventional gear plane into a rough or short field than I would a trike. Remember how all that soft field stuff was focused on getting the nose wheel light quickly? Forget that with your taildragger. And, the two very different types of landings offer a wider range "tools" to address the various runways you'll offer. Wheel landings make sense sometimes - three pointers other. You don't get get that kind of flexibility with a trike.

That said, I considered a few very nice -8 trikes that were available. In the end though, the -4 was the right choice for me and you don't get a choice with the -4.

Frankly, with less than 25 hours of taildragger time, I'm still being careful about the situations I expose myself to in the -4. But, I've had and handled some 10 knot, steady (not gusting) 90 degree crosswinds already and they weren't a problem. Yes, you'll have to understand and use good technique but beyond that, it's not a major step beyond a trike. Making the transitions as the tail comes down (in a wheel landing) or ensuring you have adequate control authority in a three pointer, is the key.

You got some top-level instruction already. My advice - go with the little wheel in the back. If more than a few months go by during your search, get a refresher before you fly your new airplane and then just manage your risk. Start out with calmer winds and work your way up.

Good luck with your search. Wait for the really nice, perfect airplane. They are out there but they go fast!
Randy
 
I made the decision to buy my RV-8 instead of build. I bought it in February with just over 100 hours TT. I did transition training with Mike Seager in an RV-7 and received my TW endorsement after 10 hours.

For me the RV-8 handles crosswinds better than the C172 and Citabria I learned in.

My own personal limits are what have been holding me back. In the Cessna I limited myself to 8 kts of crosswind. I carried that over to the RV-8 but found I could exceed that under control and get down safely. The more I try, the better I get.

I occasionally fly tricycle gear 182's. What a beast compared to my 8.

Finding a quality RV-8 took sometime but it was worth it.
 
7-7a?

Both are fine airplanes. The tail wheel will be better for landing on grass, gravel strips.
Same old thing! Define your mission.
 
Thank you all for your responses! I have always suffered from career ADHD, and one of the great joys of aviation has been the fact that, as pilots, we get the chance to keep learning. So, when it comes to defining my mission: I want an airplane that will allow me the opportunity to keep learning. It is encouraging to hear from all the folks that said "I am just gonna build/buy the plane, and worry about flying it later." You have collectively done a great job of helping me distill my thoughts about this.
 
I agree with Jay...define your mission is an important step.

For me, I didn't have an operational "need" for a tailwheel, but with loads of trike time (from 150's all the way to 777's) and very little conventional experience, I "wanted" to discover what flying them was like. That became my "mission"-to challenge myself to learn (and fly) something new. The Old Dog wanted to see if he could still learn a few new tricks....

Once I defined my mission (only took a few weeks) the balance of my ~12+ month quest was spent finding the right aircraft...there is lots of varying definitions of build quality out there and finding someone to mentor you on what to look for/avoid can be a Godsend. (Frequent contributor Walt Aronow saved me big $$$ from making some mistakes here.) Finding someone like that to help you is a big step towards being happy with what you eventually end up with.

I am still wet enough behind the ears on the tailwheel stuff (<75 hours) that I self-impose a lot of limitations until my experience grows-I won't dispatch myself into conditions that will require a level of expertise to successfully navigate that's above my current skillset.

Some of that means I won't fly on days with high crosswinds, or that I limit my XC airports to ones that have multiple runways or close-by alternates with runways into the wind if the wind is a factor. Common sense stuff, so that no one gets hurt and no metal gets dinged.

I am still learning the tailwheel stuff, but there is a lot of satisfaction that I'm getting from watching myself improve. I'm a ways from where I want to be, but I'm having a blast getting there and I'm betting you would too...no matter what you choose!

PM me if you'd like more info on the search process.

Best regards, Good luck, and welcome aboard!

Rob S.
 
Hey Ian. I had the same debate 6 months ago. At the time, I based my decision on finding a well built 8/8A. I ended up getting a RV-8A. Although I still think the RV-8 looks cooler sitting on the ground, I find comfort in landing my wife safely with my 3500 hours of tricycle gear time and not worrying about the dreaded ground loop. This being said, I probably would have still gotten a TW if the right plane was available at the time.
 
Many years ago a burley fella and his two boys inspected my RV4 at a local airshow and displayed interest in getting a ride. The burley one introduced himself as a high country rancher and I could tell by his hand shake he could take down any steer on the ranch. My rear seat allowance was meant for ladies and smaller fellers not exceeding 175lbs so I offered a ride to his boys but it would be at an aerodrome near his house, that being at an elevation of 8000ft. His boys got their ride in short order and the burley one proceeded to build his RV4.

We kept in touch and I suggested he get his private pilot training in a Citabria that an acquaintance of mine taught in and the RV4 was finished not long after the burley one received his PP. Now equipped with some 70 hours or so of Citabria time and hundreds of hours flying long wing radio controlled gliders the day came that the project would need to be flown. The rancher called just as I was about to depart on a trip and would be gone for several days with a request that I test fly his new RV4. I was honored by that request and had seen the fine workmanship in his plane and I was also aware of his newly acquired flying skills. Now, I?m familiar with the counseling that I?ve seen here and other forums concerning the first flight but heck, somebody has to do it and why not a competent builder and pilot.
I suggested he wait for a nice calm, cold day, then without fanfare and spectators collect his thoughts and go fly his prize. For a man, this is the closest to a gestation period and giving birth he?ll ever have.

After returning home we made contact and he told me about his flight. His exact words were ?that airplane flew as if I had been flying it all my life?. This from a newly minted PP with just over 70 hours total time. I have told this story many times over the years to RV builders and they understood.
So don?t let the challenge of a tail dragger skew your thinking, think of it as the salt and pepper that spices your life and makes going to the airport an even more exciting event than simply climbing in and steering to the end of the runway.

Cheers, Hans
 
I really like the better taxiing visibility that a trike gear provides. But my mission profile is quite different, as I'll rarely (if ever) land on gravel or grass.
 
RV7 or 7A

Live N. of you, GCC, Gillette, your winds known, similar here, 15-25 daily. Thereby thinking of selling one of my two EAB's + then get RV, just to handle them, per post comments from various regional areas, comparing GA models to RV's. BTW, Dave, former EAA member, flies from here to Laramie frequently on weekends in his Warrior. :)
 
TW or nose dragger

I really do not see a great deal of difference landing in a cross wind in a TW over a nose wheel. I have about 2000 TW and 3800 nose wheel.

I do feel that you need to be comfortable in the make and model to be safe doing Xwind of any significance.

I have just under 100 hours in my 7 and would think twice about landing in much more than 20 for a Xwind. I'm not yet at the place where I feel as "one" with the plane as I do in the Mooney's that I have 3800 hours flying, but I am/will be getting there.

Do not be afraid of a TW, but it does require you to be a better pilot and it will give you skills you will never have if you only continue flying a nose wheel!

I have personally seen 3 6A/7A airplanes upside down and facing opposite the direction they were landing. I think the flips were mainly a factor of driving the plane on without a full stall nose high technique, coupled with a bouncing PIO until the nose gear either dug in or broke and collapsed. So having the nose gear will not alleviate the consequences of bad technique. Just as the TW requires proper training so will the Nose gear plane.
 
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