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  #461  
Old 06-01-2019, 12:29 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
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Location: Boulder, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcarsey View Post
....Anyone not familiar with [motorgliders], they are basically airplanes with a wing loading of less than .6 lbs/sqft....
Close but not exactly. It's not wing loading based upon area, as the term customarily means, but weight divided by span squared.

For example, at Van's RV-3B gross weight of 1,100 pounds, it would need a wingspan of at least 42.12 feet to be a motorglider.

FAA's actual criteria is 3.0 kg/m^2, or (their conversion) .62 lb/ft^2. It's in AC 21.17-2A, if you're interested.

Dave
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  #462  
Old 06-01-2019, 01:48 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,863
Default speaking of...

Wish I had the reference handy to verify this, but I don't. According to something I read somewhere (doncha love that?), the FAA has that rule for certifying gliders as gliders, but it doesn't apply to experimentals. So...
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  #463  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:29 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
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I think Sonex uses it to get the Xenos motorglider kits licensed as gliders.

Dave
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  #464  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:57 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Location: Pocahontas MS
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They probably did, but I'm pretty sure they didn't need to. Would the old 'primary glider', the 1st thing Paul Poberezny restored, meet the criteria? I suspect not. If you built one from plans today, would the FAA refuse to license it as an exp. homebuilt glider?
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  #465  
Old 06-01-2019, 04:22 PM
rv7charlie rv7charlie is offline
 
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Location: Pocahontas MS
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What I was trying to say, is that this:
FAA's actual criteria is 3.0 kg/m^2, or (their conversion) .62 lb/ft^2. It's in AC 21.17-2A
wouldn't be applied to your homebuilt model 'xyz' glider when you apply for its exp a/w cert as a glider. Which might mean that, for instance, something that looks a lot like an RV-12 (or RV-9), (with a 'friendly' inspector) might conceivably be licensed as a motor glider.

I'll bet that a -9, with just a bit of wing tip tweaking, will out-glide every one of the 'primary gliders' that many learned to fly in back in the 20s & 30s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_glider
Paul P.'s primary glider type, at 15-1 glide ratio:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WACO_Primary_Glider
WW2 troop/cargo glider, at 12-1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_CG-4

Last edited by rv7charlie : 06-01-2019 at 04:24 PM.
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  #466  
Old 06-01-2019, 05:35 PM
David Paule David Paule is offline
 
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Actually, that criteria is applied if you're licensing it as a glider. A motorglider is licensed as a glider, I understand. A friend went through this for his Xenos motorglider. The FAA accepted it as the proper criterion.

Dave
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  #467  
Old 08-28-2019, 06:12 AM
N208ET N208ET is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: St. Helens OR
Posts: 416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv7charlie View Post
There are at least 3 all aluminum 'bushplane' kits I can remember at the moment. The Murphy Super Rebel (now known as a flat engine Moose), the Dream Tundra, and the St Just Cyclone (a Cessna 180 clone).
I didnít state it so my bad, but I was thinking 2 place aircraft. Any 2 place all aluminum bush variants out there?

As stated many times throughout the post, the 2 place bush plane market has a ton of suppliers. With good reason, itís a decent sized market. And those kits require some big money. Obviously the demand is there.
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  #468  
Old 08-28-2019, 10:12 AM
ksauce ksauce is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lititz, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N208ET View Post
I didnít state it so my bad, but I was thinking 2 place aircraft. Any 2 place all aluminum bush variants out there?

As stated many times throughout the post, the 2 place bush plane market has a ton of suppliers. With good reason, itís a decent sized market. And those kits require some big money. Obviously the demand is there.
Yes, the Rans S-21.
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  #469  
Old 09-10-2019, 06:54 AM
eric.the.blonde eric.the.blonde is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Ann Arbor
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My guess is that the RV-15x will be a production -10 built to part 23 performance-based standards.

Lets face it, future growth of Vans Aircraft is not likely to be the result of seducing greater numbers of people into buying kits. I read as much between the lines when they brought the RV-12 in house. Think of the RV-12 as a dress rehearsal for the next big thing.

Van's posted a video on social media showing a rather large CNC punch press (?) type thing being installed earlier this year. Seemed to me to be an awful lot of machine (and a long way from the fabled culture of frugality) for these little kits -- likely has an ulterior purpose.
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  #470  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:16 AM
greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.the.blonde View Post
Van's posted a video on social media showing a rather large CNC punch press (?) type thing being installed earlier this year. Seemed to me to be an awful lot of machine (and a long way from the fabled culture of frugality) for these little kits -- likely has an ulterior purpose.
Actually, that’s our fourth CNC punch press! It replaced an older one, so we have three on the factory floor now. Those punch machines have been bread-and-butter workhorses in our factory for well more than two decades. The newest one is simply an upgrade in capability and fresh equipment. It enables faster production and allows us to do some punching that the older machines could not do.

Oh, and if we ever got to make a production/certified RV-10 (and I’m not saying that’s going to happen!) we’d probably call it something like the “RV-10.” Just like we did with the SLSA RV-12. New model numbers are generally reserved for new models, rather than production variants.

And, our business has been primarily kits for almost 50 years. It’s worked thus far and sales are quite strong. We don’t intend to move away from kits. Of course, we will move with the times and take advantage of the right opportunities as it fits our business model.

We’re excited about all the things we’re working on! If anyone wants to talk shop, find me at the AOPA fly in this week in Tennessee, or at the Petit Jean fly in coming up in Arkansas in October. Always happy to talk about what we’re up to (except for the top-secret stuff of course, hah) and learn about the airplanes people are building/have built!
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Last edited by greghughespdx : 09-10-2019 at 07:20 AM.
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