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Old 07-19-2017, 06:00 AM
Frank Smidler Frank Smidler is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stoughton, WI
Posts: 463
Default Lower speed practice

I did my practice flight this last weekend too. I might add to practice at slower speeds. I flew without flaps at 90, 80 and 70kts, making 180 degree turns at each speed then did with 10 degrees of flaps at each of these speeds and again making 180 degree turns. I prefer the 10 degree flap setting for more stability and getting the nose down. This will prepare you for the very real possibility of getting behind a cub or other slow AC. I am comfortable reducing speed and not S-turning in such a situation, which is not allowed by the NOTAM and still be at 40% over stall speed.
Frank Smidler
N96FS, RV-6
Flying 1/11/09
1085 hr
2WI6 Stoughton, WI
Formally of Lafayette, IN
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:16 AM
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MikeyDale MikeyDale is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Garden City Texas
Posts: 817

Last year was my first fly in trip to Kosh. I got on Google Earth and got familiar with railroad track and Ripon, Fisk, and landmarks along all the possible runway approaches. I watched a lot of youtube videos of different approaches to the different runways. It sure helped me a lot. I have prepared this year the same way. I would also suggest practice slow flight at a safe altitude and slowing it down to even 70kts and watch and see how your oil temp is going to react so it isn't a big distraction when you get there.
Mike Hillger
Garden City, Texas
First Flight
Build Blog
Dues Paid
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Old 07-15-2018, 11:12 AM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
Posts: 3,115

Originally Posted by RV6_flyer View Post
2017 will be the 18th time I have flown my RV-6 into Oshkosh AirVenture in the last 20-years. I have flown the RV that I built over 3,000 hours. As an EAA Tech Counselor and Flight Advisor, I would like to share with others how I practice for an RV arrival at AirVenture.

Like most RV pilots, I typically fly cruise speed, traffic pattern speed, and slow flight. Slow flight may be 50-KIAS but it typically does not last for much over 5-minutes. Following the AirVenture NOTAM, we will be flying 90-KIAS for about 12-minutes.

The Oshkosh AirVenture arrival NOTAM says:

“All non-ADS-B equipped aircraft set transponder to Standby at or before Ripon.
Obtain Arrival ATIS (125.9) no later than 15 miles from Ripon and note arrival runways in use.
Have NOTAM arrival pages mentioned on ATIS available.
Then monitor Fisk Approach (120.7).
Arrive at Ripon at 90 knots and 1,800’.”

Since RVs can operate comfortably at 90-KIAS, we are expected to fly the approach at that speed. Every year, I tell someone that wants to fly their RV at 135 Knots and 2,300’, that if they cannot fly their RV in line 1/2-mile apart at 90-KIAS, they should not fly to Oshkosh AirVenture.

Having flown to Oshkosh AirVenture and used all the different Runway options, I would like to share a practice routine that any new AirVenture pilot or one that has done it multiple times can practice on their own before reaching RIPON.

I took off from my home airport and climbed several thousand feet above the ground and setup for cruise speed. Next I reduced to my economy cruise speed and practiced turns about a point. Economy cruise where I burn the least fuel and can loiter for hours if necessary. IF by some chance you are inbound to RIPON and ATC issues a hold, one can orbit or create a hold till the field opens. IF the hold is going to be an hour or more, I would head for and land at a near by airport.

I am now 15 to 20 miles from my home airport, I setup for a decent and arrival at a point a little over 1,000’ AGL at 90-KIAS. (I was at 2,300 MSL and that puts me between 1,000 and 1,200 AGL depending on where I am on my practice flight route.) If one has a Constant Speed prop, I advise to record the power setting necessary to maintain airspeed and altitude. On my RV-6, 2,100 RPM and 16.5” works well for starting point for 90-KIAS. I will advance and retard throttle as necessary to maintain airspeed and altitude. I now fly along a major highway similar to what the railroad tracks we follow will be like. I do a few 90-degree left and right turns along the route. This is done as one may need to turn left 90-degrees out of line so as to go back and start over or one could be directed to make a right turn to enter BASE for RWY 36. The goal on the route is to maintain a constant altitude, heading, and airspeed. In actual flight to AirVenture, you will also be following another aircraft, maintain spacing, and looking for other aircraft. As you get near the airport, you should have flown close to 10 Nm straight and about a total distance of 18 Nm at 90 KIAS. When you get to the airport, you want to do a precision short soft field approach touching down at a specific location you chose that was not the numbers.

We have now completed a simulated practice arrival but without the controllers, traffic, and pressure of AirVenture.

My goal with the practice arrival procedure was to control airspeed, heading, and altitude without using a large amount of brainpower. I want the 90-KIAS, heading, and altitude to be a reflex action so that I can follow other aircraft maintaining spacing, look for other aircraft, and do frequency changes if necessary.

It may be necessary to practice parts or all of this multiple times till it is mastered.
An old thread just in time for OSH AirVenture 2018.

On my RV, I know to start with a 2,100 RPM and 16.5" MAP for my RIPON FISK KOSH arrival. MP will be adjust as necessary to as high as 18.5" to maintain airspeed and altitude. My airplane has not seen more than 350 CHT on my practice flights. OT never went over 200. Being a tailwheel aircraft, I hand fly the airplane with more back pressure than some people may like. (I leave elevator trim at setting that is hands-off at cruise speed.) I like to do wheel landings where I can release back pressure to keep the wheels on the runway and require very little or no forward stick pressure.

Now living at a different airport, I still practice for my 19th trip to Oshkosh AirVenture. Depart runway 09 with a left 270 (more like 240-250) departure to cruise altitude and speed. Then decent to 1,800 (1,100 AGL) and 90 KIAS along a highway. Looks something like this.

This year, my HAM Radio 2-Meter APRS tracker is operational and one can look at my actual track. Above image is a snapshot of one website but the website will soon be retired but in the mean time, can be used to look at actual data of one of my OSH arrival practice flights. I have done this flight several times and this link will take you to the flight I did this morning. Yes there was another aircraft that I went around for on right base same time I was on left base so there is a circle around the airport.

There are other comments in this thread that others point out things that the new to flying in to AirVenture should be aware of.
Gary A. Sobek
NC25 RV-6
3,300+ hours
Where is N157GS
Building RV-8 S/N: 80012

To most people, the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
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Old 07-15-2018, 10:52 PM
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awmuhs awmuhs is offline
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 134
Default Ditto on following slow airplanes

in 2017 I followed a Zenith 701 (it cruises at 80 kts) that pulled it back to 65kts. I could see planes backing up behind me on the traffic display. One guy passed me and the Zenith by going over the top. Scared the h*ll out of my wife

With the advent of more of these slower airplanes maybe a revision of the Oshkosh VFR approach is needed.
Alan Muhs
Tucson, Arizona
Dues overpaid December 17, 2018
RV12 Southern Arizona Teen Aviation: wings, empennage & tail cone completed. Fuselage 90% complete, engine hung, waiting for avionics
RV10 flying since July 2014- 550 hrs as of Dec 2018
RV6A purchased and flying
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:42 AM
zmatt zmatt is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: OK
Posts: 40

Originally Posted by awmuhs View Post
With the advent of more of these slower airplanes maybe a revision of the Oshkosh VFR approach is needed.
I think the NOTAM advises for the slow flying crowd to show up at 7am, also I believe that it allows passing of slower aircraft if it is safe.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:13 AM
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awmuhs awmuhs is offline
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Tucson, Az
Posts: 134
Default slow arrivals

I did find the sentence about slow aircraft arriving between 7 and 7:30AM. I understand the reasoning that generally early means light traffic. What I am trying to understand is how an 80kt airplane can get there early.

I did read where it says explicitly not to pass other aircraft unless advised by ATC. Is there something else I missed?
Alan Muhs
Tucson, Arizona
Dues overpaid December 17, 2018
RV12 Southern Arizona Teen Aviation: wings, empennage & tail cone completed. Fuselage 90% complete, engine hung, waiting for avionics
RV10 flying since July 2014- 550 hrs as of Dec 2018
RV6A purchased and flying
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:20 AM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 880

There’s more to it than just slow flight. Some years ago I wrote an article for Kitplanes on other skills you should be good at. If Paul can’t find it, maybe he’ll let me repost it myself.
RV-8 (steam gauges), RV-9A at KSAV (Savannah, GA; dual experimental touch screens with autopilot, IFR GPS)
Previously RV-4, RV-8A, AirCam, Cessna 175
ATP CFII PhD, so I have no excuses when I screw up
2019 dues slightly overpaid
Retired - "They used to pay me to be good, now I'm good for nothing."
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:35 AM
odens_14 odens_14 is online now
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 215

Another good thing to practice is changing your landing point. i.e. you're cleared to land on the numbers then told to keep it flying down the runway to another point. This happened to me on short final last year.
Chris Odens
Alexandria, MN
RV-7 N914N
FLYING!!! as of 7/22/10
Build Log
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:15 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,938

My co-pilot and I practiced for OSH last Thursday - neither of us have ever flown in. Even though we will be arriving with a mass arrival Sunday morning we trained as though were were just joining the crowd over Ripon. We also practiced spot landing, delayed landings, go-arounds, and did multiple abbreviated patterns at 500' as well as 500' departures. We are fortunate in that we have a handy set of train tracks nearby so we even got some decent visual fidelity.

Why am I writing this? Not to pile on, but rather to thank those who have gone before who recommended doing this training for the OSH arrival, and to say how much of a confidence-booster it is. At the end of the flight both my co-pilot and I felt ready to handle the airplane going into OSH - that's a very valuable level of confidence to have in both the airplane and the flight crew. Well worth the two hours of gas burned.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:29 AM
painless painless is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peshtigo, Wisconsin
Posts: 736

Originally Posted by awmuhs View Post

With the advent of more of these slower airplanes maybe a revision of the Oshkosh VFR approach is needed.
What revisions are you suggesting?
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P
Peshtigo, WI

Last edited by painless : 07-16-2018 at 11:31 AM.
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