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Navworx AMOCS

Thx Bob - I did a bit more research and now see there may also be a few more issues with the GRT unit. Appears as though it does not output a timing signal. Looks like all the other approved GPS sources do that.

Thanks again for the info...I will concentrate my efforts elsewhere. Sure wish I could access my 430W wiring bundle easier!



To get an AMOC approved, you have to substantiate to the FAA that the GPS meets all their requirements. Doing this from scratch is a rather onerous task.

The reason we were able to turn the AMOCs around quickly was that the Garmin GPSs were already approved position sources for other ADSB vendors. We didn't have to prove they met the requirements, since they were previously approved by others. All we had to do was document how they were going to be interfaced with the ADS600-B.

In other words, if you don't see the GPS on this list (https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/equipment/), you'll have a whole lot of data you'll have to document and get reviewed by the FAA.

While the Navworx manual may not have listed all the Garmin GPS by specific model number, it does have the interface requirements, which are identical for all of them. You mentioned the GTN series, which was my AMOC. You have two interface options (ARINC and RS-232) and the protocol is ADSB+. Per the second round of AMOCs, any of the GTN family will meet these requirements.
 
Broken link help

John,
The link appears to be broken...at least my iPad can't open anymore. I would like to see your documents again as I'm writing my logbook entry. Yours was pretty good.
Thanks, Eric

Thanks Ralph and Bob. We really appreciate your work.

I am connecting a 430W to a -013.

I called my FSDO this morning and all they need is a letter notifying them of what I am going to do, and a log book entry saying what I did. Very easy. The FSDO really emphasized that I didn't need their approval, only that they be notified. The FSDO also confirmed that there was no need to send anything to OKC (a 337 or whatever). I sent the letter off this morning. Here's a link to the letter sent to the FSDO, the envelope, and my logbook entry.
 
Requirements to connect a Garmin 430W to NavWorx ADS600-B 200-0012

My NavWorx install manual dated 2013-12-22 (upper left corner of the title page) doesn't document how to connect a Garmin 430W to an ADS600-B 200-0012 for the purposes of a position source.

So far, I know that UAT Console 4.1.0 is required. I've got that installed and running.

Is ARINC-429 required or can I just use the 'GPS RS-232 Out 3' and 'Time Mark Out' signals from the 430W? If RS-232, I presume that within the UAT Console software I'll be able to specify the BAUD rate. If ARINC-429 is required, then I think I'm SOL because I think I ordered my NavWorx unit without ARNIC.

Is there a particular version of firmware that I should be running on the 430W? I vaguely recall something a number of years ago about the this.

In summary, can somebody specify the hardware and software requirements to get this done or point me to a resource that has them clearly spelled out. I'd like to get this sorted out before I go diving in only to discover that it's not possible.

Thank you,
 
My NavWorx install manual dated 2013-12-22 (upper left corner of the title page) doesn't document how to connect a Garmin 430W to an ADS600-B 200-0012 for the purposes of a position source.

So far, I know that UAT Console 4.1.0 is required. I've got that installed and running.

Is ARINC-429 required or can I just use the 'GPS RS-232 Out 3' and 'Time Mark Out' signals from the 430W? If RS-232, I presume that within the UAT Console software I'll be able to specify the BAUD rate. If ARINC-429 is required, then I think I'm SOL because I think I ordered my NavWorx unit without ARNIC.

Is there a particular version of firmware that I should be running on the 430W? I vaguely recall something a number of years ago about the this.

In summary, can somebody specify the hardware and software requirements to get this done or point me to a resource that has them clearly spelled out. I'd like to get this sorted out before I go diving in only to discover that it's not possible.

Thank you,

You need TSO ADS600-B Installation Manual 240-0008-00-36 for the proper diagrams. If you drop me an email (link in my signature) and not a PM, I can send you a copy.

The three AMOCS support both ARINC and RS-232 connections. The GPS must be upgraded to a version of software that supports the ADSB+ protocol. There was a previous version that was called ADSB, this won't work. The plus is the critical indicator.

The RS-232 connection is just a straight serial connection, then set the GPS to use ADSB+ and you should be good to go.

bob
 
My NavWorx install manual dated 2013-12-22 (upper left corner of the title page) doesn't document how to connect a Garmin 430W to an ADS600-B 200-0012 for the purposes of a position source.

So far, I know that UAT Console 4.1.0 is required. I've got that installed and running.

Is ARINC-429 required or can I just use the 'GPS RS-232 Out 3' and 'Time Mark Out' signals from the 430W? If RS-232, I presume that within the UAT Console software I'll be able to specify the BAUD rate. If ARINC-429 is required, then I think I'm SOL because I think I ordered my NavWorx unit without ARNIC.

Is there a particular version of firmware that I should be running on the 430W? I vaguely recall something a number of years ago about the this.

In summary, can somebody specify the hardware and software requirements to get this done or point me to a resource that has them clearly spelled out. I'd like to get this sorted out before I go diving in only to discover that it's not possible.

Thank you,

You need TSO ADS600-B Installation Manual 240-0008-00-36 for the proper diagrams. If you drop me an email (link in my signature) and not a PM, I can send you a copy.

The three AMOCS support both ARINC and RS-232 connections. The GPS must be upgraded to a version of software that supports the ADSB+ protocol. There was a previous version that was called ADSB, this won't work. The plus is the critical indicator.

The RS-232 connection is just a straight serial connection, then set the GPS to use ADSB+ and you should be good to go.

bob
 
Can the Avidyne 440/540 be used for a position source? These units are a plug and play replacement for the 430.
 
Can the Avidyne 440/540 be used for a position source? These units are a plug and play replacement for the 430.

For any non-Garmin GPS, you'll need the following:

  1. Is the device listed on the FAA list? If not, you'll have to prove to the FAA that it's compliant, which would be very onerous.
  2. Validate that is supports the ADSB+ protocol. I don't know if that's unique to Garmin or is available from other vendors. The Navworx ADS600-B only supports ADSB+.
  3. Submit a request for an AMOC for that particular GPS to function as an external GPS position source to the Navworx ADS600-B.

The 440/540 is on the list. A quick google search looks like ADSB+ is supported, but I can't state definitely since I don't have any experience with the Avidyne products. The AMOC is easy. I can assist with that once you have everything working.
 
EXP v/s ?doghouse gps module?

The EXP has no input for an external position source. The only real option for the -EXP is there add-on box.

Since NavWorx was intent on adding a gps module via a “doghouse” I would assume they must have figured out how to input that gps signal into the EXP.
In light of that it seems that a gps signal from an approved source could be fed to the EXP if the engeneering/wiring data was available and an AMOC submitted & approved thru the FAA.
Thoughts from Bob & Jesse on that possibility??
Or—is it because the 600-B was “certified” and the EXP was not??
 
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I would bet that the doghouse implementation would require a firmware update to assign one of the DSUB pins as a serial input. Unless we can modify the firmware, it may be easier to open the unit and intercept the serial line from the onboard GPS and inject an approved source signal. I doubt that would require a programming modification, but I really don?t know.
 
Since NavWorx was intent on adding a gps module via a ?doghouse? I would assume they must have figured out how to input that gps signal into the EXP.
In light of that it seems that a gps signal from an approved source could be fed to the EXP if the engeneering/wiring data was available and an AMOC submitted & approved thru the FAA.
Thoughts from Bob & Jesse on that possibility??
Or?is it because the 600-B was ?certified? and the EXP was not??

We were able to process the AMOC for the ADS600-B because many revisions ago, Bill added support for an external GPS. So the functionality was already built in and enabled.

All the AMOC is really is the FAA's formal process indicating that you're using an approved GPS instead of the internal one. Once the steps in the AMOC are compiled with, the AD is no longer applicable to that aircraft.

To be honest, I'm totally ignorant of the EXP model. I've never seen one. Rumor has it that several of the new models were shipped before Bill shuttered the business. Rumor also has it that the new model has similar capabilities as the ADS600-B in that an alternative external GPS is supported. I'm sure it's a combination of hardware and software modifications that would probably be next to impossible for any of us to accomplish without assistance from Bill.
 
Thanks

You need TSO ADS600-B Installation Manual 240-0008-00-36 for the proper diagrams. If you drop me an email (link in my signature) and not a PM, I can send you a copy.

The three AMOCS support both ARINC and RS-232 connections. The GPS must be upgraded to a version of software that supports the ADSB+ protocol. There was a previous version that was called ADSB, this won't work. The plus is the critical indicator.

The RS-232 connection is just a straight serial connection, then set the GPS to use ADSB+ and you should be good to go.

bob

Thank you Bob.
 
I reached out to GRT about the possibility of connecting their safe fly gps to the EXP box. There response was "it is not possible" :(
 
Exp antenna

I bought Navworx exp version when it first came out and have an external GPS antenna connected. How does that differ fron the internal GPS if there is any difference.
 
I bought Navworx exp version when it first came out and have an external GPS antenna connected. How does that differ fron the internal GPS if there is any difference.

The external antenna is just that- an antenna. The actual GPS is a chipset inside the EXP. As an analogy, think television plus antenna (dates me, probably not too many TVs connected to an antenna anymore).
 
Still a few TV antennas out here.......

The external antenna is just that- an antenna. The actual GPS is a chipset inside the EXP. As an analogy, think television plus antenna (dates me, probably not too many TVs connected to an antenna anymore).

There are still a few of us that refuse to pay for TV and then have to watch commercials to. If I pay for a TV service, I shouldn't have to watch commercials. That's double charging as far as I'm concerned.

I've NEVER had cable, satellite, or any other form of subscribed TV.
 
Still a little confused

So if I have a Garmin 430w, can I use that for ADS-B out? How would you hook that up?
 
So if I have a Garmin 430w, can I use that for ADS-B out? How would you hook that up?

Have you read the Navworx manual?

Specifically pages A.5 (page 71) and A.23 (page 90) in the 240-0008-00-39 manual, which is the most current manual?

Have you read the AMOC that is posted on AOPA?

Folks, I'm getting dozens of emails daily on the AMOCs. I don't mind answering questions, but please do your homework first. I would also recommend reading the several Navworx threads on VAF. Most of the answers are there to the majority of questions that I'm receiving.
 
Re: Requirements to connect a Garmin 430W to NavWorx ADS600-B 200-0012

Hi Bob,

Read through the updated NavWorx manual that you sent me and page 90 answered all my questions. Figured it'd be useful to note them here for others:

- UAT Console 4.1.0

- I'll need a firrmware update of the 430W to 5.x so that I can configure my chosen serial port to output "ADSB OUT+".

- There are several RS-232 ports that I can chose from on the 430W (pins 41, 54, 56, or 58 of the P4001 connector).

- A length of 22AWG multi-conductor shielded wire (2 or 3 wire).

- A pig-tale for tying the shield to ground.

- Two pins that plug into the P4001 connector of the 430W. I do not believe these are the generic DSUB pins. I'm told by the local avionics shop that the Garmin 400/500 series are particularly susceptible to the bending of the pins upon insertion of the unit so be very careful.

- Two pins that plug into the NavWorx connector. I do believe these are the generic DSUB pins.

- From the UAT Console, select 'Compliant ADS-B Out+ GNS 400W/500W GTN 650/750 IFD 440/540'.

- Disconnect the GPS antenna from the NavWorx unit.

And, of course, follow the guidance in the AMOC and your local FSDO.

Thank you again, Bob.
 
"Two pins that plug into the P4001 connector of the 430W. I do not believe these are the generic DSUB pins."

Your belief is correct - they are high density pins (from my memory). If you can't get any, I may have a couple spares lying around...as well as the pig-tail ground at the 430W!
 
Manual

I have an Navworx exp manual which only has 45 pages, so I am thinking my unit is not certified to be able to connect the 430 for ADS-B out. Would my FSDO be able to answer that question?
 
I have an Navworx exp manual which only has 45 pages, so I am thinking my unit is not certified to be able to connect the 430 for ADS-B out. Would my FSDO be able to answer that question?

No, Kyle at the Fort Worth ACO may know something about the unit, but they are prohibited from sharing any information that Bill has shared with them. That information is treated as a trade secret and can only be publicly released by Bill.

At this point in time, I know of no method to connect an external GPS to the original EXP units. I've been told that the upgraded EXP units do have that ability, but it appears that only a handful were shipped before Navworx was shuttered.

Unfortunately, it appears the owners of the original EXP boxes are SOL.
 
Hi Bob,

Read through the updated NavWorx manual that you sent me and page 90 answered all my questions. Figured it'd be useful to note them here for others:

-- Two pins that plug into the P4001 connector of the 430W. I do not believe these are the generic DSUB pins. I'm told by the local avionics shop that the Garmin 400/500 series are particularly susceptible to the bending of the pins upon insertion of the unit so be very careful.


Thank you again, Bob.

As Ralph stated, they are high density pins. A word of caution, if you have large hands like mine, be careful when you take that connector apart to insert the new pins. I usually break one of the high density connections every time I attempt to update one. It's a combination of large hands, being upside down under the panel, and getting my bifocals adjusted to see the darn things.

The easiest place to get pins, etc is SteinAir. You'll also need a different crimper for those as well. Stein sells an inexpensive one, but I'm partial to the Daniel's crimper. But that may be a little pricey for just a couple of pins. There are plenty of used ones on eBay, but sometimes finding the right positioner can be tough.
 
430W Pins

Thanks guys! A few extras were included with my wiring harness so I should be in good shape .... now I just need to find them. ;)
 
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