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RV-12 general questions

M

Marius

I'm New Here
Greetings,
I'm trying to decide what airplane to build, between RV-9 and RV-12. I am a 1-year old private pilot, approx. 130 hrs total time, currently working on my instrument rating (mostly for tax purposes and educational value, not really planning to do IFR flying afterwards). I am an aeronautical engineer but I've never driven a single rivet in an aircraft structure before, my specialty is GNC (guidance, navigation and control).

I went to Van's and got a demo flight in the RV-9A, I'm planning to go back in a few weeks for another demo flight in the RV-12. For now, I have a couple of questions for the RV-12 builders/pilots, in no particular order:

1. I understand the plane can be certified either as E-LSA or as EAB. With EAB you get the freedom to pick your avionics and design the panel, which to me is a plus. Is there any advantage in certifying the plane as E-LSA instead (other than the ease of building using the standard equipment provided in the kits) ?

2. The Rotax engine runs on mogas, as I understand it. I'm not sure how easy it is to find this type of fuel at airports, the FBO at my home airport certainly doesn't provide mogas. I guess I can probably get by at home, hauling fuel from Costco in canisters, but how do you get fuel for your airplane when you're away on a cross-country trip ?

3. Has anyone considered to or installed in their experimental RV-12 the fuel-injected Rotax engine (912iS I believe it's called) ?

4. If you certify your RV-12 as E-LSA, you certainly have to use the standard equipment specified by Van's. Does this apply to everything on the plane, where exactly is the line drawn ? Particularly, on the avionics, can you add more stuff such as another EFIS on the copilot side, a second nav/com radio, in addition to the standard equipment ?

5. Somewhat related to previous question, does the standard audio panel support a music player or XM radio input ? If not, can it legally be swapped for a fancier audio panel that has such functions ?

Thanks,
Marius
 
LOL PCHunt, good one. A few more questions:

6. Does the folding bike that Vans sells fit in the baggage compartment next to the fuel tank ?

7. I understand the flaps are not very effective in slowing the aircraft down on approach. How well can the aircraft be slipped using the rudder for bleeding off the excess energy ?

Thanks,
Marius
 
Marius,

Give me a call. I can explain these issues with you much easier than typing. Everything you have asked is pretty typical of what I address at every fly in I attend with our blue RV-12.

I can be reached at 240-427-8847.
 
Marius said:
Greetings,


1. I understand the plane can be certified either as E-LSA or as EAB. With EAB you get the freedom to pick your avionics and design the panel, which to me is a plus. Is there any advantage in certifying the plane as E-LSA instead (other than the ease of building using the standard equipment provided in the kits) ?
Primary advantage here for E-LSA is in resale. The "next" owner can qualify for the repairman certificate allowing him/her to perform the annual condition inspection. Also, E-LSA gets you a 5 hr. phase I test period. E-AB will be 40 hrs.

2. The Rotax engine runs on mogas, as I understand it. I'm not sure how easy it is to find this type of fuel at airports, the FBO at my home airport certainly doesn't provide mogas. I guess I can probably get by at home, hauling fuel from Costco in canisters, but how do you get fuel for your airplane when you're away on a cross-country trip ?
The Rotax will run fine on 100LL. It doesn't like the lead and you will need to change oil twice as often.

3. Has anyone considered to or installed in their experimental RV-12 the fuel-injected Rotax engine (912iS I believe it's called) ?

4. If you certify your RV-12 as E-LSA, you certainly have to use the standard equipment specified by Van's. Does this apply to everything on the plane, where exactly is the line drawn ? Particularly, on the avionics, can you add more stuff such as another EFIS on the copilot side, a second nav/com radio, in addition to the standard equipment ?
Only option is paint. Any other changes must be approved by Vans in writing. Immediately after certification, you may make any changes you wish.

5. Somewhat related to previous question, does the standard audio panel support a music player or XM radio input ? If not, can it legally be swapped for a fancier audio panel that has such functions ?

Thanks,
Marius
Click to expand...

See above entries.
 
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I would choose the RV-9A for cross country trips. It will go a little faster, carry a little more baggage, and being a little heavier, it will not get tossed around quite as much. And it can land and takeoff in a little less distance.
The same type of fuel can be used in either plane (if the RV-9 fuel system is alcohol compatible). But the RV-9 will use more fuel (if flown faster). The total cost to build either plane will be about the same.
The RV-12 can be flown without a medical. But that might not matter to a pilot as young as you are. LOL Hopefully by the time you finish your RV-9, the rules will have changed to allow it to be flown without a medical too.
Joe Gores
 
There are some Van's options. They are:
Exterior nav-strobe-landing lights or not.
Full interior kit or basic interior.
Autopilot or not. (The autopilot function is software contained in the Dynon unit. To function, it needs two servos and some linkages that Van's sells as an optional subkit.)
Wheel pants or not.
To see mods people have made, look at the sticky thread at the top of the main page of this forum. There are not very many. Adding a second EFIS would not be difficult at all after certification. There are issues with power budget but there are EAB dual-Skyview versions flying without a problem and the CTLS has an even more power-hungry setup that uses the standard Rotax power (no aux power on it.)
 
RV-12

I am also in the decision phase of building. Of all the choices I am considering I am leaning towards the RV-12 as it seems to be a good choice for an inexperienced first time builder. I would like build as an E-AB as I would like design my own panel and also consider the UL power option, but may just stick to the plans for ease of construction. I am still a year or 2 from starting so am very open to all of the opinions out there. Also waiting to see what the RV-14 is?.
 
Joe,

Perryville, Md. I have our blue RV-12 at St. Mary's Airport, right next to Pax River NAS. You gotta come down and let me give you a demo in the 12. Give me a call at 240-427-8847 or email me at [email protected] right after Oshkosh.
 
Marius said:
3. Has anyone considered to or installed in their experimental RV-12 the fuel-injected Rotax engine (912iS I believe it's called) ?
Click to expand...

There was a thread earlier this year on this topic (the day the engine was announced: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=83620&highlight=rotax+912iS), and Vans posted on the topic on their FB page (http://www.facebook.com/notes/vans-aircraft-inc/rotax-912is/381492068527838). The bottom line was that it would take some significant redesign work on the cowling to make the new engine fit, and part of Vans concern was the increased weight of the engine (~13 lbs) and its impact on the aircraft in terms of weight and c.g.
 
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Marius,

I was in the same place you are until I decided in Feb to go with the -9a. I do have concerns with the medical issues and that almost moved me to the 12. In the end, the power and ceiling were what convinced me to go with the 9. I live in Colorado and a quick trip to Denver calls for 14,500'. The closest airport is 6100' and the next is just under 8000'.

Considering building, I believe the 12 is easier and quicker to build. The pulled rivets are faster and my understanding is the holes are drilled and reamed already. After looking at the instructions and plans, it appears to be easier to follow than those on the 9.

Bottom line in my opinion is both are very nice planes and pretty close to the same price. If getting a medical is an issue, the 12 is the way to go. Changes in the medical requirements may be coming so maybe that will change. The 12 has the possibility of saving you money if you want to remove the wings and store on a trailer. I don't think many do that, but it could save quite a bit each month. The 9 is quite a bit faster and can be flown slower to save fuel to probably close to the same as the 12.

For me it came down to mission - I want a cross country plane that is reasonably quick. I can fly slow or fast and climb to get over the mountains around here. Good luck and take a flight in both. Either will be a winner.
 
I'm an Aero Too, Marius

And I had zero metal-working experience before starting my RV-12. Doesn't make any difference-- nothing in your college degree applies much here unless your specialty was structures, and then you can't change anything anyway. I watched another pilot spend 6 years on his Quick-Build -7A kit but with a part-time helper I built 3WM in 14 months /1000 hours. Not having to drill/dimple/de-burr too many of the river holes really speeds up construction as does the "plug-n-Play avionics. Once you have the airworthiness certificate you can do anything that doesn't take the airplane out of LSA specs; I added "steam" altimeter, airspeed and ball to the panel, end covers for the stab, etc.

You'll find the -12 flies a lot different from anything you've trained in-- transition training is HIGHLY recommended.

Wayne 120241/143WM
 
This "game changer" thread is interesting reading for those considering which plane to build. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=68034
Note that there are more than 550 RV-12 kits in construction and in April 2012 mine was the 156th flying (the first E-LSA Skyview mod version to fly). There has been a significant backlog of stalled builders "waiting for Skyview" but that was resolved in 1Q12 and the dam is bursting! New -12s appear to be finishing up about one a week based on posts here - maybe more.
Bill H. N412BR "Sweetie"
 
Thank you very much everyone for the useful information. One remaining question for RV-12 pilots: how do you deal with the limited availability of mogas on a cross-country ? Do you fuel your plane with avgas exclusively, do you mix avgas and mogas depending on what's available, or do you limit your fuel stops to airports where mogas is available ?

Thanks again,
Marius
 
Mix it baby!

Get a fuel set up for your hanger. Mix 50/50 when away from home base.
photo1-1-1.jpg

Flying 800 nm to OSH using no 100ll.
See this web link for a listing of mogas airports.
http://www.flyunleaded.com/mapusairports.html
 
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Pump for hangar

I use a Flow-Fast 15-gallon tank with a hand-crank pump and have 3 5-rallon cans for refilling the pump. If I'm going to re-fuel off airport (very rare since I just fly for fun) I carry a can of Decalin fuel additive-- safer in the airplane than TCP.

Wayne 120241/143WM
 
Music in the 12

There is an mp3 line-in adapter jack between the seats that comes with the standard avionics package.
 
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