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RV-14 Construction Manual Error

mcattell

Well Known Member
I believe I just came across an error in the manual. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this yet. On page 12-06, Figure 2 it shows connecting the torque tube support bracket to rib W-1010-R. It also shows a flap hinge bracket attaching to that same rib. The rib does have a drill pattern that matches the flap hinge bracket, but on all other drawings there doesn't seem to be any flap hinge brackets attached to that rib. I'm guessing that's an error in the drawing and this rib should not have the flap hinge bracket. Also the wing kit only came with two flap hinge brackets per wing which show attached to ribs W-1011-L & R.

I've sent an email to Van's to confirm if this in fact an error in the manual and will post what I find out.

By the way, the wing kit isn't quite as easy as expected. The wing ribs are the same ones that are used in the RV-10, so they are not drilled to full size. At least the skin holes are drilled full size so still no match drilling required. The manual just indicates to drill all the wing ribs prior to assembly.
 
I see on the RV-10 that the flap hinge , W-1025A , is on rib W-1010 and that is probably where Van's went wrong.
 
Page 12-6

This one?:confused: Good eye Mark!
0262206aaecfb2a0c615e550e1e26fe8.jpg
 
Yep, that's it. Although it is odd that the W-1025 ribs need to have all the flap bracket holes drilled and the W-1010 rib has all those holes but they don't get used. Oh well, less weight.
 
N214VA, the RV-14 prototype, has three flap hinges (like the RV-10) instead of the two used in the final wing design.

Instead of the inboard hinge bracket being located on the root rib like the RV-10, I believe it goes on the next rib outboard. You can use the main wing skins as a guide to confirm the proper location of both the brackets.
 
...... and you are going to have a lot of fun getting the aileron torque tube bracket in place on the root rib if they are RV-10 parts!
 
Another small one that easy to pick out. Page 14-03, rivet call out, figure 2 has 426AD3-3.5 on the wing box J stiffners every where but in the wing walk area. There they call out for 426AD3-4s but the wing walk doublers do not pass under the j stiffners and the rivets should be 426AD3-3.5 all the way along the j stiffner from the inboard side of the W-00002 wing skin to the lap seam but not including the lap rivets.
 
W-1007C

I also noticed on that same page that it shows to machine countersink the third from the top row of holes on W-1007C. But then it shows using AN426AD4-8 rivets on the 4th row. So obviously that row needs to be countersunk. The question is what to do with the third row?
 
More Oops!

Ok several things are wrong on this page. I think they have all been stated previously except for one.
First, in the green highlighted area you need to countersink those hole for the flush rivets also shown in the green, this
countersink step was left out. Two, the holes in the blue highlighted area should actually be countersinked deeper
because there will be dimpled skin riveted there per page 18-2. The dimpled skin will be the flap gap fairing.
Three, I'm not sure how big a deal this will be, but when I read Step 6 it seemed important. See the purple arrow.
A standard 6N bolt is actually a couple of hundreds smaller than a perfect 3/8 inch hole. I asked Vans tech support
if they were going to use a close tolerance bolt and they said no it was going to be a standard 6N bolt. So you other
builders might want to use an under size reamer. See what I'm talking about here at Avery tools,
http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15359
That's it for now.;)

image_zpsd49b5716.jpg
 
Ok several things are wrong on this page. I think they have all been stated previously except for one.
First, in the green highlighted area you need to countersink those hole for the flush rivets also shown in the green, this
countersink step was left out. Two, the holes in the blue highlighted area should actually be countersinked deeper
because there will be dimpled skin riveted there per page 18-2. The dimpled skin will be the flap gap fairing.
Three, I'm not sure how big a deal this will be, but when I read Step 6 it seemed important. See the purple arrow.
A standard 6N bolt is actually a couple of hundreds smaller than a perfect 3/8 inch hole. I asked Vans tech support
if they were going to use a close tolerance bolt and they said no it was going to be a standard 6N bolt. So you other
builders might want to use an under size reamer. See what I'm talking about here at Avery tools,
http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15359
That's it for now.;)

Actually, the green highlight is not meant to be counter sunk. The rivets are incorrectly called out as AN426 (though it is not a problem if they get countersunk, just extra un=needed work). Only the row that has the balloon around it should be countersunk.

A bunch of plans revisions will be released soon correcting all of the issues noted in this thread.
 
Vans Tech Support!

Actually, the green highlight is not meant to be counter sunk. The rivets are incorrectly called out as AN426 (though it is not a problem if they get countersunk, just extra un=needed work). Only the row that has the balloon around it should be countersunk.
Scott, Please let Sterling know in Tech Support about this correction because when I talked to him Friday morning he was unaware of this change.
Thanks for the update!:)
PS What size rivet goes in those holes?
 
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3/8 hole

So "hypothetically" ... What would the implications be if I used a standard 3/8 inch reamer on one wing already? Should I go ahead and do the other wing with it or am I going to have to replace those parts?

Should I just leave it and use a close tolerance bolt?
 
Actually, the green highlight is not meant to be counter sunk. The rivets are incorrectly called out as AN426 (though it is not a problem if they get countersunk, just extra un=needed work). Only the row that has the balloon around it should be countersunk.

Scott, Please let Sterling know in Tech Support about this correction because when I talked to him Friday morning he was unaware of this change.
Thanks for the update!:)
PS What size rivet goes in those holes?

Retract that last statement....
I think I made a mistake, and that row (highlighted green) does also need to be flush rivets (nose of flap contacts that area when fully retracted).

I will double check on Monday and post a verification here.
 
So "hypothetically" ... What would the implications be if I used a standard 3/8 inch reamer on one wing already? Should I go ahead and do the other wing with it or am I going to have to replace those parts?

Should I just leave it and use a close tolerance bolt?

A change in the recommended reamer size is not a planned revision.

As long as a drill press (with an accurately leveled table) is used, a 3/8 reamer is fine.
As always, you are the builder so you have the final authority in choosing what you think is right.
 
Retract that last statement....
I think I made a mistake, and that row (highlighted green) does also need to be flush rivets (nose of flap contacts that area when fully retracted).

Correction of my original post.
The bottom row of rivets on the W-1007C are specified to be flush AN426's to assure no rivet interference with L.E. of the flap when it is fully retracted.
 
Wing walk doubler!

Ran into a little clich today while prepping the inboard wing skin and doublers.
As you can see in the picture the rear wing walk doubler W1027B has the holes pointed out in the wrong place. I'm pretty sure this is the same part that is used on the RV10 which has 3 flap hinge points instead of 2 like the RV14 (correct me if I'm wrong). So I think that's the problem, we have the RV10 part that has not been pre drilled yet to fit the RV14. If any of you other guys have the same problem sound off here so we will know its not just us. The inboard wing skin W00002 has the holes in the correct place as you can see just above the empty drawn circle in the picture. We called Vans to let them know about the discrepancy. The fix is the match drill the holes through the upper skin first then match drill through the W1025BL flap hinge bracket.
image_zps3f3a00fd.jpg


Missing hole location.;)

image_zps2210ce5c.jpg
 
John,

Yep, I scracthed my head on that one also. I match drilled the new holes in doublers and ignored the holes that would have been used if there was another flap bracket on the end rib. We'll just call them lightening holes like all the holes in the end rib. I put a little note on construction log last week regarding that but forgot to mention it here.
 
Not really an error, just a bit confusing (to me at least) . Page 19-02 , step 6, has you "match drill # 40 the remaining hinge brackets using the drilled hinge bracket as a guide ", is not entirely correct. What Van's means is to match drill the remaining FL-1007-L , but not the (other) FL-1007-R hinge brackets. I was looking ahead and on page 19-03 in bold print it says not to drill the FL-1007-R at this time, otherwise I thought they were to be drilled in step 6.
I had to jump ahead to the flaps waiting for my shipment from Van's for the tanks.
Also on page 19-02 , step 14 refers to P/N VL-1004-L & R ribs, I do believe they mean P/N FL-1004-L & R ?
Lastly not an error but a question. Page 19-03 , Figure 4 shows the hinge pair rib subassembly. I'm not seeing spacers as in the RV-10's Flaps , between the FL-1007 L and R subassemblies. Am I seeing this correctly? I do see quite a few changes between the RV-10 and RV-14 flaps.
Thanks Ron
 
For those of you that use the metric system measuring (not me) , page 19-05 step one has you cut a piece of VA-140 11" (157mm). 11" equals 279mm so if you cut your piece at 157mm, you'll be short.
I would say that we got an extra VA-140 as I have six and only need four and another piece 22" long leaving an extra length. So if you do cut the 157mm , you will still have enough to make another one.
 
Lastly not an error but a question. Page 19-03 , Figure 4 shows the hinge pair rib subassembly. I'm not seeing spacers as in the RV-10's Flaps , between the FL-1007 L and R subassemblies. Am I seeing this correctly?

Yes, you are.
No spacer used on the RV-14 flap.
 
2/8/13 Plan Revision

This is kindof a nit but page 13-03 in the plan revision looks like it missed getting the title block updated. I believe it should read "Revision 1"

1693lgm.png


Plus, there's been like 3 days without an RV-14 post so I had to post something...
 
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Section 16! Revision 1

Riddle me this Vans Men! I sometimes feel like a detective on the hunt for 2+2=4 logic. So lets begin. The current revision doesn't say anything about sect 16.
Page 16-4, Step 3, the highlighted (Will from this point forward be refered to HL) in yellow Part #T1005B should be Part #T1005C. Note the nut plates HL in blue, at this point in the plans it doesn't say weather we should dimple or CS (Machine Countersink) these holes. There are 5 holes. However on page 16-8 under Step 4 it says,"CS the 5 screw holes in the T00006L......... Deductive Reasoning (will be DR from this point forward) 101:confused:, I guess that means these holes.
image_zps1cc633e9.jpg

Page 16-5 Figure 1, Note the rivets HL in green. It says Do Not Dimple. Move forward to page 16-8 Step 4 see it below.
image_zps00f844b4.jpg

We apply DR:confused: it would seem we should CS these holes after attaching the skin via proseal but this one is still a bit confusing. Maybe some one could clarify this for me, perhaps a RV10 builder?
Page 16-5 below note the 2 red arrows. What rivets go there and do we dimple or CS?:confused:
image_zps0c3e51fe.jpg

Thanks for any help!
 
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I don't think it's a rivet, it should be a screw that will hold down the wing root fairing. I want to get out working on my wings so I have not researched this but I think it will be countersunk later.
 
Anyone start wiring yet? The hole at the wingtips for the five pin connector seems too long. The connector just falls out. I'll have to make a plate with the correct size hole and rivet it to the connector mount bracket.
 
The current revision doesn't say anything about sect 16.

Understandable, since I don't think anyone up to this point has reported any errors or difficulty understanding anything in section 16

Page 16-4, Step 3, the highlighted (Will from this point forward be refered to HL) in yellow Part #T1005B should be Part #T1005C. Note the nut plates HL in blue, at this point in the plans it doesn't say weather we should dimple or CS (Machine Countersink) these holes. There are 5 holes.

Because it mentions it on page 16-8 under Step 4.

However on page 16-8 under Step 4 it says,"CS the 5 screw holes in the T00006L......... Deductive Reasoning (will be DR from this point forward) 101:confused:, I guess that means these holes.

No deductive reasoning needed here... It says five screw holes. The only other screw holes on the T-00006-L have already been dimple countersunk, so there isn't really any other choices to confuse them with.

Page 16-5 Figure 1, Note the rivets HL in green. It says Do Not Dimple. Move forward to page 16-8 Step 4 see it below.

We apply DR:confused: it would seem we should CS these holes after attaching the skin via proseal but this one is still a bit confusing. Maybe some one could clarify this for me, perhaps a RV10 builder?
Page 16-5 below note the 2 red arrows. What rivets go there and do we dimple or CS?:confused:

I believe earlier in the plans when it had you machine countersink the row of holes that attach the baffle it said to leave some of them (every 12th hole?) un-countersunk. That is so that there is some un-countersunk holes to help better align the baffle when it is final installed. After riveting, you countersink the remainder of the holes and install rivets.

Regarding your question related to the red arrows, my deductive reasoning can't figure out what you are asking. It says do not dimple! I will research when I have some plans to look at.
 
I believe earlier in the plans when it had you machine countersink the row of holes that attach the baffle it said to leave some of them (every 12th hole?) un-countersunk. That is so that there is some un-countersunk holes to help better align the baffle when it is final installed. After riveting, you countersink the remainder of the holes and install rivets.
When you get a set of plans in you hands please tell me the page and step # where it says to do this? I cant seem to find that Step.
In regards to the red arrow holes, jee I thought I was pretty clear with my question. I'll try again, will there ever be anything in these holes or will they remain open forever. :D
Thanks for the other answers.
 
When you get a set of plans in you hands please tell me the page and step # where it says to do this? I cant seem to find that Step.
In regards to the red arrow holes, jee I thought I was pretty clear with my question. I'll try again, will there ever be anything in these holes or will they remain open forever. :D
Thanks for the other answers.

John, I am just trying to help... I realize things can be mis-taken when written in words, but it seems like you are coming across with a bit of sarcasm?

I was stating what the intent is, I can not say whether that is actually what it says (I will look into it next week).

As for the other question... you asked "What rivets go there and do we dimple or CS?" The plans specifically say "do not dimple". That was the reason for me not understanding your question.

If you look at later pages, I think you will see that these holes with the red arrows rivet the T-00006 to the tank skin
 
After further review..........

Well after further investigation you were right. On Page 16-3 Step 6 it does say to CS all those holes HL in green. Furthermore I now under stand about the holes with the red arrows next to them. They will be CS in Step 4 on page 16-8 for #8 screws. So that answers all my questions for now. I think my problem is that I'm trying to read ahead without having the parts in my hand which at times can be quite confusing. ;) See the hole from a different angle in this pic HL in yellow, yes thats the one next to the RED ARROW, :eek:
image_zpsd689aeb3.jpg
 
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Well after further investigation you were right. On Page 16-3 Step 6 it does say to CS all those holes HL in green.

I finally got a chance to look at this in more detail, so wanted to clarify.

In step 6 it does say to machine C.S. all the tank baffle flange holes , but in the notes prior to that step, it recommends that every 10th hole be left un countersunk for now, so that during final assy, there can be clecos baring on full holes in the skin and baffle, aiding in alignment and preventing damage to an otherwise countersunk hole.
 
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