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Funding An RV Build

N

NCGAPilot

Active Member
So I'm in the process of beginning a build on an RV-12, and I'm trying to think of ways to fund it that doesn't involve taking out a loan or savings account. I honestly don't see the point of taking out a loan for a purely recreational vehicle, and the saving's account route is too slow for my taste. So far here are the expenses I'm looking at.

12x20 shop $5k for the pre-fab building itself, will have to install electricity and AC/Heat wall unit. So probably another $5k.
$2,000 for the RV-12 tool kit.
$65k for the aircraft itself.
$3-5k for a trailer.

So I'm looking at about $80k. I know I don't have to build the kit all at once (no plans on doing that), but my concern is waiting to save up the money for the engine and avionics and letting the project sit around in the shop for months while I get the fund together for those two component of the kit.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
If you don't want to save or borrow, the only thing that I can see you being able to change is the price. To reduce this you might consider a syndicate of builders to share the expense, and of course, share the build and the finished aircraft.
 
chrish said:
If you don't want to save or borrow, the only thing that I can see you being able to change is the price. To reduce this you might consider a syndicate of builders to share the expense, and of course, share the build and the finished aircraft.
Click to expand...

Well saving isn't out of the question, I'm just seeing if I have any other options.
 
8 years ago I started on a 5-year plan to pay for my airplane, and I'm still about a year from finishing it. If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way. Like you, I refuse to borrow money for what is realistically "a toy."
 
I am aggressively saving for a flying RV. I am on a one to three year plan based on buying an RV-4 or an RV-8. I will pay cash at that time and will not finance the plane. To start I decided how much money I needed and drew up a budget that cut out anything that was not absolutely necessary. I have a fixed weekly allowance and must make that last. I am forced to make wise spending choices during the week. If there is something I want but can?t afford then I don?t buy it. When I use all my weekly allowance than that is it till next week. I never use a credit card to pay for anything (except avgas but that is in the budget). If I can?t pay cash then I don?t need it. It is basically a lifestyle change for me. With that said, I have had to make some tough choices. To start I traded in my F-150 that gets 13 MPG highway for a more fuel efficient Ford Focus. That move alone will return about $11,000 over 5 years based on the mileage I drive. I have had to give up some hobbies. For example I sold my trailer and snowmobile, I am slowly selling all of my radio controlled airplanes and putting all that money into my airplane account. This also saves me money in the future by not having to fund those hobbies (gas, insurance, etc.). Other lifestyle changes include not eating out as much. Eating cheap when I do. Yes I want that Big Mac combo but settle for something off the Dollar menu instead. Turning off lights in the house when I am not in a room, eliminating or combining trips in the car to save gas, accelerating slower and driving at a reduced speed on the highway to save gas, doing things that are free instead of activities that cost money. I have a basic flip phone instead of an expensive smart phone. I follow my budget religiously. I don?t spend money that I do not have to. I would cancel cable TV if I could (cant get that one by the wife :rolleyes:). I am fortunate to own a pristine Cessna 150 and can enjoy flying that while saving for the RV. I refuse to stop flying but must stick to my budgeted hours per week. It takes a lot of discipline, sacrifice and focus to stay on projection toward such a long range goal. I can visualize myself in my new RV and some day that vision will be a reality. I could have an RV now if I financed but dont consider that a reasonable alternative. Operating a plane is expensive enough without having to put a mortgage in the equation. I could build an RV now...paying as I go instead of saving but in the end it will still take the same amount of time to complete the project or generate the funds needed to purchase a flying example. Truthfully, I wish I could build my own but I am not in a position in life to dedicate the amount of time needed to do so. Best of luck!
Dom
 
There is no way around it, the big money happens near the end of your build with any of the models. So, if you have the cash to build and finish an RV, you have the cash to buy one.

However, finding what you want in a finished RV can be really hard, except if you want a 12. You can readily see build quality and equipment differences in all of the other models. Not so much in the 12. One 12 is pretty much just like another. It was designed to be so. Even the paint jobs are typically similar.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the 12 is great and building an airplane is a priceless experience after all and I mean that sincerely. So, point being, you have to really want to build. And as Greg says, if you want it bad enough, you will find a way.

Dom - I really like your attitude and vision of what you want. I have no doubt you will achieve it.
 
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There are some great RVs on the market ready to fly away for less than you will spend building and you will be flying years earlier than you would otherwise be. Unless you are super excited and adimant about building, go and get a loan ( and a second job) and start paying it off. The skies are calling your name.

Paul
 
In a way, I was in the "right place at the right time". I built a "slow build" RV-6A, which took 8 years to build. To my way of thinking, the problem with the "new kits" (especially the 12) is that it's almost a given that you'll "out-build" your billfold! Eventhough it took me 8 years, I was able to build my 6A "out of my billfold".

Life will through many unexpected curve balls at you. My advice is not to start your project until you can fully fund it within a two year time frame, without borrowng any money.

Save your money, finish school and wait til your able to fund the project.
 
Hi NCGA Pilot

You are obviously motivated and I too think you will find a way.

Back in the early 1980's I was into soaring and had a friend who wanted to buy a nice glider. His situation might have been similar to yours. He got a job delivering the LA Times early in the morning before his regular job, put all the pay from that into his flying account, and in a couple of years time, he had saved up the price of the glider. He then bought it with cash and was very happy to give up the early morning job.

I guess the message is to think outside the box.

Good luck!

PeterVS
RV3
Cessna 210
Taylorcraft
Harmon Rocket abuilding
 
The -12 tool kit is Not $2000. Go to Cleaveland, I got their kit plus misc. non-aircraft tools I already had. Inexpensive bench grinder, inexpensive bench bandsaw with metal cutting blade, inexpensive belt sander. Search the tools threads for bargains. Why buy a trailer? A friend will have one to take the fuse and wings to the airport, or rent one. 12s have been built in a one car garage. If you build a building to build the 12, you will still have it so don't charge it all against the -12! The build was hugely fun! You can offset some of the cost by charging yourself admission to the shop!
 
Maj. Woody said:
I am aggressively saving for a flying RV. I am on a one to three year plan based on buying an RV-4 or an RV-8. I will pay cash at that time and will not finance the plane.

To start I decided how much money I needed and drew up a budget that cut out anything that was not absolutely necessary. I have a fixed weekly allowance and must make that last. I am forced to make wise spending choices during the week. If there is something I want but can?t afford then I don?t buy it. When I use all my weekly allowance than that is it till next week.

I never use a credit card to pay for anything (except avgas but that is in the budget). If I can?t pay cash then I don?t need it. It is basically a lifestyle change for me. With that said, I have had to make some tough choices. To start I traded in my F-150 that gets 13 MPG highway for a more fuel efficient Ford Focus. That move alone will return about $11,000 over 5 years based on the mileage I drive.

I have had to give up some hobbies. For example I sold my trailer and snowmobile, I am slowly selling all of my radio controlled airplanes and putting all that money into my airplane account. This also saves me money in the future by not having to fund those hobbies (gas, insurance, etc.). Other lifestyle changes include not eating out as much. Eating cheap when I do. Yes I want that Big Mac combo but settle for something off the Dollar menu instead. Turning off lights in the house when I am not in a room, eliminating or combining trips in the car to save gas, accelerating slower and driving at a reduced speed on the highway to save gas, doing things that are free instead of activities that cost money.

I have a basic flip phone instead of an expensive smart phone. I follow my budget religiously. I don?t spend money that I do not have to. I would cancel cable TV if I could (cant get that one by the wife :rolleyes:). I am fortunate to own a pristine Cessna 150 and can enjoy flying that while saving for the RV. I refuse to stop flying but must stick to my budgeted hours per week. It takes a lot of discipline, sacrifice and focus to stay on projection toward such a long range goal.

I can visualize myself in my new RV and some day that vision will be a reality. I could have an RV now if I financed but dont consider that a reasonable alternative. Operating a plane is expensive enough without having to put a mortgage in the equation. I could build an RV now...paying as I go instead of saving but in the end it will still take the same amount of time to complete the project or generate the funds needed to purchase a flying example.

Truthfully, I wish I could build my own but I am not in a position in life to dedicate the amount of time needed to do so. Best of luck!
Dom
Click to expand...

Go buy one done and enjoy.....
 
Maybe you "need" a plane for some business related activity and can write it off of your taxes. :D
Where there's a will, there's a way and you sound determined.
 
If you're not stuck on a -12 there's alot of unfinished projects out there that can save you a bundle of money. If you don't want to borrow money then you'll have to save it. Step one for me was to get debt free. No car payments, student loan payments, toy payments, etc.... Then account for every penny every month. Put it in a spreadsheet or similar program and really find out how much cash you can stash every month. You'll find money you never knew you had!
 
cropdusterdave said:
If you're not stuck on a -12 there's alot of unfinished projects out there that can save you a bundle of money.
Click to expand...

Dave stated what I have been thinking reading thru this thread. It is possible to purchase most of the tools and materials for the project used, saving many thousands of dollars. The -7, -8 and -9 can be built for about 1/2 of the typical selling price with some scrounging and a bit of good luck.
 
cropdusterdave said:
If you're not stuck on a -12 there's alot of unfinished projects out there that can save you a bundle of money. If you don't want to borrow money then you'll have to save it. Step one for me was to get debt free. No car payments, student loan payments, toy payments, etc.... Then account for every penny every month. Put it in a spreadsheet or similar program and really find out how much cash you can stash every month. You'll find money you never knew you had!
Click to expand...

I actually am not married to the -12. My main mission is to build an aircraft that is for recreational flights in the Southeast on my days off (I live in NC, most of my flights will take place in NC & SC) and of course flying to the big air shows like AirVenture, Sun'n'Fun & Sebring. I am a Sport Pilot because the aircrafts and license sit my mission of a purely recreational way of flying.
 
NCGAPilot said:
12x20 shop $5k for the pre-fab building itself, will have to install electricity and AC/Heat wall unit. So probably another $5k.
$2,000 for the RV-12 tool kit.
$65k for the aircraft itself.
$3-5k for a trailer.
Click to expand...

You didn't mention a foundation (slab). Is that including in your price for the building? At today's concrete prices, the slab can be a considerable portion of the building.
 
NCGAPilot said:
12x20 shop $5k for the pre-fab building itself, will have to install electricity and AC/Heat wall unit. So probably another $5k.
$2,000 for the RV-12 tool kit.
$65k for the aircraft itself.
$3-5k for a trailer.
Click to expand...

-do you need a shop? A one car garage will fit a build if your organized. If you do, forget the ac/heat unit. It sucks, but if your on a budget that'll save u a ton. Plus, 5k may be a gross underestimation for a shop.

-you can save on those tools if your frugal

-if you have a buddy with welding skills, you can buy a utility trailer off Craigslist for a couple hundred and modify it to your needs.
 
OR.. you could buy one built to your specs (color and options) for $75,000, including paint. We have several being built at schools around the country. Let's see, same price range (less than you project by about $10k painted,) same time frame (1-2 years) and a couple dozen kids get great experiences to boot. Even pay as you go instead of all at once. There is probably a school near you, even though the one we are finishing now is going to end up over 1000 miles away. You might have seen the first at Oshkosh last year. If so, you saw really good workmanship. There should be three there this year. Check them out if you doubt kids can build a FINE airplane. No, we don't wait until they are done to sell them. Just another option anyone can check out.

Bob
 
Mel said:
You didn't mention a foundation (slab). Is that including in your price for the building? At today's concrete prices, the slab can be a considerable portion of the building.
Click to expand...

My dad and I will probably pour the foundation ourselves.

FresnoR said:
-do you need a shop? A one car garage will fit a build if your organized. If you do, forget the ac/heat unit. It sucks, but if your on a budget that'll save u a ton. Plus, 5k may be a gross underestimation for a shop.

-you can save on those tools if your frugal

-if you have a buddy with welding skills, you can buy a utility trailer off Craigslist for a couple hundred and modify it to your needs.
Click to expand...

The shop is required since the two car garage that is on my property is used in my own business.

videobobk said:
OR.. you could buy one built to your specs (color and options) for $75,000, including paint. We have several being built at schools around the country. Let's see, same price range (less than you project by about $10k painted,) same time frame (1-2 years) and a couple dozen kids get great experiences to boot. Even pay as you go instead of all at once. There is probably a school near you, even though the one we are finishing now is going to end up over 1000 miles away. You might have seen the first at Oshkosh last year. If so, you saw really good workmanship. There should be three there this year. Check them out if you doubt kids can build a FINE airplane. No, we don't wait until they are done to sell them. Just another option anyone can check out.

Bob
Click to expand...

Well one of the reason I'm building is so I can do all the maintenance and annuals myself. Which would save me a ton of money in operating cost.
 
***RESEARCH & PLANNING***

Not to sound like a jerk... but plan and research. The cost of the plane alone is a fraction of the actual cost of ownership. Read a book called "Kit Aircraft Construction" it will definitely add some real perspective to your delema. As I believe Mel says, build an airplane because you want to build... NOT because you want an airplane!!!! the price tag is a bit of an illusion. You can get your A&P and a 1980s c-172 for much less then a RV 12 and be in the same place. NEVER go into debt while building... if you do, maybe you should reconsider the build. I've planned my build for 10 years before even starting. Even on a $1500.a month plane budget it gets tight from time to time.
 
NCGAPilot said:
My dad and I will probably pour the foundation ourselves.
Well one of the reason I'm building is so I can do all the maintenance and annuals myself. Which would save me a ton of money in operating cost.
Click to expand...

Remember, even if you purchase a flying homebuilt, you can still do all the maintenance & repairs yourself. The only thing you must pay for is the condition inspection. The cost seems to vary wildly by area, but my cost for the most recent inspection went up by 33%. To $200.00. Not a big percentage of ownership expenses.

Charlie
 
As the article in the EAA SportAir indicated, I funded part of my construction by delivering papers, but there was no way that was going to do much more than get me started. The cost of tools was pretty high initially, as people have said.

I floated a loan for the engine, which is the only part of the build for which I got a loan. To me, it makes some sense. Interest is cheap and deductible (3.99%) but you do need to be disciplined onthe payback.

And, to me, THAT's the key word in this effort -- discipline. You really do have, as people have pointed out, ways to spend less. And in our case, we also didn't replace cars (which allowed money that was going to them to go to paying off the loan, once the car loans were paid off).

I'm flying now, but unfortunately, I need to buy some cars soon. :(

It is VERY possible to understate the cost of finishing once you get to that point, insurance, transition training, sales taxes and registration all come pretty much at once.

As far as the costs of actual flying, I think these are among the most manageable costs because you kind of know what they're going to be and can set aside funds. No money for gas? You don't fly. Period. Problem solved. You can end up throwing a lot of money on a credit card, but , again, you need the discipline to pay those things off every month.

It is possible to build these things and not have a fat pension or a company you own. You do have to manage the tendency to want something just because everyone else has one and to recognize that the 6 year old EFIS you have is just fine and if you're a VFR pilot and you don't have Skyview or the latest thing, just remind yourself how much you're saving by looking out the window and seeing the real thing. :eek:

Frugal will come back in style someday.
 
LettersFromFlyoverCountry said:
...Frugal will come back in style someday.
Click to expand...

I like that quote! That's the only way I'll ever be "in style". I run cars 10-12 years (at 30K miles/year), and still live in the <1300ft^2 house I bought between wives 11+ years ago. An earlier poster mentioned not being able to convince his wife to cancel cable. I'm in that same boat with my wife, but my reason for wanting to cancel is more for the decrease in wasted time than a decrease in expenses. I am however, still watching TV on a more or less square CRT. (Those of you under 30 might have to google that one...:D)

As for saving money for the project, I throw about 130/week into my company stock plan (over and above my retirement savings), and have been for 10-12 years. It comes out of my pay before I see it (pay yourself first!), so I've learned to live without it. I pulled a chunk out about a year ago for both the wing and fuselage kits, and balance is already back about where it was before. There's enough there now to finish the project. If the market slows down, I'll slow down.
 
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Well one of the reason I'm building is so I can do all the maintenance and annuals myself. Which would save me a ton of money in operating cost.
Click to expand...

On an E-LSA RV-12, you can do the maintenance, whether you built it or not. To do the annual (condition inspection) on either one, you have to take the class. So, things are pretty much the same. Light Sport is different from other experimentals when it comes time for the condition inspection.
 
I set up a separate account for my Cessna 150. Each week $125 comes out of my check and goes into the account. That pays my fixed costs...Hangar, Insurance, Annual. Now each time I fly, I pay for fuel but also pay myself per hour for my engine overhaul and general maintenance. What I did was determine how long I had till TBO. Then divided the estimated cost of the overhaul by the hours remaining on the engine. I plan for a factory reman so I estimated $25,000. I then tacked on some extra money for routine maintenance and came up with a figure of $30 per hour. So I only fly if I can afford it. I need to cover the cost of fuel and $30 per hour I fly. When I get home I simply multiply my flight time by $30 and transfer that money into my airplane account. When the time for maintenance or the overhaul comes, I will have the money waiting. I will not be one of those sitting on a run out airplane they cant afford to fix. So....If I dont have the money to cover the fuel and my reserve, I do not fly....no matter how good the weather is. It is all about discipline.
Dom
 
I floated a loan for the engine said:
And, to me, THAT's the key word in this effort -- discipline. You really do have, as people have pointed out, ways to spend less. And in our case, we also didn't replace cars (which allowed money that was going to them to go to paying off the loan, once the car loans were paid off).
Click to expand...


I'd love to learn about the interest deduction! I'm guessing second mortgage on your home?

I bit the bullet up front on cars and bought into something that's going to last forever (or at least my forever). Now they're paid for and its time to turn to a plane.

The RV-12 for me was all about cost of operation and knowing fully the cost to build it. I was perplexed about the true cost to build other models and for that matter other manufactures aircraft. You can figure the cost of the airframe kits but there's much more than that which goes into even a basic aircraft. Stuff I don't even know about and therefore can't budget for.

Everything you need for the 12 is there but the oil and the paint. The cost is known up front. Take the weekend classes and you are the maintenance god. Personally I'll probably have someone else go over the Rotax even with the classes at least until I get comfortable.

I also took a look at the cost of fuel/hr. The Rotax uses about half the fuel of a 172. I know I could pull the throttle back on the RV-9 and get there but I'm not good at that!

Of course for me having an the LSA aircraft was also very valuable. As I get older I can appreciate that I don't need to fly 4 people at 200 mph (even though I'd like too - I drool over RV-10's!). That driver’s license medical means the plane I'm getting ready to spend time and more importantly dollars on, will be with me longer. I can fly forever!

An engine kit is what $28k, the airframe is ~$23k and the instruments are approaching $15k. So how do I get there?

For me I've bought the tail/emp (and rivets). I have tools from my RV-9 start and will still need a few more but I can get started. I plan on getting friendly with NAFCO and just financing it. When I buy the tail that applies to the 15% down for the rest of the airframe kit. When I get that done its the same thing, I refi the airframe for the avionics and engine. When you buy those last big pieces NAFCO (or who ever you finance through - I get no discounts for using a company name here) considers it a full aircraft even if its still just parts. I'm glad others don't need to finance, but realistically unless I just buy an old 172 with a good engine (still going to cost 35k), then I'll never get there.

Everyone has a different path and different priorities. Even then, sometimes the road has twists and turns you don't plan on. It's called life. You just do what you can and get started. Join the EAA and local chapter and buy the tail kit. I imagine it won't take long until you have helping hands and loaner tools and then viola - real airplane parts.

It's a journey and like all journeys you will learn and grow along the way...and so will your plane!

Bob
 
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Sorry, yes, I should've made that more clear -- it was a home equity line. Back in the '90s, when everyone was pulling out equity of their homes and refinancing -- and resetting the interest-payment block -- I refinanced to knock 5 years off the 30-years, and build equity faster for possible future use.

The mortgage will be paid off in 4 more years. I look on that day it as "gas money!" :D
 
Mate, this plane is on Barnstormers at the moment and looks like excellent value. He states 72 grand invested and my bet is that is conservative. Save yourself a couple of thousand hours, make him an offer and take to the skies

REDUCED $15K! 1995 Low time RV6A for sale! 693 hours total time since new on aircraft, engine and prop. Factory New Lycoming 160 hp O320 D1A. Factory New Hartzell constant speed prop. Basic IFR, Dynon D10A EFIS, KN 53 nav, KI 209 indicator, garmin 195 GPS, navaid autopilot. Over $72K invested. Impeccably maintained by Owner/A&P. Always kept in a hanger. Excellent craftsmanship! Complete Logs. No damage history. Cruise at 180 mph on 7 gph. Based in Ogden, Utah. I have to sell it to finish my RV7, I'll keep reducing the price until it's sold so get it before it?s gone! $57K. ? Contact Matthew L. Kimber, Owner - located Clinton, UT USA ? Telephone: 8017212648 . ? Posted February 17,
 
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