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  #1  
Old 08-07-2019, 07:35 PM
chrisi456 chrisi456 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: POWAY
Posts: 18
Default Titan engine still burning too much oil

I have a Titan 370 in my RV-8 and I'm still burning 1 qt of oil for 5 flight hours, with 225 hours on my engine. This has been an on going issue for several years, obviously. Talking with Titan, Bobby Looper and all, I used Phillips X/C 20W-50 for break in oil and continuing on with it, as per Bobby. According to Aeroshell, that was the improper oil for break in and it appears to be too late now. Talking with Continental at Oshkosh, I was told to borescope the cylinders and send them the pics which I did today, haven't sent the pics yet. There was oil sitting in two cylinders. Several people have suggested it needs a light hone then re-brake in the engine. Talked to my engine mech at the airport and he said carbide nickel cylinders cannot be honed. So, I am here to find out from the vast knowledge of information here what course of action do I now take. Live with it? What about the long term potential damage? Can't hone, so the other options is new cylinders, extremely expensive. Ideas please?
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  #2  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:05 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisi456 View Post
I have a Titan 370 in my RV-8 and I'm still burning 1 qt of oil for 5 flight hours, with 225 hours on my engine. This has been an on going issue for several years, obviously. Talking with Titan, Bobby Looper and all, I used Phillips X/C 20W-50 for break in oil and continuing on with it, as per Bobby. According to Aeroshell, that was the improper oil for break in and it appears to be too late now. Talking with Continental at Oshkosh, I was told to borescope the cylinders and send them the pics which I did today, haven't sent the pics yet. There was oil sitting in two cylinders. Several people have suggested it needs a light hone then re-brake in the engine. Talked to my engine mech at the airport and he said carbide nickel cylinders cannot be honed. So, I am here to find out from the vast knowledge of information here what course of action do I now take. Live with it? What about the long term potential damage? Can't hone, so the other options is new cylinders, extremely expensive. Ideas please?
The VansAirforce archives could be your friend here. Hereís a thread from 2012 that dealt with break-in using Phillips X/C 20W-50.
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=93573
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  #3  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:08 PM
Norman CYYJ Norman CYYJ is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Victoria B.C.
Posts: 1,206
Default

Our local flying club breaks all their engines in using Phillips oil and continue to use it till overhaul time which is typically 3500 hours, they have 13 aircraft and each puts about 1200 hrs per year. I have broken engines in using both types of oils and had no problems. I think the secret to it is not baby the engine in the first 20 hours or so and run them hard till the temperatures stabilize before you start flying around on low power settings.
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  #4  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:47 PM
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miyu1975 miyu1975 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,054
Default

So an Aershell rep told you not use Philips XC20/50 as break in oil., or probably to use at all....

SHOCKING
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:26 PM
jump4way jump4way is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Coolidge, AZ
Posts: 329
Default Me too

I donít have the answer but share your same problems. Cerminil cylinders using Phillips 20/50 XC. 1 qt every 5 hours. Iím at 130 hours. Iím thinking I glazed my cylinders. I wasnít able to push my engine hard at first because my fuel system required tuning at various rpms.

Cerminil cylinders can be honed but require special tooling. Diamond tipped I think.

If you find the solution, please let us know!
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:18 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,306
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Your mechanic is incorrect. The Aeroshell person you spoke to also is incorrect. Your cylinders are glazed. Nickel carbide cylinders can be honed. See ECI service bulletin 92-9-6. Hone, new rings, and gentle breakin with several ground runs of a few minutes not to exceed 300 CHT using X/C oil and you should be good.
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  #7  
Old 08-08-2019, 10:49 AM
Jim Ball Jim Ball is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 15
Default Current NiC3 cylinder honing instructions

Actually Continental Motors published a new Service Information Letter
( SIL002 ) on the honing tool and procedure. It is posted here;

http://continental.aero/titan/documentation.aspx

Go to the Continental web site, click the Support tab, then Service Bulletins
and there click the choice for PMA and Experimental.

ECi had a kit that used diamond stones, Continental tested an found that the hone tool with " boron balls " works fine.
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2019, 11:54 AM
chrisi456 chrisi456 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: POWAY
Posts: 18
Default

Thanks Jim. I did follow the break in procedures, ran hard. The Phillips oil that the Aeroshell rep said would have worked was Phillips 20w-50, not X/C 20w-50, although it seems many people here were successful with it. My new concern was if carbide nickel cylinders can be honed. My local Mech said they could not be. The info you provided said they could be, ref Continental Aircraft.

Thanks for he information,

Chris
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2019, 12:34 PM
sjhurlbut sjhurlbut is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 643
Default Phillips

Either Phillips oil will work as long as there is no additive.

Iíd borescope and take a look. Compression test might show a weaker compression but chances are when cylinder at tdc it will be perfect compression.

Obviously youíve checked breather tube and itís not dumping oil onto the belly? Or any where else on engine? Inside of cowling relatively clean?

1 quart in 5 hours is not terrible in my opinion. Max allowed is 1 quart every hour which is obviously way too much. Plus it would be embarrassing to run out of oil before fuel.

Iíve seen engines exhibit this when owners continuously fill it back to 8 quarts. You may find that after the engine looses a quart and stabilized at 7 quarts youíre calculated oil consumption decreases.
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:52 PM
oaklandaviator oaklandaviator is offline
 
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Location: Somerville, Tn and Little Rock, Ar
Posts: 84
Default X/C

Right on the Phillips site it says the X/C is recommended during break in and beyond.
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