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  #1  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:12 PM
Desert Rat Desert Rat is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: 50-50 Wichita KS & Scottsdale AZ
Posts: 79
Default Can I give instruction???

My friend is in the process of buying a new to him RV6A. He used to own an RV6 but has never flown a 6A. Due to a change in underwriter or something, the insurance company is requiring 5 hours of dual before it will cover him.

I've never flown an RV, but due to several thousand hours in the big book, including a ton of instruction given, he's telling me that he can get me covered with a simple checkout from the current owner (also a CFII), with the goal of me giving him the 5 hours of dual on the way home from picking it up.

I'm lukewarm to the whole idea, but before I decide one way or the other, I need to understand my privileges and limitations in this scenario.

I've got a call in to EAA to clarify this, but in the mean time I though I'd throw it out here;

Once the insurance company blesses me, can I give this guy dual instruction in his airplane without any other exemption? To I need any sort of minimum time in type?

Not saying it's a good idea, just want to know what the legalities are.
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:26 PM
Tankerpilot75 Tankerpilot75 is offline
 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 431
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Wouldnít do this to a friend or anyone else - period! The purpose of the insurance company requiring a ďminimumĒ of five hours dual transition instruction is safety. If youíve never flown an RV aircraft how can you think that you could effectively teach someone to safely fly one?

Pardon my frankness but I canít even understand how you could ask the question much less consider the idea.
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IO-360, Hartzel CS prop, Older Aerotronics built panel Dual GRT Horizon WS, GRT EIS, Garmin 340, 335, Dual 430s, TruTrak 385 A/P with auto level, FlightBox hard wired to WS, Dynon D10A with internal battery (backup EFIS), 406 MHz ELT.
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:36 PM
Desert Rat Desert Rat is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: 50-50 Wichita KS & Scottsdale AZ
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Because he has close to 100 hours in a RV6, but no time in an RV6A. It's a strange scenario. Once again, I'm not saying it's a good idea, just need to understand if there's some kind of loophole here.

In the certified world, I know what the rules are. Here I'm not so sure. Seems odd that an insurance company would allow me to do a 1 hour checkout and then give somebody transition training, but that seems to be the case. That's why I'm asking the question.
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  #4  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:55 PM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,364
Default

You may legally give him dual instruction in his airplane.
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Mel Asberry..DAR since last century
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Specializing in Amateur-Built and Light-Sport Aircraft
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
North Texas (8TA5)
RV-6 Flying since 1993, 172hp O-320, 3-Blade Catto (since 2003)Sold
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Last edited by Mel : 07-30-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2019, 03:57 PM
Brdog42 Brdog42 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Cone of Confusion
Posts: 73
Default No CFI?

With just an MEI & CFII and no CFI, you donít have privileges to instruct in an ASEL. Or am I missing something?🤔

Tim
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:16 PM
Desert Rat Desert Rat is offline
 
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Location: 50-50 Wichita KS & Scottsdale AZ
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I have a CFI, CFII etc.

Donít want to get into a big argument, but just so weíre clear: for certificated SEL airplanes that donít require a type rating, thereís no requirement that you have ANY time in a specific model before giving dual in it. Heck even for multi or helicopter, youíre only required to have 5 hours make and model.

Thatís the law, but in a practical sense, itís driven by insurance. Iím unsure if the waiver requirements for experimental and it seemed odd that insurance was willing to bless me with such a superficial check, so I thought Iíd ask

Thanks for all the replies
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2019, 04:32 PM
Brdog42 Brdog42 is offline
 
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Location: Cone of Confusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Rat View Post
I have a CFI, CFII etc.

Donít want to get into a big argument, but just so weíre clear: for certificated SEL airplanes that donít require a type rating, thereís no requirement that you have ANY time in a specific model before giving dual in it. Heck even for multi or helicopter, youíre only required to have 5 hours make and model.
Terry,

Yes, Iíve always found that odd. Similar to an A&P having such a wide range, as well.

Hey, add CFI to your signature. Iíve seen some Military Comp pilots with a CFII and MEI, or just a CFII and no CFI. Thatís strange too.

To your original question... For me it would be very dependent on the pilot youíd be giving dual. Iíve seen some pilots with a small pilot resume, but are great pilots. Solid skills, solid ADM, etc. And others with a lot of stuff on their resume but their skills/thought process... not so good.
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2019, 06:00 PM
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flightlogic flightlogic is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,547
Default skills

If you have solid teaching skills and a good feel for aircraft control, I don't see a problem. Keep the curriculum simple until you both add experience in the type. They are very simple planes... much less twitchy than the Luscombes and other tail draggers of past times. It will be a learning experience for both pilots. Knowing how far to extend the envelope and when and where to call it a day.... is something that a log book does not indicate.
I am sure air chair experts will demand to know how you can even think about such a thing. I suspect they have limited real world aviation background but don't hesitate to type away on the forum.
Anyway, good thing you are doing homework, and checking around. That indicates a fair measure of caution already. Have fun too.
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2019, 07:36 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Okay, here are the rules:
If you have a cfi-SEL and comm (or atp) SEL, then the faa and fars donít care. They say youíre good to go.
If the insurance company says theyíll cover you, then get it in writing or on tape.
You may charge the new owner for your services, once he owns the airplane. BUT, the current owner may not charge you for checking you out. The distinction is whether the cfi provides the airplane (not allowed for EAB) or the pilot being checked out provides the airplane (allowed, he doesnít rent it to himself). *
Now, whether or not you feel comfortable and competent giving dual, after an hour of instruction from another cfi, is a question only you can answer. IMHO a nose wheel RV is not a particular difficult plane to fly (does it have dual brakes?).
* If the current owner has a waiver to allow dual for hire in his plane, you may be able to pay him, if you have a legitimate need.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2019, 07:57 PM
lr172 lr172 is online now
 
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Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Rat View Post
My friend is in the process of buying a new to him RV6A. He used to own an RV6 but has never flown a 6A. Due to a change in underwriter or something, the insurance company is requiring 5 hours of dual before it will cover him.
I would get your buddy to push this issue a bit harder with the underwriter. Seems pretty rediculous to require 5 hours of dual when he already has 100 hours in that make / model. I can't believe there is a real risk to them because his time is in a taildragger. I might understand it if he was going from a 6A to 6. Seems pretty common knowledge that nose wheel aircraft are generally less accident prone in the landing phase. All other aspects of flight are identical.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 07-30-2019 at 08:00 PM.
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