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Used Lycoming Engines

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daniel_fisher

I'm New Here
Hey all,

I'm a prospective RV-4 builder and am in the process of looking to find a powerplant of the 0-320ish variety. I've looked at new and factory rebuild options from lycoming and aerosport power, but if possible I'd like to spend a little less than the 19G's they want for them. I know nothing in aviation is cheap, but any sites or contacts anyone has regarding engines would be greatly appreciated. I would definitely consider used as well.

P.S. anyone know what kind of deal vans gives on the Lyc's?

Thanks

DF
 
Check with Air Salvage yards. Air Salvage of Dallas is particularly good. Call and talk to Lucky Louque (pronounced Luke). He doesn't have engines often, but when he does, you couldn't buy from a more honest guy. If you find an engine, be sure you get a "run sheet" with it. If you buy used from an individual, try to fly behind the engine if possible and get an A&P to do a pre-purchase inspection. Example: I bought an O-320-E3D from Lucky that had 2500 hrs since new (first run). I flew it for over 300 more hrs before I rebuilt it and is was still within specs then. Look for an engine that has been flown regularly, preferably in a dry climate. If you would like to discuss further, call me 972-784-7544.
Mel...DAR
 
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As MEl said, Lucky is the man. I've yet to fly my -4, but Lucky got me a o-320 E2C and you wouldn't believe the history and paper work that came with it. He's also been a great help with ideas and problem solving. I'm in North Carolina and he's in Texas but has always stopped to help me when I called or had business out in Texas and I would drop by.
 
Barnstormer: I picked up an O-320-C2B 160hp first run-out. It came unbolted right off another RV-4 with the engine mounts, baffling and gear legs. Sweet deal! I did however have prior knowledge of the guy who was selling it.

PIX are on the bottom of this page.
http://www.precision3d.com/rv4/rv4fwfwd.htm

-Bruce
 
Thanks

I'm in Nova Scotia (Canada) so I'm thinking barnstormers or wentworth is probably going to be the way to go...If anyone is from around here and has any local contacts, that would be sweet; however, I will give Lucky a call when the time comes :)
Thanks for the input all.

Cheers

DF
 
Trade A Plane and network

daniel_fisher said:
I'm a prospective RV-4 builder and am in the process of looking to find a powerplant of the 0-320ish variety.

I've looked at new and factory rebuild options from lycoming and aerosport power, but if possible I'd like to spend a little less than the 19G's they want for them. I know nothing in aviation is cheap, but any sites or contacts anyone has regarding engines would be greatly appreciated. I would definitely consider used as well. P.S. anyone know what kind of deal vans gives on the Lyc's? Thanks DF
Click to expand...
First if you are not close to hanging the engine buying one early can be a bad move, unless you are looking for a core or parts to build up later. Also you need to know what O320 you want and more important don't want.

I know you are asking WHERE to buy not WHAT to buy, but you have to decide what you want to be buy and be prepared to get it NOW, meaning have the cash and time to get it. If you don't have the $8,000 to buy a nice engine out of say a C172 that is getting an engine upgrade, than why look, right. Or may be you are looking for a core to rebuild. Also get the list of engines that will work for you, kind of work for you and will not. Do your research so you can ID what you want. It would suck to get your engine and find it des not fit. Do you absolutly want a Dynafocal? Are you OK with an 150HP, fixed pitch solid crank. Know what you want and don't want before you start to look.


A hanger queen engine sitting in the corner or "core" to rebuild can be OK if it is A) good and B) cheap. A rebuild is going to cost in round numbers, $10,000 or more. Unless you are buying a core for well under say $4000 you may end up being close the the 19G's you mention, and than you will just have a used engine rebuilt. I would rather a new engine even at the price premium. However I encourage you to go on the hunt. Many times people want a $mint$ for a piece of junk. If you are going to pay anything more than say $5000, expect something that at least runs, even if its higher time. Again best is something that is running or has run recently and has the papers, log book and some reliable service and maintenance history.


A subscription to Trade-A-Plane is a must. I would recommend the fast overnight subscription, but I guess they have an internet service. What ever subscription service you get, get the faster delivery, since a good deal is likely to go fast. Good luck on your hunt. Deals are out there and can save you many thousand. You have every right to expect a good engine for well under $10,000 that will provide good service for years to come, but you have to look, make calls and check all the classifieds frequently.


Put the feelers out like you are doing, but it sounds like you have plenty of time. There may be a dusty O320's sitting in the corner of a hanger just for you. My suggestion is get an engine, mid to lower time, that is running you can just bolt-in and use. A good source is sometimes RV'ers upgrading to the O360. Sometimes you get the Firewall forward, prop, baffles, mounts and all kind of goodies.

George
 
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Re: Used Lycomings

I too decided 19K was too much so I went to a local airboat engine builder here in Central FL. He built me up a new (no data plate)0-320D (170HP) 9.6:1 compression with aftermarket airboat pistons and rods and rebuilt cyllinders. It now 130 trouble-free hours and has burned 5 quarts of oil, total! $6000 out the door with no accessories. Also, there is a used Lycoming friend in TX who will sell you a certified used high-time 0-320 for the same price, 6K. Contact me off-line for details.

RR
[email protected]
 
smokyray said:
He built me up a new (no data plate)0-320D (170HP) 9.6:1 compression with aftermarket airboat pistons and rods and rebuilt cyllinders. It now 130 trouble-free hours and has burned 5 quarts of oil, total! $6000 out the door with no accessories.
Click to expand...

Whoa, 6 grand for an overhauled O-320? Sweeet! And I thought I found a pretty good deal...

For what it's worth, here's my used Lycoming story; a local flight school in Houston was parting out an O-360-A1D powered Geronimo Apache. Both engines had roughly 1660 hrs since a Lycoming factory reman in '95; another RV builder and I bought 'em for $6,000 each. The engine was running well when pulled, good compressions and didn't use much oil; I'd even flown it for a bit before we bought, so I felt fairly confident about the whole thing. I even entertained the idea of just cleaning it up, retouching the paint, bolt it on and fly, but... it'd had a minor prop strike awhile back and I wanted to see what the guts looked like.

So, I tore it down, shipped the case to Divco and everything else to ECI. All checked out fine and the crankshaft was good (yea!). I then had a shop in Conroe reassemble it for me.

Costs?
$6000 for the core.
$1545 bottom end stuff overhauled.
$3147 cylinders overhauled, Cerminil, new pistons/valves
$1936 for misc stuff; gaskets/vernatherm/fuel pump/bearings, etc.

$12,628 Grand total for the base engine, no accessories. Add $1500 labor for reassembly and I'm up to $14,128. Still not too bad, methinks.

Me being the cheapskate that I am, I kinda like saving a few thousand bucks... compared to an XP-360 it looks like I'm around $5,000 ahead. Gotta offset the cost of the QB option somehow! The downside is, no warranty or test cell time...

John
-8 QB FWF
 
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Clarification

Hey all,

I just wanted to clarify that I'm not in position to purchase an engine at this point. It may be worth noting (probably should have done that in the beginning :eek: ) that I have yet to start the building process. If all goes well, I should be able to start the empennage in the spring, however as a 21yo university student, funds are hard to come by as many of you can probably relate (should change for the better within the next 2 years) so things are moving rather slowly right now...but hey, a builders gotta start somewhere, right?

I appreciate all the feedback on the issue and also offers for engines I've received. I'm confident that there are good deals out there (thx Dale) and the knowledge I've gained thus far on this site has been incredible. The experience level of members is phenomenal and I'd like to thank everybody for their input.

I'll get there eventually. Happy riveting.

Cheers

DF
 
Good Question

daniel_fisher said:
Hey all,

I just wanted to clarify that I'm not in position to purchase an engine at this point. It may be worth noting (probably should have done that in the beginning :eek: ) that I have yet to start the building process. I'll get there eventually. Happy riveting.

Cheers DF
Click to expand...
That is OK the info helps everyone. John above has a good scenario and has a nice engine for a $5,000 grand saving. You (anyone) may be able to find a good running engine core for less, if you are lucky and look. However if you get a bad core. :mad: Ouch! The best scenario for economy is a running engine that can be used as is with out overhaul. George
 
Used engine options

Glad to see others have successful solutions to the "Costly Engine Decision". Another option that worked for me was to place an ad in Trade-A-Plane. I procured a used 180hp O-360 from an aircraft having significant corrosion/structural/annual issues. The engine had 300 hrs since rebuilt and I paid $9500 for it. Well worth the cost for A&P inspection and shipping to Honolulu (bought sight unseen) I thought. I do feel extremely fortunate, however.

The only thing less than desirable is the low flight time the last eight years of service. Runs great so far, still only 38.0 hours in my recently completed RV-6A, and burns maybe 1 qt every 30 hours...knock on wood!
 
DC YXer said:
http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/home.htm

Haven't used them myself (yet) but on the whole it's my understanding they have a pretty good reputation.
Click to expand...

I wish I could say good things about Wentworth...but the engine he sold me was grossly misrepresented. He said it had all the accessories, it didn't. He said it was "just like an -A1A", it wasn't. I've thought about converting it to constant speed, but now I've found out it can't be done. I had to remove the accessory case and make some changes. I had to get a fuel pump, no problem, he sent me one. It had metal in it. I had to replace the ring gear/flywheel. The cylinder fins at the base are 1/4" undersize, so I had to remake the baffle kit to fit. I had to adapt it for a vacuum pump. He also said he had a couple of recent salvaged Garmin 430's, and he'd give me a good price for one. (Almost retail sound good for salvaged radios?)

I'd go with one of the other outfits mentioned in these posts.

Jeff
 
Its perfect, only driven on Sundays by a little old lady pilot.

jhallrv4 said:
I wish I could say good things about Wentworth...but the engine he sold me was grossly misrepresented.
Jeff
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Jeff no direct comment about Wentworth, but if you buy sight unseen, the idea some salvage companies have of what airworthy is not what we have in mind. Even small parts like a nav light. It may come dented and like it sat in the bottom of a lake. They are definitely NOT into aesthetics.

As far as engines, they (in general, salvage yards) tend to ask a premium for what they have and think a little too highly of their inventory. However deals are to be had, but I would eye ball it and check it out in person. Don't know how they work it, but if they will hold with a refundable deposit and you have the means to have it checked out in person or buy an independent agent of yours, the better.

I got my engine from an owner of a light twin who had an accident. He had no insurance and so he parted it out. Although there was some possibility of prop strike, the engine was shut off. Turns out it was fine. I ended up with the whole firewall forward. I was able to sell the prop, generator, starter, exhaust, feathering prop Gov off for a chunk of change. The end price for the core was about $2000. I could have just used it as is, and it would have been fine, but since there was a question, I tore it down. Once you have it apart it makes sense to do many items required for an overhaul. Than you get to a point where, you might as well go a little further and do everything. That is what I did and it cost $6,000 plus some money for labor (A&P/AI Friend). I could have cheaped out but glad I did the full meal deal. G
 
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Engines and Wentworth

Well I guess I have a couple comments. I just spoke to Steve Wentworth a couple weeks ago. I found him to be honest, very knowledgeable, and to have a lot of good ideas. One thing I learned was that there is a STC to use -A1A's in Cessna's so the market is drying up quickly. (that translates to higher prices) Second, he had a number of engines that would work on the RV's (I was looking for an O-360). He politely walked me verbally through what he had and told me if any modifications would have to be made to make things work. All the engines had log books. He would not tell me what he expected to charge for an A3A that he was getting in until he saw it, made sure there was no damage, and measured the flange run out etc. I ultimately got an A4A from another source but only because Steve did not have anything in stock at that time. When you consider a new lycoming at $25,250 new from Vans, saving $9,000 or so will buy a lot of new accessories.

Paul
 
Hi SmokeyRay! I was wondering if you could tell me some more about your engine? What sold you on a rebuilt engine from an airboat engine builder besides the price? After considering a converted rotary engine in an effort to reduce cost I find your idea much more interesting!
 
I know that this may bring a hail storm of criticism, but I'm pretty tough, so I'll say it . . .

I don't understand why you would buy an engine from an airboat builder when the engine is what's keeping you in the air. Many of these builders use unairworthy parts, including major components. You should be aware of this when you buy an engine from any shop. Since the engines are experimental, the components don't have to meet airworthiness standards, and a lot of them don't. So, while you're getting an engine on the cheap, you may not have an engine worth flying.

We have a customer who purchased an experimental engine from a not-so-reputable shop for about $6,000 less than he could buy one from us. He had concerns and shipped the engine from overseas for us to do an inspection before he ever installed it on his plane. When we opened up the cases, the crankshaft was clearly marked as an unairworthy part. The engine had the wrong hardware, a bad fuel pump, corroded tappet bodies and a bad oil pressure valve. Because the engine was experimental, and the shop does not hold an Repair Station Certificate, the customer had no recourse through the FAA, and he spent more than he should have to get an airworthy engine.

I just think it's a big mistake. You're building your airplane to the highest possible standard, why wouldn't you want your engine to be built the same way?
 
There are no cheap Lycomings......... Even the new ones have problems,but they at least covered by some kind off warranty.
I bought an overhauled O-360 from a canadian builder who decided to go Subaru,he bought at Sun-Fun For 11K it was rebuild by an texan company
it was running for first 50 hours okay,except for massive oil leak in front seal,
at 50 hours it started loosing oil-pressure,took it apart,the crankcase was warped so the midle bearing was gone,since I took apart immedadly I only
needed a new crankcase??????? ended only slightly lower in price than a new from Vans!!!!!!
Lesson learned if you by a used one know the history for sure,dont listen to what seller says,if you dont ask, he wont tell,he is trying to make a buck or two.
have a AP mechanic help you find an engine from a flying school airplane or
a plane that flies a lot (no corrosion) fill it up with cheap oil until you want to use it,have the same AP help you rebuild it when time is.
Remember that engine is the only thing that keeps you airborne,RVs are not good sailplanes!!!!!!!!!

j?rn m?ller
RV8 210 hours
 
Ok, the issue here is a safe reliable engine. I am an A&P and would never use unapproved parts in a cert. engine on a cert. aircraft. We are building and flying experimental aircraft. The RV have proven to be safe and reliable if built and flown properly. There are thousands of experimental engines out there operating safely every day. But that doesn't mean everyone want's one! I want to know what made an F-16 and airline pilot like SmokeyRay go with his airboat engine. What did he see that made him feel like he could trust that engine, that shop, those parts? If nobody experimented we wouldn't have RV's! But I hartily agree with the statements above. You can't just buy because it's cheap. Safety comes first.


Brad
 
copterdoc said:
Ok, the issue here is a safe reliable engine. I am an A&P and would never use unapproved parts in a cert. engine on a cert. aircraft. We are building and flying experimental aircraft.
Brad
Click to expand...

Just a side note, I'll relay my experience with name and particulars when I finish with my engine purchase. I too looked at new, clone, salvage, basement built.........you get the picture. I ended up with this deal: case back from being sent off, standard crank, new ECI cyls, pistons......all the way to the 7666 prop......unassembled bought from an individual who makes his money off bringing all the parts "together". I wasn't willing to fork over the price of a new clone but was just as unwilling to buy an engine from a basement builder whose comments were always......"just like certified but not", it's been buillt in Romania, they do great work, without knowing what the insides looked like. Unassemble but accumulated by someone who knows what to bring together solved (hopefully) my engine purchase. Two more weeks should tell the story.

Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7, "Black Magic"
http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html
 
Hi Dana! I grew up in Lexington. Currently in Alabama. Good luck with the engine and keep us informed! I noticed a link on you web page for SERFI 2004. Were you there too?

Brad
 
copterdoc said:
Hi Dana! I grew up in Lexington. Currently in Alabama. Good luck with the engine and keep us informed! I noticed a link on you web page for SERFI 2004. Were you there too?

I'll let the group know how the engine goes. Could be a nice "out" for others.

Brad
Click to expand...

I went along with TeamRV. I just threw a few inroute pics up under the SERFI link. Great little airport north of Atlanta where we met up with KAHUNA.

Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7, "Black Magic"
http://rvflying.tripod.com
 
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