Shaping LEAD

Question...How have people shaped the lead counterweights on the elevators? What tools did you use to carve it to shape...and how did you avoid the LEAD hazard of the small particles, dust created by such shaping?
I got enough lead paint as a kid thanks!

I used my drill press to drill a hole at the inside corner of the cutout. Then I clamped it in a vice and finished off the cut with a stiff backed wood saw. For small tweaking and cleaning up, I used a vixen file and a flat file. I'm not suggesting this is the "best" way, but it's what worked for me.

Why, back in my day (1999) we poured them right into the elevator and in the process melted a big section of my kitchen floor. To trim them I used a hand held disc sander and rasp. You might check with auto body supply shops as some of the old timers still use lead instead of bondo. Regarding the dust, I wore a mask.

I poured my -4 counterweights in place, but when I've had to shape lead, the Vixen (body file) worked great, and no dust.

Jeff

I used a myriad of tools - cut off disks, belt sander, hammer, hack saw, etc. It was a pain. I think I ruined a lot of tools on those things. Of everything I tried, a A belt sander did the best job, but they got HOT. I kept a bucket of water near by and worked on them in alternates. They turned out great. Good luck.

Milling machine at work

If I remember...

It's been a couple/few years but I believe I used a hacksaw to get the major cuts/material removed and then to radius the inside corner(and I don't know how I came up with this) but I used a 1/2" drill bit like a file and grabbed it by the tip and pulled it towards me(the machinists term is "draw filing") and it worked great! Got a real nice radius on the lead. Now I just have to finish the airplane and see what other adjustments are required after painting.

Dont lead and ally have a galvanic action? Why is this not an isue? I would have guessed lthere would be a corrosion issue with the VANS approach but it appears not, particularly the -4 approach where you pour the molten lead directly onto the ally. Anyone explain?

Thanks, Steve.

Lead weights

Hi,
Im not sure wich RV your building, however I used a process on my -4 that worked real nice. I made a "female" mold from 1/2 pine by simply cutting out a profile the same as the rib shape and nailing it to another flat piece. Then mount your elevator on the stabilizer,and use a baggie to fill up with lead shot from a gun supply store, until your elevator levels out,placing the bag of shot in the same position as the weight.A bit "nose heavy "will compensate for the paint...kind of a guess there unless you want to do a lot of math.Now, take the baggie,and place it in the mould pushing tightly into the end to establish the placing of the "dam" in the rib mould.Another little piece of wood is now tacked in as the dam.I lined the mould with aluminum foil pushed into the corners, melted the shot in an old coffee can (throw in a little extra) and poured it in the moulds.After they cool, they will pull right out,drill a couple csk holes through them,counter bore the backside if needed,and a couple coats of primer on the whole deal..wa la..perfect,sealed weights...I know this is a long post..took a couple hours to do the real thing.
Happy melting,
Bill..RV-4

Steve Sampson said:

Dont lead and ally have a galvanic action? Why is this not an isue? I would have guessed lthere would be a corrosion issue with the VANS approach but it appears not, particularly the -4 approach where you pour the molten lead directly onto the ally. Anyone explain?

Thanks, Steve.

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If I look in my big'ole trusty engineering reference, I see that lead has an anodic index of .7, and 2024 aluminum is .75. That's pretty darn close, and I wouldn't expect any significant corrosion there. Maybe if you threw it in the ocean

As a reference, 6000 series aluminum has an index of .9, so you may want to give all those non-alcad angles and doublers a little extra primer where they meet the alcad to be sure you have good coverage.

I used a Grizzly small band saw for most of the cutting and it worked great. Just set speed fairly slow and feed the lead through slow.

John - well your " big'ole trusty engineering reference" has earned its money today. I had seen in the Cleveland Tool centre spread of useful info, that lead and ally do not cohabit, and was puzzling that VANS advise on the -4 to pour the molten lead directly onto the ally. You have put my mind at rest.

Not sure the primer will still be there after the molten lead drops on it though! I'll just remember never to land on the ocean.

Thanks, Steve.

Here is what I tried and here is what worked

I tried a belt sander, hacksaw, vixen file, bandsaw and was not happy with any of them.

The tools just seem to load up and get bogged down. I also was thinking it was crazy putting little particles of lead in the air even though I was wearing a respirator.

As long as we are talking about the pressed lead foil that Vans uses, a wood chisel works great. Don't try taking off large chunks with a single cut, rather shave off slivers. You can make quick work of it, you have infinite control and the cuts look dressed.

The pressed weighs are very soft and you can actually shave the weight by putting your weight into it rather than using a hammer, if you like. I was amazed that it did not even trash the chisel. Good luck.

Lead is inert in the metallic form- it is only dangerous when ingested or inhaled as a vapor. The particles from sanding, etc are not a problem unless you somehow get them into a sandwich or coffee cup...

Id suggest caution if you work around melted lead, particularly if you melt it with a flame (like when soldering copper pipe)- the vapors can be very toxic. I doubt a respirator will help much unless you happen to have the correct filter.

Handsaw and chisel

I tried some methods, but in the end a (wood-) hand saw and a chisel-and-hammer combi worked the most efficient. Put the lead in a vise and take off small chips at the time. I know this method works best because I had to do it TWICE after a small drawing-reading mistake one early Sunday morning!

Lead is inert in the metallic form- it is only dangerous when ingested or inhaled as a vapor. The particles from sanding, etc are not a problem unless you somehow get them into a sandwich or coffee cup...

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What's the difference between ingesting and breathing in some particles (there will be some airborn particles when using a belt sander)? Either way the stuff is inside you

I believe the answer is that the lead molecules need to get into the blood stream and migrate to your brain to do the damage. Your digestive acids can dissolve lead to the molecular level where it can enter your blood stream, while your nose cannot (it filters out larger particles and expels them by coughing/snotballs), unless the particles are already in gasseous/vapor form that can cross the tissue/blood barrier in your lungs.