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It's time for Glass

plehrke

Well Known Member
Patron
When I started to build my RV-6A back in 1997 I decided that a good 6-pack of steam gauges were relatively inexpensive, reliable, easy to install, and companies had been around since the Wright Brothers. Glass was new, no clear indications the companies would be around for service, and as a aero/mechanical engineer, glass had way too much electrical stuff to learn about (I shy away from electronics like other do fiberglass). My flying is VFR with limited cross country so I have never needed anything fancy. With the advent of the iPad, I added glass on my knee with all the great charts and ADS-B weather and traffic. Now after 8 years of building and 10 years of flying I have seen the light of glass.

Below is a picture of my panel. I still like it and would not even be thinking of changing except items have begun to fail (vacuum pump and flight data recorder) and maybe instead of repairing/replacing, it is finaly time to upgrade.
JYEYF9mjGcGHSjL8Wr266IL9tACnzI-2fXv3PPtXuabd2HmcZpjQ8jTu7aaROXpwzct0-gKC_xCT4zr-sn2h967Ztp0s5XacpnqugA6xQH5NcXDhtDo6nqi63kc71f6DI6-h3th_YdJhW_a6GsgDZrM23WbpC7vVtznn50vTkuz5CNU1RQCBplFXRorHGOyK3kT7odLXYig1N-YXOV5AWlx3j-i9wOEE0MY8v4s-xBTvKwM-4_0SXY5n1pufc0bDxILucv6FdHiFEKl1qWlwohgOb0EY20kM9hqeR1nqsamsDx0oyLKkoWhQ_15qPKNsK-GSW6wA5NvpjRip8Dklx3KUN1M-cvQ2JkeSsJe0zV_rYABY6iRJhWZWM_4CisaTLoSZq4AssTp-viqCNwGDectGb1AWIP6IyJEUoA34gNR-x-9_ceoGaF9A2-WnZfFNCrRX136ZBmQdNYQ8wEM_aazr7q4QYTf0ij8coSKQwc04spkUyJpGNNmFRRTAoqQRi5Hpc75rSzN1WIxEItJ6G9EmpgM7TXeGH-bCbtOEB9MPlM2cD5QudBs2p9lbW1ZzGZK6fwNVPhQLwXPC9rpBg9TlXulzdjaynVM3yddvZBKECfxj=w800-no

The only "advanced" item on the panel is the Flight Performance Recorder from Pegasus Technology (just to the left of the breaker sub-panel). I love that thing as is collects (or calculates), displays, and records:
- airspeed (IAS, CAS, TAS, ground speed)
- Altitude (Pressure and density)
- course
- Manifold Pressure
- RPM
- % Horsepower
- fuel flow, fuel used
- Date and time
- Lat and Long
- OAT
- Gs
The software that came with it was great to create all my perfomance plots and playback flights. Unfortunately the recorder finally died last week. Pegasus Tech sort of dropped off the experimental scene 3 years before I flew (13 years ago) so no one around to help trouble shoot the unit.
Also, yesterday my vacuum pump quit working so the artificial horizon and directional gyro are in-operative.

What I would want is something that fits into the spot of the Artificial Horizon and directional gyro and provided typical EFIS functions. Not looking at doing an entire new panel, just plug some glass in spots of current instruments. Aspen appears to be the only one I have found that fits that form factor but they are pretty pricey as they only have stuff that is certified. I would like something for the experimental market that is not quit so pricey. The Dynon D10A also would fit where a single gyro was removed.
The other requirement I have is that I would like to have the EFIS record my flight including most of the parameters I listed above. In the online literture I have not found what parameters any of the EFIS may record and are able to download to my computer for plotting.

I would appreciate any recommendation for options to give me some glass and data recording capability without redoing my entire panel.
 
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A G5 is a nice little efis that fits in a 3" hole and is very reasonably priced. A Dyno D-10A EFIS and D-10 Engine Mo it or would also fit the bill nicely. I'm not sure if they log air data, but I'm pretty sure the EMS logs engine data (although it's a little cumbersome to download). I think a pair of Dynons would fit the bill very nicely and you could add a fairly functional auto pilot to the mix very inexpensively.

I wouldn't even consider an Aspen unless you can get a very cheap used one, but that is unlikely. I think the Dynon is more dependable and feature-rich.
 
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Another thought is to get a Dynon D-180 and replace the whole mini panel that has your six-pack. That is a nice screen and gives battery backup for the Engine Monitor as well. That would be really easy to do.
 
glass upgrade - go big!

I realize each situation is different, ASF, but I might replace the entire six-pack sub-panel with as large a screen as possible. There is so much information available from modern glass, most of it benefiting VFR flight. Traffic, NexRad, charts, graphic engine monitoring, HSI, and EFIS.... Lots of stuff to see...

Eventually middle-age eyesight catches up with most of us. A larger display makes it easier/faster to read and understand the info that you need at that second. Last winter I pulled out the last two round instruments and plugged in a second 10 inch SkyView. Maybe not perfect. Maybe not as good as somebody else's, but pretty wonderful for my needs.

As a redundancy back-up to the EFIS, I added a Dynon D2 on a strip of Velcro, covers most failure modes, except loss of satellite constellation. A truly remarkable little ace in the hole.

Let us know how it goes!

- Roger
 
The GRT Mini-X with engine monitor option would fill the bill nicely, although it's hard to tell if it will fit between your steam gauges. This would necessitate the installation of a GRT EIS4000 and probes, but would give you all the recorded data you're looking for, plus a very bright, easy to use EFIS that will give you magnetic heading information (the Garmin G5 won't give you that magnetic heading info unless you purchase a significant stack of additional equipment).

I would agree with the recommendation to replace your 6-pack sub panel with bigger glass. When I started out with my "flying" airplane I had the same mission as you have so I installed a Dynon D100 along with "steam" ASI, ALT, VSI and T&B. Were I to do it all over again, I would ditch the steam gauges entirely and go for bigger glass. Or stick with similar size of glass and install a second EFIS. I really like the panel in our new airplane that has both a big EFIS and a small one. The small one can stay configured as a Primary Flight Display while the big one can do all the fancy mapping functions on a screen that's big enough to allow aging eyes to actually see the info being presented. It's a complete win-win, with nary a steam gauge in sight. Experimental glass seems to have reached a point of demonstrated reliability that is well above the vacuum/steam gauges you are replacing. Or at least this has been my experience. There's no EFIS that fails every 400 or 500 hours like a vacuum pump does!
 
Great points made above. Once you get something like a D180 installed and flying, you likely wish you'd gone with a larger screen, auto-pilot, etc. It is difficult to stop once you choose the EFIS direction. Budget is the primary limiting factor, IMO.

ADS-B for the 2020 mandate should also be part of the decision making process.
 
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You can try a small EFIS for a while, then when you're ready for a project, you can go with a clean-sheet panel design and a big EFIS of your favorite brand. Whatever mini EFIS you go with now can be used as a backup in your final panel design-- it doesn't even have to be the same brand as the big one.

Don't forget GRT's Mini-GA, which clips into a 3-1/8" round hole and has many more features than the little Dynon. http://grtavionics.com/mini-ga.html
 
I guess I'm a half-glass guy. (please don't overlook the G and L)

In your setup I would do the Dynon D-10A where your Attitude Indicator is and move on with life. You'll have a very nicely backed up EFIS and for a little more (two servos, some wire, and some time) you can have two-axis autopilot.

It's a plug in way to give you some more of what you want with no impact on what you've bought!
 
Dynon D10A & D10

I put a D10A in place of the attitude indicator and a D10 EMS on the right side - it could go in your Pegasus hole. You can then put either display on whichever screen you like. I monitor engine instruments on taxi with the EMS display an the left screen - works well for CHT monitoring on climbout also. The D10 can function as an EFIS for the person in the right seat. You'll get everything you got from the Pegasus except Lat and Long. The data is downloadable for review and can be analysed by Savvy Analysis if you like. These units are often available used. I'm quite happy with this setup, and my aging eyes still have the big needles on the airspeed, altimeter, and vertical speed instruments. Can send a panel picture by email if you like.

Cheers, David
RV-6A KBTF
 
Phil, I'm kind of doing the same as you as an interim panel until I complete my full panel upgrade. When my vacuum pump died I removed the vacuum system and installed my GRT Mini AP with magnetometer, GPS module, and roll & pitch servos. I already had the GRT EIS. I am just across the river from you at ALN and would be happy to let you observe this setup in flight if you want. Just PM me and we'll get it done. I am amazed at the capability of this system. It may not be the cheapest alternative but it is great bang for the buck.
Don
 
Flying with G5s

Installed 2 G5s on my panel. I think they're great. I use one as an AH replacement and the other as a DG....actually us it as an HSI, connected to a Garmin Aera 660.

You can see pics at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/148189365@N07/

I have a thread called 'Solution to the vacuum system'. I looked at GRT Mini and the AvMap but I'm glad I went with the Garmin units!
 
You may also want to look at XFS (xfs.aero). This is new approach electronics flight instrumentation. The basic premise is to separate the hardware and software aspects of the business and allow multiple parties to contribute to the software and hardware. You could use the comparison of traditional avionics being like Apple where they control the hardware and operating system. XFS is more similar to Andriod where there can be multiple hardware manufacturers. The software is available to be modified and therefore is more conducive to innovation.

XFS is still fairly new. I believe I have the only RV with it installed. They are taking applications for beta testers at the moment. You can potentially get pretty large discounts on new glass, but would also have to deal with some of the growing pains of a new platform. On the other side, you get to help shape the platform.

One of the nice things about XFS is you can easily modify the equipment. My monitor does not go through my panel, so I could put a large screen exactly where I wanted it without cutting the longitudinal supports behind the instrument panel.

I'm deployed right now so this was the best picture of my panel I find. This was during installation and everything was not quite setup.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/G3mKusVppWgT1dP_shIpB2E2_QaX7k2TaB_lTTWqjF_EyXFEm-fjJPlgwytAm4pRecsNzyeDGbjoMNTVD4v4V9poKq3xwWwNQwDjuOMa-stvpqHDUE2hUwRkDhAOCSFV0aZaRtgaxe3uOdJcGnJ9szBAlNTeakJFCdclXmAaBP6Jkpz6GExsR8NOFmqFkfc7bkDqZMxTyZmKH8Fx35hKEBdpMuSRUwECI_F7Guz6Gk5uppAJ11suurAdIJYztihQvxJa27OyRMKedudRHu783kaQF5kGWIdvEfGKdxVgFChDL7Y-5v3CeLGdqIEaz8c9zkeNX-up2RyhybPM12q35QLPHM8hpazLyEKRD12TVr6mW83RUAcIaS5u4TLBhHVITYMfqqCOQN6MQPCAs6t-jTcMvZTgpRbVdx3VDxD3I18OQS_ASjKwTlviVCDeCqhyK_8HBbfIWI4B4IkE-6orZCX5G7dF7uMxKJyOaDG1unNqH4oP847I1bS_CuQiEtJ1lAZjZiAiZCVrDdVa_7TrnM0xWIHv9Cnp8CoBxWNj_NbYXpJK-NockKiEwCJDuFMgG70oXW1DyIR1_mcHIXBsugeX2GrxZJ8k1-htNUHJxVtlUNWl=w741-h556-no


-Brian
 
You may also want to look at XFS (xfs.aero).

This is interesting, but your panel is not like your iphone - if your phone hangs, its annoying. If your panel hangs, youre up sh*t creek bad. Maybe this already happens with the garmins, dynons etal, IDK - I'm still building. But I have a basic trust that they've "wrung" things out well. If that's not a safe assumption, then I guess I'll still have basic steam in my panel......
 
This is interesting, but your panel is not like your iphone - if your phone hangs, its annoying. If your panel hangs, youre up sh*t creek bad. Maybe this already happens with the garmins, dynons etal, IDK - I'm still building. But I have a basic trust that they've "wrung" things out well. If that's not a safe assumption, then I guess I'll still have basic steam in my panel......

I'd say this depends purely on what you're doing with your aircraft. IMC, sure, having your panel go BSOD would be a bad day. If you're VMC, meh, just reboot the units and try again.
 
FWIW These are the steps I used when I converted from "steam" to "glass" back in 2013.

1) Select the brand of equipment you will use. One of the most, if not the most, important factor should be company longevity. You don't want to get stuck with an orphan EFIS. Now, don't get caught up in what features are available today as that changes incredibly fast.

2) Replace your current AI with a small EFIS like the Dynon D6, Garmin G5 etc. For now keep the rest of your "steam" gauges. Fly this configuration until you are comfortable reading the different presentation of flight information on the small EFIS. An added bonus is that this makes for excellent "partial panel practice" as you migrate from reading "steam" to reading "glass".

3) Make your final decision(s). You can now install your existing small EFIS as the backup device since you are already comfortable using.

YMMV

:cool:
 
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