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Have to be "Sharpies"?

H

HighSchoolBuilders

Well Known Member
Hi all,

A builder visited my project today, notice I wasn't using "Sharpie" Brand markers. He advice I stop using "non-Sharpie" because other brand might have ingredients that damages metal. He also advice to scrub away any markings I made with the non-Sharpies and spot prime those spots.

He built his 7 years ago and I wonder if anyone heard similar information. I honestly never heard of it before, at one point, I did consider import some Sharpies as they don't sell them here in Hong Kong, but I thought about it at the time and couldn't see what harm can it do by using a different brand.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
Hank
 
Sounds like utter nonsens to me. The only thing that can damage metal is some corrosive agent or graphite. Markers are made to be safe to be eaten by babies, surely they are safe to use on aluminium.
 
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HighSchoolBuilders said:
A builder visited my project today, notice I wasn't using "Sharpie" Brand markers. He advice I stop using "non-Sharpie" because other brand might have ingredients that damages metal. He also advice to scrub away any markings I made with the non-Sharpies and spot prime those spots.
Click to expand...

That's probably a bit too paranoid. But... Consider that other similar pens are likely to be ok, but we have many years of experience with Sharpies, so we know them to be ok. If you can, find a type of pen that's available that others have used with no ill effects. Otherwise, you are doing a chemistry experiment.

SvingenB said:
Sounds like utter nonsens to me. The only thing that can damage metal is some corrosive agent or graphite. Markers are made to be safe to be eaten by babies, surely they are safe to use on aluminium.
Click to expand...

Indeed, graphite, metals, or non-neutral pH would be the main concerns with pen ink on aluminum. Not necessarily the same concerns for a baby's digestive system. Many foods we eat have non-neutral pH, i.e. are acidic or basic, and while they're safe for us to eat, they will easily corrode aluminum. You would be wise to keep the orange juice away from your airplane, and keep your kid from eating the Sharpie! Incidentally, while not advised, junior will also tolerate graphite better than your airplane will.
 
Metal contaminates

Ummm.... I didn't realize graphite was an "issue" on Al??? Metallurgically, how so? I know there are issues with ink marker pens relative to chlorides, which are prohibited for high strength applications of stainless steels, due to chloride stress corrosion cracking.
 
rv9av8tr said:
Ummm.... I didn't realize graphite was an "issue" on Al??? Metallurgically, how so? I know there are issues with ink marker pens relative to chlorides, which are prohibited for high strength applications of stainless steels, due to chloride stress corrosion cracking.
Click to expand...

There is a common fear of corrosion due to electrical differences between Al and graphite. It is the same idea that says carbon fiber composites against Al is bad, why you should have a layer of fiberglass over the carbon fiber.

there are some people that think it is an "old wives tale" i.e. unproven
 
I have used other brands although prefer blue sharpies - Van's training

I have used other brands although I prefer blue sharpies - Van's training. I wash the area with rubbing alcohol to remove the marking after it is no longer needed. Personally I would sweat the effects of paranoid cleaning more than the difference in chemical composition of the marker pen inks. The airplane was completed in 2004 but I continue to modify with aluminum and fiberglass for speed. No problems due to the use of other than Sharpie marker pens.

Bob Axsom
 
Usually if you look closely and read on the packaging it should say "Archive Safe." This is suppose to mean that the ink is Ph balanced and safe for delicate documents and what not. I'm sure its good enough for sheet metal.
 
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Sharpie or non sharpie shouldn't matter. This probably comes from the issue of chloride in the ink. The chloride will react with certain metals which can cause cracking over time. Typically you have to watch out for stainless and titanium used in high stress or high heat applications. Aluminum isn't one of those metals. Most sharpies have chloride in them. I haven't actualy found one in any color but black that is certified chloride free. If you wan't one that is chloride free the sharpie will usually state that it is T.E.C. certified right on the pen next to the name.

Keith
 
There is actually an ASTM spec D-4236 that outlines requirements for approved marking devices. Sharpies (and most other markers) are compliant to that spec. If you look on the sharpie in very small print it certifies compliance.

It has been some time since I read the spec, but I beleive that it does pertain to ink composition and absence of chlorides.

As far as damage to RV parts - I would say that there are about 10,000 things I would worry about before this one. Markings will bleed through primer though.
 
I like the fact the sharpy bleeds through primer as it makes it much easier to assemble things like wing ribs and most of this is hidden anyway.
 
OK - chemists out there....

Kmacht said:
Sharpie or non sharpie shouldn't matter. This probably comes from the issue of chloride in the ink. The chloride will react with certain metals which can cause cracking over time......

Keith
Click to expand...

Are any of the ingredients listed on the MSDS a chloride?

http://www.sharpie.com/img/compel/1q-GX-nv0DGRX5jtoz3LT1QylJ4LVmOr/SharpieUF.pdf

Or is chloride a part of the ingredient "dyes"?

The industrial Sharpies seem to have the same ingredient list minus the ethanol...
 
Van says okay

Thanks for all the responses. I e-mail Vans and they said most marker inks are okay on AL.

By the sound of this, i think I will leave it as is, and import some Sharpies for future markings.

Thanks!
 
OMG! Corrosive marker ink, chloride stress corrosion cracking....... Was this thread started April 1st??
 
Hank,
The issue relates to both Sharpie brand and other brands as well. The warning ONLY relates to the use of black colored markers, which contain carbon in the pigment. Use any other color [I like red, as it is the easiest for me to see in poor light] and you won't have any problems.
FYI, I contacted the makers of Sharpie markers. The would not give out what the chemical make up of the ink was. [trade secret]
If you used black, just make sure you clean it off with a solvent and a rag.
Charlie Kuss
PS I should state that I did use the Sharpie brand, so my comments regarding using other brands is just a guess.

HighSchoolBuilders said:
Hi all,

A builder visited my project today, notice I wasn't using "Sharpie" Brand markers. He advice I stop using "non-Sharpie" because other brand might have ingredients that damages metal. He also advice to scrub away any markings I made with the non-Sharpies and spot prime those spots.

He built his 7 years ago and I wonder if anyone heard similar information. I honestly never heard of it before, at one point, I did consider import some Sharpies as they don't sell them here in Hong Kong, but I thought about it at the time and couldn't see what harm can it do by using a different brand.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
Hank
Click to expand...
 
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Is it being suggested that this is a galvanic corrosion issue? If so, what's the electrolyte? Has this ever been observed? I have a very hard time believing a layer of ink a couple thousand molecules thick poses any noticable effect to the base metal, even with an electrolyte present.
 
chaskuss said:
The warning ONLY relates to the use of black colored markers, which contain carbon in the pigment.
Click to expand...

Black Sharpies are known to fade, something carbon doesn't do. Black ball-points and other pens do not use carbon, I doubt Sharpies do, either. But in any case, I seriously doubt this is a huge concern. Pencil, yes...don't use 'em, don't even have any in the shop. Sharpies? They're all over...black, red, green, blue. I just grab whatever is handy and use it.

If a part is getting primed or painted, then it needs to be cleaned, right? Which should remove any ink marks (like the blue metal dye from the factory, Sharpie marks, etc.). At least, MEK gets rid of that ****.

And if it's not, I'd wipe the marks off just for aesthetics, anyway, even if the part will never be seen again. With one exception...

I *did* sign the inside of the left wing :). With a black Sharpie. If that wing falls off, please tell my surviving family not to sue Faber-Castell, ok?
 
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