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Post Your SB 14-01-31 Repair Experience!

Mountain Time

Active Member
We've got 500+ posts in the thread regarding this SB, what people are finding upon inspection of their elevator front spar, what it all means, etc.

But how about a separate thread for people to post their own experience with installing the SB kit? I think it would be a great help to those who are contemplating doing this fix to an existing HS if there were reports/photos from those who have tackled the job in the field - what worked, what didn't, possible ideas on improvements to the tools or process to make things easier or ensure best results, etc. (no offense Van's or RVBuilder2002 - clearly a lot of thought went into the SB issuance, but you never know what tips and tricks others might come up with... :))

For the record, I found a crack on each side of the spar web, right where the SB indicates :( . Both disappear behind the rib flange and appear to be heading towards the top rivet for same. RV-6, ~400 hrs, O-360 and Hartzell CS, occasional grass and light aero, no relief notches in this slow build 1995 vintage tail.

Doug/mods, assuming we get some responses, may be worth making this a sticky?
 
Make sure to put the right side up, hard to tell just looking at it. Here is the edge distance from the top rivet holes on the R. I could not find a note on this subject. on the 8 yes, but not for the 7.

20140219_181919_zpsa2233e1e.jpg
 
Comments on the SB for the 6s/7s

I posted this on Bret's thread yesterday, but it's pertinent here, so -

I'm working on the SB on my yet-to-fly RV-7 (nice, because the tail feathers are not mounted!).

I found that Figure 6 for the RV-6/7 has the 3/8 and 1/2 marked in reverse from what the actual part is - just remove the hatched area between the notches as usual and you'll get the 1/2" there and the other edge is already 3/8". Also, I found that there is 3/8" between the doubler plates and the vertical spar attach plate - (so no issue as with the RV-8). And probably the biggest help so far is that I decided in Step 15 to additionally draw a vertical line through the center of the innermost holes which will line up with the holes already in the HS spar and mark 1/4" from the end of each "leg" and that will show in the last hole already in the HS spar as well. This really helped me fit the doubler properly. That's as far as I am so far. I hope this can be of some help to others.

Please let me know if I am wrong on any of this - I admit I have made a few mistakes along the way...:rolleyes:
 
Van's support answer

Heard back from Van's support today:

The doubler part that you cut in half has been connected on the opposite edges as it shows in the SB so the 3/8 and 1/2 measurement are reversed.

This refers to Figure 6 for RV-6/7 in the SB 14-01-31.
 
My experience on "The Fix"

These are some observations I have made during the SB for the stab. on my RV8.

1. Before you dismantle the tail, draw a felt tip line along the rudder front spar to the stab connection area. It will come in handy.
2. It took me about 2 hours to dismantle the tail.
3. It took about 1 1/2 hours to drill out the skin rivets. I actually spent a lot of time chipping paint off the rivet heads so as to center punch each rivet head. Be VERY careful if you use an exacto knife or blade to chip paint. A knife mark on the skin will now become a stress riser/crack. What others are doing, I do not know. Sanding would be an option.
4. Center punch each rivet head with a spring punch. The drill bit will want to wander. Use a new drill bit.
5. It took abt. 1 1/2 hours to drill out the interior/ upper-lower angle rivets. Do the interior/finger rivets first. Good News: You only have to drill out the heads of the interior (finger) rivets. ( I punched them, then drilled with a #40 to establish concentricity, and then drilled with #30. A few of the rivets had to be helped with a chisel, most of the heads came off easy with just drilling, but be careful with
the chisel blade.) When I tapped the rivets(the remaining shank) the whole finger started to come off, only being held on by the rivets in the center area.
Drill out the center rivets and the whole angle comes off. Then you work out the rivet shanks that are stuck in the angle fingers. Tapping with a nail and supported with a vise jaw. Takes all the difficulty out into the open.
6. Cutting the corners off with a dremel is not too difficult, but cleaning the edge and putting on a radius is difficult.
7. I always cleco the angles to the unit when moving it. It is weak. Be patient.
8. This is as far as I have gotten, will write more later.

If anyone has helpful-better additions, please add them.
I once made a mistake, could happen again.

Ed
 
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I have riveted the spar stiffners in today but when I cameto the prebent angles
The 4 new holes that would sit just inside the previous end flang to the ribs are lined up with where the angle would sit. If I put the angle on the inside of the rib it will work fine.
How did this happen.
My bend in the spar sits about 1/16 inch inside the relief radius. This bend could be situated and 1/8 inch one way or another depending how you did the bend.

With two sheet metal fellows sid to attich the angles on the outside of the rib will not cause a problem as the load to the rib and spar will be the same. I might have to put a slight curce in the angle to allow for the lightening hole in the one rib. The angle sits up on the lightening hole flange about a 1/16 inch.

This is the only situation
Do be careful when you draw your lines on the reinforcement plates and use a mirror to verify the lines are visible through the existing holes before you start drilling the reinforcement plate to the spar and clamp it good so it does not move. Cleco every hole you drill and re verify the lines are still present.

Keep your rivet gun solid on the new rivets especially the ones toward the ends of the spar stiffiners
Jack
 
SB complete

I completed my SB repair and test flew a couple of days ago. The job is not that difficult, but it did take a little longer than "Just a few Hours". It took me an hour and five minutes to disassemble the Doll's empennage. It took me several hours to put it back on!

I learned how to build metal airplanes building my HS, and I made the mistake of installing the #4 rivets from the front instead of following the rule of manufactured head on the thin material side. "I had a lot to learn then". I started my tail kit Sept. 22, 1997 and paid the price for that mistake all these years later. I had to drill off the rivet heads, and punch out the shanks in the small space forward of the spar. That was much more difficult, but I was able to do it without damaging any holes. Since there was no room to use a punch and hammer, I cut off the bottom of a #30 drill bit to use as a one inch punch. I took a 3/8 box end wrench and placed a 3/8 fiber lock nut in the box end. I wrapped it with electric tape to hold the nut in place. I used an ice pick to punched a hole through the tape, through the nut so I could place my one inch #30 drill bit bottom through the nut. With this tool I could reach up inside the HS and position it over the rivet shank. I used a (L) shaped bucking bar for the hammer.

Walt came by and saved me from another mistake prior to riveting the SB reinforcements on. He reminded me to check to see if the VS forward spar fit without interference from the SB kit. We placed the VS over the HS and inserted a couple of bolts to see if the VS spar hit the SB plates. It did! We traced the VS spar on to the HS with the SB doublers clecoed on. Then I removed and trimmed them before riveting. Thank you Walt! Be sure to trace your front VS spar onto the HS spar before removing your VS.

I had two very small cracks in the top side that were less than 1/8 inch in length. I feel confident in the structure now, and doubt there will be any more cracking in that area.

For the guys that reported no cracks after inspecting their aircraft, let me add: that I only found one crack during the original inspection. The second one was discovered after I had the entire thing dissembled. These cracks can be very hard to detect!
 
Finishing "The Fix"

Well, I put the last rivets in today, mounting to go. The general consensus of 20 hours seems to be very close.
The riveting was a "no worries" procedure. It will help one immensely if you have an offset rivet attachment. Mark has some good pictures of his riveting. It it easy in that the bucking bar lays flat, and the gun is near flat, so easy to to do by yourself. I did not have the securing spring, nor did I tape the attachment. Worked fine.
One note, before pulling out the angles to drill against the doubler as Mark did, I drilled the very last hole to maintain concentricity, and then pulled the unit out, and drilled the remaining holes on the drill press. When assembling for the riveting I only had to clean out one hole. All the others either slipped in or went in with gentle tapping.
As everyone has a slightly different dimensioning on their holes, pay attention to the layout of the "to be drilled holes" in regards to the "existing holes". It can get very very tight. I used different colored Sharpies to spot the hole onto the spar, and then removed the doubler to view the relationship of the holes. Took a couple of tries until I was satisfied.
There is one thread on this site somewhere that has a dozen pictures of their "Fix"procedure. Can not find it anymore. It was a lot of help however.

Cheers,
Ed
 
Finished the repair on my tail today and started reinstalling it, here some pics and info:

Here's with the ribs removed, spars drilled for doublers, new slots cut, and the upper/lower flanges cut off. ED was right at the limit on a few of the holes so be careful getting the doubler in the right spot.
RV-Horiz-repair-001a.jpg


Rear view.
RV-Horiz-repair-004a.jpg


Front view.
RV-Horiz-repair-007a.jpg


Doublers drilled up and primed.
RV-Horiz-repair-010a.jpg


Doublers installed. They also had to be trimmed a bit on the bottom to prevent them overhanging the edge.
RV-Horiz-repair-023a.jpg


RV-Horiz-repair-024a.jpg


Here you can see the .063 shims I had to make up to allow the ribs to sit even with/on top of the new row of rivets. I have an early 'pre' pre-drilled tail so things are not exactly like the way the the fully punched tails are.
RV-Horiz-repair-025a.jpg


Here's the ribs with the spacers above installed. Note that I put the angles on the IB side instead of the OB side like the SB calls out to clear the new rivets.
RV-Horiz-repair-029a.jpg


Front side.
RV-Horiz-repair-027a.jpg


Most of the stuff to do the job..
RV-Horiz-repair-031a.jpg
 
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Nice!

Great posts, everyone - glad to see photos of the project "in the flesh", so to speak. ;)

I've got my rivets all removed and the HS-610 flange trimmed, so progress is coming along albeit kind of slow. But out here in the Seattle area the WX has not been real conducive to VFR flying anyway, so I'm just takin' my time.... :rolleyes:
 
hey john
just had to comment on this "Seattle area the WX has not been real conducive to VFR flying"
i lived in everret for over a year and will say that it is very nice from about june to sept the rest of the year is just like you said bla bla bla.
i was working for boeing on the new plastic plane. it was great fun but got a better job offer back in michigan and came back here but weather here has really sucked this winter. i hope to move back to texas in a few years.
hope fully you will get better weather there soon.
 
Walt,

Thank you very much for the photos. I'm one of those "visual-spacial thinker" types and have been reading and re-reading the service bulletin. As a non-builder, I was not completely clear on what was being described.

Your photos really help fill in the picture for me.

I'll be getting "skilled" assistance when I perform the SB and I will definitely keep your post handy.

One question: we're you able to squeeze all of the rivets or did you need to buck some ? I only have a pneumatic squeezer at the moment.
 
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SB package ordered---even though the only wind my emp has seen was the air blowing through the hangar. I figured it was better to do it now than later. Walts post was great!
Tom
 
Thanks for the photos

Walt,

+1 thanks for the photos. I'm all clecoed up and ready to drill the holes around the outside of the bracket but wasn't too sure of myself. Your pictures really helped.

Chuck
 
Walt,

Thank you very much for the photos. I'm one of those "visual-spacial thinker" types and have been reading and re-reading the service bulletin. As a non-builder, I was not completely clear on what was being described.

One question: we're you able to squeeze all of the rivets or did you need to buck some ? I only have a pneumatic squeezer at the moment.

I was only able to squeeze the the rivets in the center with my 'C' squeeze, the rest I bucked with a Jiffy rivet gun and stubby off-set (no way to get in there with a standard gun and offset). If I had to do a bunch of them I would probably purchase an alligator sqeezer with a 9" jaw but kind of hard to justify the expense for only a few jobs.
 
the rest I bucked with a Jiffy rivet gun and stubby off-set (no way to get in there with a standard gun and offset).

On the two SB installs I have worked on, the rivets within the skin bays were driven with a standard 3X gun and off set river set with the mfr heads on the aft side. There was more than enough room.
 
On the two SB installs I have worked on, the rivets within the skin bays were driven with a standard 3X gun and off set river set with the mfr heads on the aft side. There was more than enough room.

Maybe my offset isn't the shortest available, I couldn't seem to get on them straight with my setup.
 
here is what I found today. notice the crack only goes as far as the paint line where the rib flange touches the spar web. the crach appears to not have even continued under the rib, much less to the rivet hole. so much for worrying that the crack went thru all the rivet holes!
 
SB 01-31-31 completed

I have finally completed the installation of the HS doubler plates. As a non-builder, it was a great experience. I bought the necessary tools, and as a back up, TWO SB kits (which were ultimately needed). I learned much more about riveting, even though I had taken the EAA sheet metal course, and became an expert at removing improperly installed rivets. I thank Chuck Wilson, of Hotel Whiskey aviation (builder of the Safer Air Extended Range fuel tanks), who coached me when I was struggling. Here are some of my observations:

1. I found the bolts for the rudder counterweight loose, and had to drill holes in the fairing to reach them. This I discovered when I was shaking some debris out to the rudder. As the aircraft ages, it appears that the lead weights "flow," loosening the bolts.
2. The use of the type of stand that John Thocker at Redline when working on Jerry "Widget" Morris's aircraft was invaluable. It neatly held the HS while the rivets are installed.
3. Inexperienced builders like me need an extra supply of rivets, as many mistakes were made, despite the EAA course,.
4. It is critical to get eight rivet holes that go between the angles located so that they can be bucked properly. It is very easy to get the holes too close to the top or bottom angle.
5. The information that was provided by VAF members was invaluable. I truly appreciate all those who went before who shared their experience.
6. It took me about 50 hours to complete the SB, reflecting my lower experience level. Several hours of that time were spent just looking, fitting, and studying how to do the SB. Obviously experienced people will do it in half the time that it took me.

Here are some photos of my project:



 
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good for you to tackle this project. looks as good as what I could do [rv-6a & rv8]. wow, that's a lot of red!
 
I finished the SB a few days ago, I had no real problems but I had easy access to the forward spar as it was out of the stabilizer.

For the RV-8 be aware that the new rivet hole that is drilled nearest the relief notches can leave you with very little edge distance in the spar itself. I've edited the image below to show what I'm talking about.

I spoke to Vans about mine, they weren't particularly concerned but nor were they giving any absolute assurances. I figure if it cracks it will relieve straight into that rivet hole but I'd recommend that you don't go crazy relieving those notches. Mine were exactly as per the drawing and I still wound up with this.


image.jpg
 
....Thank you Walt! Be sure to trace your front VS spar onto the HS spar before removing your VS.
Thank you Danny and Walt (and everyone else!) for the info! Especially that bit about clearing the VS spar. Good to hear and see the practical aspects of this issue with all the smoke clear.
 
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I think the doubler you put on takes the load for that part of the spar web, so the edge distance from the notch shouldn't matter since it is in the web that is being supported. ....least that's the way it seems to me....
 
GREAT Photos

I appreciate you detailing the work within photos. You saved me some time trying to figure out if there was something missing in the the SB explanation regarding the hole that was removed after trimming the spar flange. You just filled the skin hole with a rivets, nice. I am new to the RV. I am about 70% done and I was surprised with Van's lack of detail in the directions regarding this rivet hole. I am a mech with manufacturers experience, I thought the directions would most explicit. Is this the normal for Vans SB?? Again thanks for the input.
 
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