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Acronyms! YUK

rv7boy

rv7boy

Forum Peruser
Please guys, I use acronyms all the time at work. I don't mind reading a few well known aviation acronyms here in the forums, but unless you are sending code and only want one person to understand your post, please try to think of your audience. This will add value to our forums.

If I posted the following, how many would be interested in what I said?

"I departed DCU this morning and flew past the BFNP. Then I overflew IPC's mill and made a TNG at 9A4 where they have nice runways and a decent price for AvG. I plan to fly Saturday to SYI but I always look forward to the breakfasts at BGF. Some of the TVRVBG ate lunch yesterday at CMD. I usually try to do one or two ILS's or even a VOR-A into HSV if their Charlie is not too busy. That RAA tower has really been busy lately with all the RFC traffic."

Just re-read your posts before hitting that "Submit" button. If the average reader doesn't know your acronyms, maybe you shouldn't use them.

Rant off. :)
 
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Right on!

Don,

I too, would like for more folks to use words . Often I read a good story but do not know where it happened without looking up the airport Identifier.
Hicks airport T67' has a really good restaurant it is north of Fort Worth,TX.

Avery Tools and www.RVCentral are there too. Fly or drive in for a visit!
 
Hull,,

I agree too?

BTW we have a CFR 14 FAR 91 FLT 2 PBI & have 2 file SNWNRD RTS 2 get there, keeping DSPTH informed. Since we fly INTL as well we treat all flts the same. We follow ICAO regs, meaning on top of FAR 91 we also comply w/SMS, FRAT & SAFA Checks. The SNWBRD RTS take us on AR RTS so we must insure that we carry the appropriate RFTS and LFV. Once there we drive 2 BCA 2 RON @ a MAR we enjoy. But during XMAS we RON for longer & drive even farther 2 PMP & stay @ the BCH. Further making the RON worse our AC went AOG & we had 2 call a road MTX team pay OT & fix the TR. Keeping all informed CP, DO, DOM DSPTH and PAX. We pay for all with the AMEX
 
kinger said:
Hull,,

I agree too?

BTW we have a CFR 14 FAR 91 FLT 2 PBI & have 2 file SNWNRD RTS 2 get there, keeping DSPTH informed. Since we fly INTL as well we treat all flts the same. We follow ICAO regs, meaning on top of FAR 91 we also comply w/SMS, FRAT & SAFA Checks. The SNWBRD RTS take us on AR RTS so we must insure that we carry the appropriate RFTS and LFV. Once there we drive 2 BCA 2 RON @ a MAR we enjoy. But during ==XMAS we RON for longer & drive even farther 2 PMP & stay @ the BCH. Further making the RON worse our AC went AOG & we had 2 call a road MTX team pay OT & fix the TR. Keeping all informed CP, DO, DOM DSPTH and PAX. We pay for all with the AMEX
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:p:p YEP! +1

The trick is to write your post, then review it while considering that the reader may have NFC what you are talking about. You can review your post before you upload it. And if you see an error after you upload it, you can go back and edit it.

N=No. C=Clue. :rolleyes:
 
acronyms

I usually bail out of the thread if acronyms are not understood. I figure, I don't know the airport or I'm too much a pilot rookie to understand the astronaut language.
What really irritates me is how so many use their phone text language.
 
PCHunt said:
:p:p YEP! +1

The trick is to write your post, then review it while considering that the reader may have NFC what you are talking about. You can review your post before you upload it. And if you see an error after you upload it, you can go back and edit it.

N=No. C=Clue. :rolleyes:
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Thank you!!! I'm not an airline or corporate pilot, so I have pretty much zero clue where KABC or KZYX is located. And for those non pro pilots using code. Really?!

But... I do know where KBFE is located!!!
 
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In 1993, I was in Toulouse doing my A320 course.

They gave us a small book labelled TLA's

We asked what it was and they said it was a dictionary to understand the TLA's that would be used during the course and while flying the Airbus.

So................

On further questioning, they said - Oh, it means Three Letter Acronyms.

I gave up :cool:
 
A nice way of writing airport identifiers in VAF (oops Vans Air Force.com) is to do it like this -

"The ramp at the base of the tower at TUS has been closed."

Just write the TUS in your message, select it and hit the "globe with the chain link" icon...:)

-------------------

BTW, the TLAs come from the DOA...:)

NASA was the worse for this, but they required an acronym list at the end of the document

Appendix A

BTW - By The Way
TLA - see previous post
DOA - Department Of Acronyms - I'm convinced every big govt. or technical company has one...
NASA - National Air and Space Administration
 
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Acromyms...

Hi Mark

''In 1993, I was in Toulouse doing my A320 course.

They gave us a small book labelled TLA's''
-------------
I feel your pain, I've been through the same course and it hurts...26 Pages if my memory serve me right..:eek:

The Airbus is an airplane built by engineers to be flown by engineers...

Bruno
 
Common VAF Acronyms...

Okay, you've got a point, but perhaps this thread could be used in an informative manner. Here's a couple I use frequently:

IMHO - In my honest opinion
YMMV - Your mileage may vary
KPTR - Keep pounding those rivets!

Anybody else..?
 
Not that it's a big deal but some users use airport identifiers and don't list where they are from in their signature or join date/location information in the upper right hand corner. Like a previous poster, I usually just "move on". Something like "I had a great time at VNC Saturday" tells me nothing about location unless I'm motivated to look it up.

It's not that difficult to state: KVNC Venice, FL or something similar. At least the State. Readers would then have some idea of the location then.

Sorry for the rant but this one struck a chord....:D
 
In the print world, we'd never think of using just an identifier without putting the name of the airport first. Once we had introduced the acronym or identifier, we can use just that in the rest of the story.

I agree that when I start seeing unexplained acronyms in a post/story, I pretty much stop reading.
 
Good thread! News to me.

I'll plead guilty to using airport identifiers and acronyms. I thought brevity was the key on this communication medium, and I appreciate the feedback in this thread.

My tendency is to stop reading the long individual posts unless they are trip or problem reports, and pictures are a definite plus to keep my attention. To get more specific I'm lost when the engine is unusual or a NASA-style telemetry system is used to squeeze an extra 1/1000% fuel efficiency. We all have our priorities, and I like my pistons on the cool side.

So in Two Thousand Fourteen I resolve to try not to cut short or abbreviate my Vans Air Force postings. :D

Happy New Year my friends!

Carl
 
Gotta laugh

When I look to see where a VAF member lives in the heading and it is listed as KXXX! I admit that I am too lazy to look up KXXX though. Must not be local or I'd know it! Good enough - not.

VAF on the other hand - if you can't figure that one out, maybe you should just google it! Funny.
 
Years ago when I worked at JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) I was given a copy of the LAA (List of Acronyms and Abbreviations).
 
FAA
AOPA
EAA
NASA
GPS
ADS-B
VOR
DME
TSO
METAR
TAF
RV
VAF
MPH
KT
NM
ADAHRS
K(XXX), e.g., KBZN

No way I'm spelling out these (or similar) acronyms in every post, and I'll bet that none of you have ever done it here either, because you'd sound like a dork. (maybe you will now that I've dared you, but ...)

One of the basic tenants of communication is to understand your audience. We use acronyms and other complex language and concepts without further explanation, particularly in informal communications, when we expect our audience to be informed and understand the acronyms and concepts. If you expect your audience to understand them but explain them every time, the communication becomes cumbersome and awkward.

Formal communications and documentation are different by nature. Professionally, I deal with a lot of acronyms, and in signed correspondence and formal documentation, we spell out all acronyms and follow with the acronyms (e.g., Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)). This is mostly because we cannot always be sure the knowledge level of our audience.

However, VAF isn't formal communication and is an aviation-oriented audience, so I will happily use aviation-related acronyms and I suspect most of you will too. If you don't know what a specific acronym is, well, there's always that new invention called Google.

TODR
 
the_other_dougreeves said:
However, VAF isn't formal communication and is an aviation-oriented audience, so I will happily use aviation-related acronyms and I suspect most of you will too. If you don't know what a specific acronym is, well, there's always that new invention called Google.

TODR
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Doug - I have no objection to the use of well-known ACRONYMS. What doesn't work is the use of nothing but nav identifiers. Quick - does KANE mean anything to you without looking it up? How about KTVN?

It's no problem if folks want their posts understood by only their local friends. But if the intent of a post is to entertain, inform, advise...the post misses it mark if people give up because they don't want to look up the locations. Communication that doesn't communicate is kind of a waste of bandwidth.
 
Ironflight said:
Doug - I have no objection to the use of well-known ACRONYMS. What doesn't work is the use of nothing but nav identifiers. Quick - does KANE mean anything to you without looking it up? How about KTVN?

It's no problem if folks want their posts understood by only their local friends. But if the intent of a post is to entertain, inform, advise...the post misses it mark if people give up because they don't want to look up the locations. Communication that doesn't communicate is kind of a waste of bandwidth.
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Without context, no KANE means nothing to me; neither does KTVN. Acronyms rarely are used without context, other than a quiz (What does "ABCD" mean?). Google tells me one is an IACO identifier, and both are FCC identifiers. Time expended? 5 seconds each, less than typing these words. I'm not insulted that you used these acronyms, nor does it make me give up on your posts. Instead, I look at it as an opportunity to learn something, which is how I approach VAF every time I check in.

The issue, as I see it, is one of audience and context. I don't expect everyone on this forum (audience) to know where TA11 is (one of my more common fields in my logbook, "Texas Soaring Association Gliderport"), but I suspect most know where DFW is ("Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport"). So if I talk about departing TA11 to the north and getting clearance through the DFW Class B, one can probably conclude that TA11 is an airport that is somewhere close to and south of DFW using context. Googling "airnav TA11" takes 5 seconds and gives the correct result.

So, one can make educated guesses in creating informal communication in terms of when to use acronyms. It will not always be the correct level of detail or verbosity for everyone; this is one of the inherent problems in human communication. As with most things, there is a middle ground, and that requires the use of human judgement. Otherwise, we need a style guide for VAF, like we do in academic and scientific journals.

TODR (I'm going to continue to use this acronym)
 
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the_other_dougreeves said:
Without context, no KANE means nothing to me; neither does KTVN. Acronyms rarely are used without context, other than a quiz (What does "ABCD" mean?). Google tells me one is an IACO identifier, and both are FCC identifiers. Time expended? 5 seconds each, less than typing these words. I'm not insulted that you used these acronyms, nor does it make me give up on your posts. Instead, I look at it as an opportunity to learn something, which is how I approach VAF every time I check in.

The issue, as I see it, is one of audience and context. I don't expect everyone on this forum (audience) to know where TA11 is (one of my more common fields in my logbook, "Texas Soaring Association Gliderport"), but I suspect most know where DFW is ("Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport"). So if I talk about departing TA11 to the north and getting clearance through the DFW Class B, one can probably conclude that TA11 is an airport that is somewhere close to and south of DFW using context. Googling "airnav TA11" takes 5 seconds and gives the correct result.

So, one can make educated guesses in creating informal communication in terms of when to use acronyms. It will not always be the correct level of detail or verbosity for everyone; this is one of the inherent problems in human communication. As with most things, there is a middle ground, and that requires the use of human judgement. Otherwise, we need a style guide for VAF, like we do in academic and scientific journals.

TODR (I'm going to continue to use this acronym)
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I grew up in N Texas and got my private at Bourland Field, and there's no way I could tell you where TA11 is located, nor can I recall the identifier for Bourland - if it hasn't changed in the last 27 years. And as for those I have spent time with on a little more frequent basis here in SE Texas, two of the airports where I have kept planes have changed identifiers and/or names in the last 10 years. Point is, I can barely keep up with the names much less the codes. So, go ahead and use the codes and acronyms, and unfortunately you'll hobble your message before it's even posted.
 
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Value

If the readers of this thread would take "five seconds" to read my original post, you will find two principles embedded in that post:

1) using well known aviation acronyms (or identifiers, thanks, Paul)
and
2) adding value to these forums

My intent was not to stir controversy but rather to remind us all of the value of the words we use here.
 
Ironflight said:
In the print world, we'd never think of using just an identifier without putting the name of the airport first. Once we had introduced the acronym or identifier, we can use just that in the rest of the story.

I agree that when I start seeing unexplained acronyms in a post/story, I pretty much stop reading.
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Being a "newbie" in the world of learning to fly, I have to say a word about "the printed world" and this OBSESSIVE use of acronyms.

I can't tell you how ridiculous and almost comical it was to me that I have spent the last year reading articles in the AOPA and Sport Pilot magazines about the epic shortage of pilots and how to attract the new person (meanwhile using acronyms every other word).:confused:

I HAVE PERSONALLY (because I have strong desire to be a pilot) SPENT HOURS READING ARTICLES THAT COULD HAVE BEEN....OR DARE I SAY....SHOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO READ, BUT IN FACT WERE WAY HARDER TO COMPREHEND BECAUSE I HAD TO SPEND SO MUCH TIME TRYING THE FIND THE FIRST USE OF THE ACRONYM IN PRINT! RIDICULOUS :mad:

Here's what the pilot community needs to tell the new person coming in the this deal:

"You'll actually spend the first YEAR learning code language, and then your second year, after half way learning the code language, you can start to learn how to fly....if you don't throw your hands up in frustration of the ridiculous us of acronyms and walk away." :eek:

The article that comes to mind had 22 acronyms in the very first paragraph, I kid you not. AND it was an article about how to get new pilots started and grow the pilot community. Hilarious:D

ISMP so IDWMR --- I've said my piece so I'm done with my rant. See how silly that is!!! ;)
 
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Ironflight said:
Whew!! I guess I am safe.... :D:D
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I won't ask!!!

Though I have to say, I'm not about to look up every acronym I see on here, I do love this site. It has proven to be very helpful in my quest for becoming an aviator and future RV owner. :D
 
In college I studied to be a Pilot, A&P and an Engineer. Since graduating many years ago I've also been trained in business management and I have learn to accept the crazy amount of acronyms that I use on a daily bases. Some acronyms are identical but mean very different things depening on which "hat" I'm wearing that day. (pilot, mechanic, engineer, manager) If I didn't love aviation so much I would have given up long ago. I call it acronym h*ll.
 
Isn't it more efficient for one person to spend 5 seconds typing out the airport name than for 200 readers to spend 5 seconds each googling it? I write a lot in my profession and I find that I spend more time debating in my mind as to whether to use a TLA or not than it would take me to just spell it out.

I once heard a professional basketball coach state that it is the responsibility of the passer to complete a pass. I think the same is true when it comes to communication.
 
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