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  #21  
Old 08-24-2011, 08:24 PM
gasman gasman is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post

An alternative is to find a Lycoming mechanical fuel pump with upgraded seals and baffles to withstand alcohol. They are available. Greg Poe, the late air show performer flew on 100% ethanol. I am following that lead, his engine came from Ly-Con in California. If I can get such a pump at a reasonable cost, it would pay for itself quickly in lower fuel costs. (NOTE: Greg Poe died of a heart attack, not from using ethanol)
Just remove the mechanical fuel pump and run two electric fuel pumps. At under $50 each, run as many as it will take to feel good. If you are worried about your current dual electrical system, then another $20 will buy you a back-up battery (3x3x4" and 3.5#) that will run the pump for over four hours.

That fuel pump will go the way of the vacuum pump...........no longer needed.
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2011, 11:07 PM
Joe Parish Joe Parish is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
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There are several RV's out there that run on 100% ethonal. The Vanguard Squadron based out of Tea, South Dakota have four RV-3's. I met a gentleman this past weekend that also runs 100% ethonal in his RV-6A. He told me he has 600 hrs with out any issues. The Vanguards have been running it for I believe real close to twenty years. I spoke with the A&P that built some of the Vanguards planes and he believed that the seals and hoses produced in the last 20 years are all compatible with ethonal. You do need high compression pistons from my understanding which limits you to ethonal or 100LL. My .02 for what it is worth.
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  #23  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:21 AM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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At 100 MPH I am burning 3.5 gph or less. Gotta love the Rotax 912.
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  #24  
Old 08-25-2011, 06:35 AM
KeithR KeithR is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kansas City, MO
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David,
I enjoyed your post as well as the replies. I thought you might like this link to gas stations who sell gas without Ethanol.

http://pure-gas.org

Keith
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  #25  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:30 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
David,
I enjoyed your post as well as the replies. I thought you might like this link to gas stations who sell gas without Ethanol.

http://pure-gas.org

Keith
Keith,

Thanks. I've been there and its like a huge black out over eastern Missouri. Go west to Kingdom City and ethanol is available. In Springfield many stations proudly show 93 mogas "no ethanol" but not around here.
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  #26  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:34 AM
ty1295 ty1295 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jeffersonville, IN
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I find the ethanol debate very interesting.

Not airplane related per se, but I have been running for 2 years now e85 in my automotive "toy". So far I love it. Have not seen any issues I can blame on e85 yet, fuel injected fuel rails are aluminum, weldon fuel pump, rubber lines, etc. I did see some black buildup where the injector spray pattern hits the intake manifold. Not sure its e85 related though.

The nice thing is the 110 octane which I would think the planes would also enjoy.

In my process of running it I have seen a LOT of speculation by people that have no first hand experience. Granted if your engine stops in a plane its a bit more concern than if it should stop in my car.
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  #27  
Old 08-25-2011, 08:38 AM
David Paule David Paule is online now
 
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Location: Boulder, CO
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Getting back to fuel consumption, does anyone have a GPH for flying level at climb speed?

Thanks!

Dave
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  #28  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:05 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrongway john View Post
David, thanks for getting those numbers for us. Im always interested in efficiency. Do you remember the rpmss for any of those settings?
John,

Here are the rpm numbers added plus a 3 GPH line.

7 GPH = 130 KTAS = 149.6 MPH = 21.40 MPG = 2180 RPM
6 GPH = 124 KTAS = 142.7 MPH = 23.80 MPG = 2090 RPM
5 GPH = 117 KTAS = 134.6 MPH = 26.90 MPG = 1930 RPM
4 GPH = 100 KTAS = 115.0 MPH = 28.70 MPG = 1740 RPM
3 GPH = 78 KTAS = 89.7 MPH = 29.9 MPG = 1590 RPM

One of the guys in our geezer lunch group is a retired Navy flight test pilot and we talked about min L/D which is max endurance and from that point on a graph, determining best range. He showed how they would extend a line from the left bottom corner of the graph to where it touched the curve coming down as speed is reduced to the bottom of curve (min L/D). The point where the line touches the curve coming down represents best range. In most cases it is just a bit above min L/D.

At 3 GPH, this airplane is very near the bottom of the curve. At one point speed bled off and I thought I would have to add power but it came back, it probably was caused by the unsettled air. I should have tried 2.5 GPH but it was getting time to talk to SUS tower. Next time I will see if this thing will fly at 2.5 GPH.

My opinion on max endurance and max range is that they are a function of angle of attack. When the weight of any aircraft changes as fuel is burned off, these speeds are less than at the starting weight. Fuel flow and speed are the variables, AOA is the constant.
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  #29  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:13 PM
49clipper 49clipper is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Belleville
Posts: 251
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David,
I took my rv-6 to Paducah on Teusday for some wiring issues and followed my neighbor down in his C-177B. To follow, I had to throttle back to 1900rpm and was only burning between 4.4 and 4.8gph. We were doing about 124mph at that power setting. I leaned it moderatly at 5500'. Nice and cheap. Took forever to get there though. Your numbers are close to mine. I have a O-320-D1A though w/Sensenich.
Jim
N189EM
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  #30  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:40 PM
JDRhodes JDRhodes is offline
 
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Location: Taylorsville, GA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49clipper View Post
Took forever to get there though.
It's all relative. If you owned a fixed-gear Cessna 177, it would seem about right.
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