Question about preparing the Maiden?

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by AirbusPilot

My big problem is that I have never land a plane on wheels, I have just performed 3 point landing .............
Please advise Maiden is coming soon

You need to be *fully tailwheel competent* before attempting a first flight alone in your -8. Wheel landings, 3 pt, short field, crosswind, botched landing go arounds, bounced landings with no power added, etc, etc. Not that you'll need to be able to handle all those scenarios for the first few flights - but you might, and it'll raise your overall level of competence with a conventional gear light airplane. Your instructors did you no favor steering you clear of wheel landings.

Get in that PA-18 and go do some one-wheel touch and gos in a crosswind. Practice cross controlling the plane and making it fly (roll) down the runway on one wheel for 30 seconds or so. Then lift off and fly it down the runway on the other wheel. That'll be a start.

[Ironflight]

Fernando -

I am afraid that I have to agree with Bryan completely - if you are not 100% comfortable with all types of landings you could get in to with a taildragger (or a nose-dragger for that matter, if that's what you're flying), then doing a "First Flight" might not be a good idea. I made the first flight in my RV-8 without ever having flown an -8 before, but I had three decades of tailwheel flying, and many different types of airplane in my logbook.

I know from your writings here that you are a high-time pilot, but if you haven't been exposed to, and gotten competent in, ALL the various ways in which a taildragger can arrive on the ground, then I'd suggest getting some more practice with wheel landings or see if someone else can make the first flight. I know that would be a tough choice, but it is a beautiful airplane, and you'd hate to damage years of great work just to make an arbitrary date for a flight.

I know there are many folks that will rationalize that you should just go and three-point it, but I can tell you that landing an -8 three-point is actually more difficult than wheel-landing it, because it is NOT done flying in the three-point attitude. You have to three-wheel it on.

Paul

[dedgemon]

Fernando,
I just recently did my first flight in the 8. My eight is equipped very much like yours, weighs almost the same, same engine etc... I also went and flew with Alex so I think I can make a few informed comments. I've also got about 400 hours of RV time in 9's and minimal taildragger experience.

1. Alex teaches ONLY 3 points in the 7. I had to force him to SHOW ME a wheel landing and he really didn't want too. I also had to force him to show me stalls. I highly recommend doing a couple of stalls on you're first flight so that you can be confident with your airspeed choice.

2. You really need to get a taildragger instructor to get you comfortable with wheel landings because that's the way that you're going to want to land the 8 most of the time. It behaves really well in wheel landings. 3 points are okay too but a bit tougher to get just right.

3. Alex teachs you to approach WAY TOO FAST. (IMHO) All RV's need to slow down too land well. If you force the landing at higher speeds they'll start bouncing and hopping. If you hold it off until its slow you'll burn up a bunch of runway. There is absolutely no need to be approaching at 80 -85 knots in the 8. A 70 knot approach is rock solid and gives plenty of energy to pull power and flair with a wheel landing. It provides a nice stablized approach that doesn't require you to float down the runway for a quarter of a mile in ground effect. Note that I work off of 2200' of grass so I'm sensitve to getting the speed right. 70 works fine (calm conditions) and I bet you can go slower when you're really comfortable in the airplane.

4. Make sure that you have good intersection fairings on the gear to fuselage intersection. These make a big difference in the stall speeds on 8's. My '8 is buffeting at 50KIAS and breaking at 48-49 KIAS (full flaps). This is at about 1600 lbs weight and CG 20% back from front edge of the envelop.

Good luck and have fun.

Originally Posted by AirbusPilot

My big problem is that I have never land a plane on wheels, I have just performed 3 point landing on Cessna 180, PA-18, Aeronca Champion and RV-7, 20 hours total time. None of the Intructor that I flew with wanted to teach to land on wheels, they said you are OK to fly the plane doing 3 point landing, after a few hours you are going to start landing on wheells by your own. So I need to land my 8 at least for the first hours on 3 point.

Please advise Maiden is coming soon

[Andy Hill]

Fernando...

I will disagree with some of the posters above

You posted:

and 8 CG location for 3 point landing.

Empty weight is 1110 Lbs. and Empty CG is at forward limit 15% MAC

My question is how much weight do I have to add to rear baggage aerea to have enought elevator control to flare and land my 8 safetely doing a 3 point landing like I did with the 7

and they are some perceptive points/questions.

First of all, and this in only in my opinion / experience, the RV-8 CG does need to be taken into account for landing type, especially at the testing stage. The Test Pilot who did our RV-8 put some ballast in the back, and for the 2 RV-8s I have done the inital test flying, so have I... in each case because 3 point landings were desired. Incidentally, all 3 RV-8s I refer to were of similar configs and CG to yours (ours is 1106/78.59" v Fwd Limit 78.70"). Solo without ballast and 3 point is a challenge - you really have to work at it to keep it off the ground until the right attitude, and in my experience, you are right on back stick.

Wheeler or 3 point? There are a number of factors which you choose to do... We fly dual more often than solo, and it 3 points just fine dual. It is harder to wheeler dual well, and I would avoid for a first flight anyway - anything to keep the energy low on landing helps. Solo it does wheel nicely, but you need to be happy with that, and it needs to be the right surface.

I suspect the "wheel it every time" advocates tend to fly solo more often, and typically have 6000' of hard concrete In a country where 1500' of rough grass is more typical, I wonder whether they would still prefer to wheel it on

To answer your question, 2 comments:
1. First, you have decided to 3 point it, so I would advise getting the CG aft. In that you will be solo, ~50lbs (secured) in the rear baggage area. I've just run the calcs, and that puts you mid CG range, and I cannot think of a better place anyway for a first flight.
2. As to whether you should undertake the first flight, it is really up to you. You have some advice above... If you limit the conditions to those where a 3 point is OK i.e. not significant crosswinds, and you are confident in 3 pointing it, then fine. Even if you get wheeler trained on a Cub, not sure I would translate that straight to an RV-8 1st flight.

Hope that's of some use

Andy (Hill)
RV-8 G-HILZ

[Andy Hill]

Further to David's points, please NB his speeds are for his RV-8 / ASI. I have seen variations of 15K due ASI "issues" and these will only really come to light on/after the first flight.

We use 75K on base, 70K on finals with a minimum of 65K on entry to the flare normally. For our (short) strip I will fly 60-65K final, but knowing I will use power to get "round the corner" in the flare.

For a first flight, I'd keep the speed on the high side, and use a long runway, until you get a feel for the landing characteristics and ASI readings on your 8.

Andy

[AirbusPilot]

Thanks again for you replies.

Here is a few point.

1. I feel completely comfortable with high performance aircraft so I am not going to have problems with the 8 at least in the air.

2. I will give my 8 to a more experience pilot but in Chile here is not too many pilot that fly tail dragger and/or RVs. At least I have flown a 7 for a few hour.

3. I will be flying from a 3000' hard surface field with no obstacles.

4. I will fly on morning with no winds.

So big question is, will my 8 able to 3 point like the 7 did???, because I am not going to try to land on wheels.

And if I really need to have a full taildragger Instruction to fly my 8 for the first time, I will need to make arrangement for holidays in some country where I may get that, because that is almost impossible here in Chile.

Please advise???

[dedgemon]

I'm pretty new to the '8, but Andy's points seem about right. I suspect that 3 points would feel better with the CG about in the middle of the range instead of in the forward quarter. I've done a couple of 3 points and it does take a pretty good pull to get the nose high enough. A more aft CG would help. The good news here is that when (not if) you bounce a landing, its well behaved. Just keep it straight and don't give up on it. It'll settle down in a bit.

Andy's speeds sound pretty similar to mine. My advice on new airplanes is to do some stalls (just nibble at them) on the first flight so that you can see if you're airspeed makes any kind of sense. You should have an idea of where it should be from Vans numbers, etc... If its buffeting at 60 knots then I wouldn't us 70 down final. Its just a judgment thing.

I am based on 2200' of grass so first flight on a mile long runway wasn't terribly practical. I think if you pick your speed appropriately your 3000' is more than ample.

I'm definitely still in the getting to know you phase of this airplane. My RV-9A fits like an old shoe now, but the 8's not there yet.