Many RV builders are computer or software engineers, or simply computer geeks (that's a compliment in my world). I wonder if anyone has entered an RV project into one of the project management software packages like Microsoft Project, or an open source equivalent package. Would help RV newbs like myself understand the whole process and help plan ahead during the process.
Van's Air Force
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Project management for RV builds?
- Thread starter rfinch
- Start date
MS Project is a waste of your life - its one and only useful purpose in life is to help display your project status to upper management, and it really isn't that good at that.
There are some decent open source products to help track issues and schedules. Since a homebuilder generally has only one resource (him/herself) to allocate to the work, though, I'm thinking that a simple ticket / issue tracker would suffice. Most offer a way of prioritizing and stating dependencies, so for example there might not be any purpose in starting your panel until the basic fuselage is complete.
At the end of the day, your paper instructions could probably serve as a simple project tracking guide. Just separate all the pages, and check them off when they are complete. Much more than that and you are just adding work to an already long process.
My 2 cents worth - oh, and although I've been head of technology for a major internet company, I bought rather than built....
There are some decent open source products to help track issues and schedules. Since a homebuilder generally has only one resource (him/herself) to allocate to the work, though, I'm thinking that a simple ticket / issue tracker would suffice. Most offer a way of prioritizing and stating dependencies, so for example there might not be any purpose in starting your panel until the basic fuselage is complete.
At the end of the day, your paper instructions could probably serve as a simple project tracking guide. Just separate all the pages, and check them off when they are complete. Much more than that and you are just adding work to an already long process.
My 2 cents worth - oh, and although I've been head of technology for a major internet company, I bought rather than built....
Jim P
Well Known Member
My 2 Cents
I'd agreee that generally, MS Project is way overkill, consumes a lot of time (if you don't know how to use the tool), and is rarely updated except when the boss wants to drag some muckity-muck through the office. If you have multiple users updating the schedule, it's going to be a mess.
That said, I find the functionality for network diagrams, not the pidley gantt stuff, really can give a good visual for the order of the work flow, organized by major components into a swimlane-type diagram. I've kind of wanted to do this with the RV project, but it's somewhat low on the priority order. I've also seen this method used on major DOD aircraft depot projects and it does work well.
I'd agreee that generally, MS Project is way overkill, consumes a lot of time (if you don't know how to use the tool), and is rarely updated except when the boss wants to drag some muckity-muck through the office. If you have multiple users updating the schedule, it's going to be a mess.
That said, I find the functionality for network diagrams, not the pidley gantt stuff, really can give a good visual for the order of the work flow, organized by major components into a swimlane-type diagram. I've kind of wanted to do this with the RV project, but it's somewhat low on the priority order. I've also seen this method used on major DOD aircraft depot projects and it does work well.
As an IT Project Manager for a large company, I live in MS Project every day for 3-5 large efforts. The thought of putting the build into project has crossed my mind, but I don't really think it would work well for two big reasons.
1.) There isn't a very good task list or work break down structure out there as far as I know - someone might be able to to create one out of the construction instructions, but they are fairly vague.
2.) The whole point of MS Project is so that you can perdict the phase end dates / major end date based on all the tasks and thier dependancies. But, without accurate estimates for each task, it wouldn't really be all that worth while to enter it into project. A spreadsheet would be just as good. Also, some people build a trim tab once in about 6 hours, others, well - we all know how that goes...
Now if someone did this retrospectively based on a detailed contruction log, it might be useful, but then again, it would have to be so specific (down to the level of - RV-7, QB, Tipup, IO-360, e-ignition, dynon 100/120 VFR panel, autopilot, manual aleron, electric elevator, follows construction manual word for word) to be useful for even a small amount of people.
1.) There isn't a very good task list or work break down structure out there as far as I know - someone might be able to to create one out of the construction instructions, but they are fairly vague.
2.) The whole point of MS Project is so that you can perdict the phase end dates / major end date based on all the tasks and thier dependancies. But, without accurate estimates for each task, it wouldn't really be all that worth while to enter it into project. A spreadsheet would be just as good. Also, some people build a trim tab once in about 6 hours, others, well - we all know how that goes...
Now if someone did this retrospectively based on a detailed contruction log, it might be useful, but then again, it would have to be so specific (down to the level of - RV-7, QB, Tipup, IO-360, e-ignition, dynon 100/120 VFR panel, autopilot, manual aleron, electric elevator, follows construction manual word for word) to be useful for even a small amount of people.
Holy cow....
I could go my whole engineering career (and I have many years left) without ever hearing the words "Work Breakdown Structure" and "Earned Value Management"...
MS Project can be helpful in some situations, but ask yourself one question:
If I make my hobby more like my job is it really an enjoyable hobby anymore?
To each his own, so if doing it in MS project really excites you, then go for it. But you won't ever see a Gantt chart for my hobbies, else you'll be seeing me at a 12 step program for project managers...
I could go my whole engineering career (and I have many years left) without ever hearing the words "Work Breakdown Structure" and "Earned Value Management"...
MS Project can be helpful in some situations, but ask yourself one question:
If I make my hobby more like my job is it really an enjoyable hobby anymore?
To each his own, so if doing it in MS project really excites you, then go for it. But you won't ever see a Gantt chart for my hobbies, else you'll be seeing me at a 12 step program for project managers...
RV7Guy
Well Known Member
Good Advice
Minimize computer use and you'll be flying much sooner. No need for "management software." What is needed is time management. Work smarter, not harder. A simple log will suffice fine. My DAR just flipped through it and made no comments. RV's are not science projects anymore. If you get a DAR that hasn't inspected one, I'd look for another DAR.
Pound rivets, not keys on the keyboard
Minimize computer use and you'll be flying much sooner. No need for "management software." What is needed is time management. Work smarter, not harder. A simple log will suffice fine. My DAR just flipped through it and made no comments. RV's are not science projects anymore. If you get a DAR that hasn't inspected one, I'd look for another DAR.
Pound rivets, not keys on the keyboard
Hey, I hear y'all about minimizing computer time. But my query was based on the facts that
I like computers (and I think lots of RVers do)
I have some experience with MS Project and don't think it's completely a waste
It would help me understand better the sequence of tasks and their relative times
I have some time during the day when I can't build but can do background stuff like this
Yeah, it's very easy to waste hours on the internet. But doing things like reading these forums and posting some questions will pay off in better understanding and fewer mistakes.
I like computers (and I think lots of RVers do)
I have some experience with MS Project and don't think it's completely a waste
It would help me understand better the sequence of tasks and their relative times
I have some time during the day when I can't build but can do background stuff like this
Yeah, it's very easy to waste hours on the internet. But doing things like reading these forums and posting some questions will pay off in better understanding and fewer mistakes.
Listen to Darwin!!
Listen to this guy!!!!!
Get to work and have the best airplane on / over the planet!!
Minimize computer use and you'll be flying much sooner. No need for "management software." What is needed is time management. Work smarter, not harder. A simple log will suffice fine. My DAR just flipped through it and made no comments. RV's are not science projects anymore. If you get a DAR that hasn't inspected one, I'd look for another DAR.
Pound rivets, not keys on the keyboard
Listen to this guy!!!!!
Get to work and have the best airplane on / over the planet!!
Couldn't have said it better myself. I get enough of having to BE the technical upper management and spouting "Work Breakdown Structure" enough at real work. There is no way I'm going to bring that home.
Ok, we all have the toys that we like to play with. For some, it may be MS Project and project statistics, for others... I understand.
Some people say just build it like on the plans (guilty), others are sometimes as much in it for the build process as actually flying (also guilty). Build on AND enjoy. Whatever that means to you.
I prepared a schedule, and I'm happy with it
Thanks for the reminder. Time to update my schedule again
I'm an engineer who works or manages (or occasionally both) many concurrent projects with many external dependencies on any given project.
In 2003, I created a basic project schedule for my RV-8A in MS Project, which I use at least weekly as part of my job. I built the schedule before I committed to beginning the kit, and I refer to it approximately twice a year.
I created the schedule with:
approximate build times (thank you Sam Buchanan)
equipment costs (thank you Vans and equipment vendors)
approximate shipping, tax, duty costs, (thank you Marc DeG.)
inspection fees (thank you MD-RA)
Why I created a schedule:
This is a major purchase for me.
I can't afford to build this airplane for $100K as a lump sum. I needed to understand the probably cash flow. This led me to believe that I could afford to get started. - even to build most of the airplane, before I had to send the wife back to work...
I can probably afford to build this airplane for the cash flow I established, USING THE SCHEDULE.
+Did I get the build durations right?
Not a chance. I'm slower, dumber, and more error-prone than average - my times are not going to be average. I'm also away a lot for work.
+Do I update the schedule?
Yes, first update took an hour after I got the empennage kit.
I haven't updated it since receiving the wing kit - I've got some time before I need it again.
+Are the costs accurate?
Yes, in $CDN, which means little at the moment, as the exchange rate when I started was 0.65 and is now 1.05 or so. (I'm thinking about quickbuild fuse and an engine ASAP before the US fixes their dollar. Holy 30% Discount Batman!)
I don't think that there is any point or joy in taking the detail of the schedule down to the "cleco here" level, as it becomes wasted effort tracking - as much effort as performing the work on the kit, and doesn't provide any feedback I need. It'd be interesting to see, though.
I won't spend much time arguing about project management at work - I've lived without it, and with it, and been it, over 18 years. I prefer life with it, and being it if necessary. Lots less surprises.
I used to sound like most of the posts about schedules and WBS here, and know others who did as well.
There is a point, (if you are still complaining, you haven't reached it yet -it was pretty clear when it arrived for me) at which you begin to get some personal value out of scheduling at work; yes, and out of the WBS as well.
Yes, basic scheduling can be done in your head. No, you are not going to accurately be able to judge whether or not a change has a significant impact on a complex project without a more formal schedule than your skull.
Scheduling is like any tool we use - there are good fits and bad, correct application and misapplication, and the tool holding the tool is a part of achieving the desired result.
Thanks for the reminder. Time to update my schedule again
I'm an engineer who works or manages (or occasionally both) many concurrent projects with many external dependencies on any given project.
In 2003, I created a basic project schedule for my RV-8A in MS Project, which I use at least weekly as part of my job. I built the schedule before I committed to beginning the kit, and I refer to it approximately twice a year.
I created the schedule with:
approximate build times (thank you Sam Buchanan)
equipment costs (thank you Vans and equipment vendors)
approximate shipping, tax, duty costs, (thank you Marc DeG.)
inspection fees (thank you MD-RA)
Why I created a schedule:
This is a major purchase for me.
I can't afford to build this airplane for $100K as a lump sum. I needed to understand the probably cash flow. This led me to believe that I could afford to get started. - even to build most of the airplane, before I had to send the wife back to work...
I can probably afford to build this airplane for the cash flow I established, USING THE SCHEDULE.
+Did I get the build durations right?
Not a chance. I'm slower, dumber, and more error-prone than average - my times are not going to be average. I'm also away a lot for work.
+Do I update the schedule?
Yes, first update took an hour after I got the empennage kit.
I haven't updated it since receiving the wing kit - I've got some time before I need it again.
+Are the costs accurate?
Yes, in $CDN, which means little at the moment, as the exchange rate when I started was 0.65 and is now 1.05 or so. (I'm thinking about quickbuild fuse and an engine ASAP before the US fixes their dollar. Holy 30% Discount Batman!)
I don't think that there is any point or joy in taking the detail of the schedule down to the "cleco here" level, as it becomes wasted effort tracking - as much effort as performing the work on the kit, and doesn't provide any feedback I need. It'd be interesting to see, though.
I won't spend much time arguing about project management at work - I've lived without it, and with it, and been it, over 18 years. I prefer life with it, and being it if necessary. Lots less surprises.
I used to sound like most of the posts about schedules and WBS here, and know others who did as well.
There is a point, (if you are still complaining, you haven't reached it yet -it was pretty clear when it arrived for me) at which you begin to get some personal value out of scheduling at work; yes, and out of the WBS as well.
Yes, basic scheduling can be done in your head. No, you are not going to accurately be able to judge whether or not a change has a significant impact on a complex project without a more formal schedule than your skull.
Scheduling is like any tool we use - there are good fits and bad, correct application and misapplication, and the tool holding the tool is a part of achieving the desired result.
Jim P
Well Known Member
Throw out the Schedule...
I preface my post here with the disclaimer that I'm not a PMI wonk, flexibility in applying the principals that add value is the real key! (The corporate world has inflitrated the thread!)
I'll stand by the point of my last post. I think coming up with a schedule for one of these projects is pretty useless when you get below the big things such as wiring this Winter, cowl/ canopy in the Spring, Hand engine/ baffles in the Fall, and move to airport in the Winter.
The value I see is a work flow diagram (I know, it's geeky) that is well thought out with dependencies. It's going to save a bunch of time for you in standing around asking "what's next?" and it can provide the triggers for JIT logistics (ordering kits, parts, manufacturing lead times). It also give you options on working on other stuff when the current sub-project has you burned out. OK, that entails a bit of work breakdown but hey, that's basically how Vans' has the manual organized.
I preface my post here with the disclaimer that I'm not a PMI wonk, flexibility in applying the principals that add value is the real key!
(The corporate world has inflitrated the thread!)I'll stand by the point of my last post. I think coming up with a schedule for one of these projects is pretty useless when you get below the big things such as wiring this Winter, cowl/ canopy in the Spring, Hand engine/ baffles in the Fall, and move to airport in the Winter.
The value I see is a work flow diagram (I know, it's geeky) that is well thought out with dependencies. It's going to save a bunch of time for you in standing around asking "what's next?" and it can provide the triggers for JIT logistics (ordering kits, parts, manufacturing lead times). It also give you options on working on other stuff when the current sub-project has you burned out. OK, that entails a bit of work breakdown but hey, that's basically how Vans' has the manual organized.
N941WR
Legacy Member
I have spent over 15 years as a PM and when it came time to work on my -9 the WBS sequence used where those called out for in the builder's manual.
To me building was an escape, as is flying, so I didn't want to bring my job into my hobby. However, if I can figure out how to bring my hobby into my job, then all would be right with the world.
However, this does not mean I didn't make task lists for myself with dependencies, only that I didn't stick with it. OMG, work did infiltrate my hobby. Only, it was done on a small scale with Excel and not MSProject.
To me building was an escape, as is flying, so I didn't want to bring my job into my hobby. However, if I can figure out how to bring my hobby into my job, then all would be right with the world.
However, this does not mean I didn't make task lists for myself with dependencies, only that I didn't stick with it. OMG, work did infiltrate my hobby. Only, it was done on a small scale with Excel and not MSProject.
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N797RV
Member
I am a PM for a electronics integration company and use Microsoft Proect on a daily basis. The prupose of PM software for me is to communicate the status of a job and to predict and avoid conflicts to the team. I also thought about doing a project plan but canned the idea because I would be basicly talking to myself. LOL
My project plan turned out to be reading the manual once before I started building, and following Vans plan with no deviation.
My project plan turned out to be reading the manual once before I started building, and following Vans plan with no deviation.
MrNomad
Well Known Member
Don't listen to people who can probably build blindfolded
Here's how I managed the project given this was my first build and I had no clue when I started.
I used Excell to keep track of all purchases.
I used my logbook to keep track of time.
However, information is probably the most important component unless this is your third airplane. Information (building tips, suggestions) is going to come to you before you need it. For example, I am now painting my 9 but for more than a year I've accumulated articles and postings whenever I found them so that I would have them available when needed.
I used a very primitive filing system. I simply subdivided my RV9A folder into sub folders as information arrived. Therefore, I have sub folders on WINGS, PAINTING, PROP, COWL, CANOPY, PANEL, etc., etc., and even a sub folder for DOCUMENTATION and FAA for the airworthiness process.
Whether the information arrives in the form of pictures, emails or WORD docs, they are all stored in their proper sub folder.
Piece of bakalava.
Barry
Tucson
Here's how I managed the project given this was my first build and I had no clue when I started.
I used Excell to keep track of all purchases.
I used my logbook to keep track of time.
However, information is probably the most important component unless this is your third airplane. Information (building tips, suggestions) is going to come to you before you need it. For example, I am now painting my 9 but for more than a year I've accumulated articles and postings whenever I found them so that I would have them available when needed.
I used a very primitive filing system. I simply subdivided my RV9A folder into sub folders as information arrived. Therefore, I have sub folders on WINGS, PAINTING, PROP, COWL, CANOPY, PANEL, etc., etc., and even a sub folder for DOCUMENTATION and FAA for the airworthiness process.
Whether the information arrives in the form of pictures, emails or WORD docs, they are all stored in their proper sub folder.
Piece of bakalava.
Barry
Tucson
Well, so the consensus seems to be to consider what your personal needs are and select the right tool for the job. Some wonks love MS Proj; others prefer Visio for some quick diagrams; some just use Excel to track costs and estimate budgets.
One other thought - you might well want some tools if you plan to outsource some of the work. After all, if you have progressed beyond your PMP; have black-belted your way beyond ITIL; hava assayed your ISO; then you might wish to employ DAR; SAM; and other CMMI tools to guarantee a high level of uniformity in ....
... or just build it!
P.S. I did not build my plane, but am upgrading my second panel. EPanelBuilder.com is a great visualizer, and you can either pay to have the work done or use it as a starting point to cut and wire your own panel.
I let my mechanic deal with my engine.
One other thought - you might well want some tools if you plan to outsource some of the work. After all, if you have progressed beyond your PMP; have black-belted your way beyond ITIL; hava assayed your ISO; then you might wish to employ DAR; SAM; and other CMMI tools to guarantee a high level of uniformity in ....
... or just build it!
P.S. I did not build my plane, but am upgrading my second panel. EPanelBuilder.com is a great visualizer, and you can either pay to have the work done or use it as a starting point to cut and wire your own panel.
I let my mechanic deal with my engine.
Ramendala
Active Member
Ralph,
Come to NWEAA next July and visit "two weeks to taxi" for the sportsman (now 7/7a and 10/10a as well). They have a project board (probably 6'x6') with every task printed on paper (paper is a fiberous product once used as a form of communication ) with columns for checking off task completions and then areas where inspections are required which are also checked off.
IMHO this made both the current status and next steps obvious.
This lets you focus on building without the temptation to engage in activities such as Unreal Tournament and the like that computers seem to cause.
After building 2.5 aircraft is seems that having everything in front of you always seems best.
Ryan
Come to NWEAA next July and visit "two weeks to taxi" for the sportsman (now 7/7a and 10/10a as well). They have a project board (probably 6'x6') with every task printed on paper (paper is a fiberous product once used as a form of communication
) with columns for checking off task completions and then areas where inspections are required which are also checked off. IMHO this made both the current status and next steps obvious.
This lets you focus on building without the temptation to engage in activities such as Unreal Tournament and the like that computers seem to cause.
After building 2.5 aircraft is seems that having everything in front of you always seems best.
Ryan
I think I will, I have a sister in Bellingham and July is a good time for a Californian to visit Washington.
Say, I thought they had to leave Arlington? Why am I thinking that?
RF
we're on the same page
I think that we are on the same page.
High level schedule was useful for me planning cash flow, low level detailed schedule is unmanageable, and therefore nearly useless. Thus the update every 6 months (can we afford to buy her flowers? can I afford not to?) for cash flow.
The corporate world certainly has invaded VAF.
Where did you think most of us are posting from????
Not at home when we could be building
I think that we are on the same page.
High level schedule was useful for me planning cash flow, low level detailed schedule is unmanageable, and therefore nearly useless. Thus the update every 6 months (can we afford to buy her flowers? can I afford not to?) for cash flow.
The corporate world certainly has invaded VAF.
Where did you think most of us are posting from????
Not at home when we could be building
mikeangiulo
Active Member
It could be helpful...
I actually agree that if you're going to start from day 1 and build an RV straight through, alone, that entering all the work into MS Project probably doesn't offer you much. Just go step by step until you run out of things to do and go fly.
Where it could be interesting is if someone goes and builds a good description of all the tasks involved and specifically marks the tasks that Vans already completes in the QB process. I know I've spent some time, especially now on the fuselage, trying to figure out what was already done. It would also be useful for when you're stuck waiting on a part to be able to find a different sub assembly to start working on that doesn't have any dependencies.
In fact I'm willing to make this a contest - whoever sends me the most interesting, thorough & useful Microsoft Project file for an RV project (hopefully an -8) by Valentine's day, 2008 will get a free copy of Microsoft Project Professional 2007 (or if you already own that I'll get you a copy of our next version when we ship). I say "our" next version because I'm the General Manager of the Project Business Unit at Microsoft and an RV 8 builder!
Send me your submissions - I'm [email protected]
-Mike
I actually agree that if you're going to start from day 1 and build an RV straight through, alone, that entering all the work into MS Project probably doesn't offer you much. Just go step by step until you run out of things to do and go fly.
Where it could be interesting is if someone goes and builds a good description of all the tasks involved and specifically marks the tasks that Vans already completes in the QB process. I know I've spent some time, especially now on the fuselage, trying to figure out what was already done. It would also be useful for when you're stuck waiting on a part to be able to find a different sub assembly to start working on that doesn't have any dependencies.
In fact I'm willing to make this a contest - whoever sends me the most interesting, thorough & useful Microsoft Project file for an RV project (hopefully an -8) by Valentine's day, 2008 will get a free copy of Microsoft Project Professional 2007 (or if you already own that I'll get you a copy of our next version when we ship). I say "our" next version because I'm the General Manager of the Project Business Unit at Microsoft and an RV 8 builder!
Send me your submissions - I'm [email protected]
-Mike
grjtucson
Well Known Member
A spark of an idea...
Mike,
Your post and this thread have had me thinking about an idea that Ironflight and others were kicking around some time ago. It intrigued me then and it does today.
I would love to be a part of building an RV Standard Build airplane in a weekend at a fly-in. Here are some thoughts:
I'd be willing to work a weekend and to donate a hundred or two for the privilege of being a part of it. Working side-by-side with some of the people on VAF rather that just hanging around talking would be an interesting twist on the average fly-in and worth the price of admission many times over. I'll happily help organize it in advance though this will need someone with some more horsepower than I have to spearhead it.
I would think we'd want to let everyone know in advance what their tasks are planned to be so folks could practice/read up/plan their work. We'd obviously have alternates and cushion in the schedule for surprises, and we'd have to plan carefully around the obvious bottlenecks of fiberglass and proseal. We might have to adopt a few construction practices that aren't mainstream but that have been successfully used to streamline build times -- the quality of the pre-punched kits make that quite feasible. All of that said, I think it is possible that from a Friday afternoon to a Sunday evening we could build and fly an RV. In honor of Dan Checkoway, it would be painted later, if at all
Finally, I also believe this exercise would be a great opportunity to create/compile/organize/present a set of "best practices" for safe and efficient building that would advance the state of our knowledgebase and be an excellent resource going forward. I've seen Wiki's that were started but never got traction -- this project might be the impetus to finish one that is authoritative.
It's a bunch of thinking I admit, anyone care to comment?
George
Mike,
Your post and this thread have had me thinking about an idea that Ironflight and others were kicking around some time ago. It intrigued me then and it does today.
I would love to be a part of building an RV Standard Build airplane in a weekend at a fly-in. Here are some thoughts:
- It obviously needs strong project management talent and software
- It needs some leadership from those who regularly put on fly-ins and get sponsors
- It needs the "best practices" ideas from those builders who have built very efficiently
- It needs a bunch of builders to bring tools and talent
- It needs a bunch of vendors / sponsors to donate parts, equipment, talent, and money
- It needs a location we can get to with facilities to build in
- It needs a cause to give the plane to, or the proceeds from the raffle for the plane, or the proceeds from the sale of the plane to one of the builders
I'd be willing to work a weekend and to donate a hundred or two for the privilege of being a part of it. Working side-by-side with some of the people on VAF rather that just hanging around talking would be an interesting twist on the average fly-in and worth the price of admission many times over. I'll happily help organize it in advance though this will need someone with some more horsepower than I have to spearhead it.
I would think we'd want to let everyone know in advance what their tasks are planned to be so folks could practice/read up/plan their work. We'd obviously have alternates and cushion in the schedule for surprises, and we'd have to plan carefully around the obvious bottlenecks of fiberglass and proseal. We might have to adopt a few construction practices that aren't mainstream but that have been successfully used to streamline build times -- the quality of the pre-punched kits make that quite feasible. All of that said, I think it is possible that from a Friday afternoon to a Sunday evening we could build and fly an RV. In honor of Dan Checkoway, it would be painted later, if at all
Finally, I also believe this exercise would be a great opportunity to create/compile/organize/present a set of "best practices" for safe and efficient building that would advance the state of our knowledgebase and be an excellent resource going forward. I've seen Wiki's that were started but never got traction -- this project might be the impetus to finish one that is authoritative.
It's a bunch of thinking I admit, anyone care to comment?
George
I still think that the one-day airplane would be an incredible achievement and potentially gather some serious attention. It likely would take corporate sponsorship of some kind - the fact is, you'll probably need a couple kits - at least one for a practice build (maybe more - you give each person their piece on the first one, have an all-up practice at slow speed with the next) and one for the "big show" you could re-use the big, expensive parts from the practice build - engine, avionics, etc.
It would require some very dedicated people to do the detailed planning, and yes, it would be an excellent example of not only the art of experimental building, but of project management. What do you think - would Microsoft kick in a $100K-$200K?
I'd play!
It would require some very dedicated people to do the detailed planning, and yes, it would be an excellent example of not only the art of experimental building, but of project management. What do you think - would Microsoft kick in a $100K-$200K?
I'd play!
I have worked in R&D my entire adult life, and I have never used any project software except when involved in huge projects (500+ persons). As a first time builder, my RV-4 project almost identical to a R&D project where new things pops up every other day and where things that "should" take 1/2 hour takes 1/2 a week (or even 1/2 a month when waiting for new parts ). The essential thing is to have a plan that sections large things into smaller pieces in the correct sequence, and the manual from Van's is all the plan I need. For me the time aspects are completely irrelevant and I have no other persons that depends on me being finished.
When several (3+) trained and experienced persons join to build a plane and have to be finished at a certain date and within a certain budget, then a project software starts to make much more sense.
). The essential thing is to have a plan that sections large things into smaller pieces in the correct sequence, and the manual from Van's is all the plan I need. For me the time aspects are completely irrelevant and I have no other persons that depends on me being finished.When several (3+) trained and experienced persons join to build a plane and have to be finished at a certain date and within a certain budget, then a project software starts to make much more sense.
sportpilot
Well Known Member
time and motion
My view is that its a time and motion study problem. If youve ever worked in an invironment where someone keeps a stop watch on you 8 hours a day you learn many things about your little wasted efforts. They sure do add up. One huge area of wasted time is chasing tools, parts, and data. The better you lay out your shop, tools, and parts, the faster you will go. Walking around things, tripping over things, untagleing air hoses and extension cords, that eats up your clock. Just a simple thing like a run down battery on your cordless drill can cost you an hour unless you have a back up.
A fellow I know is building an RV10, and his idea of parts storage is to just pour everything out on a table, and when you want someting just hunt for it. Hmmmmm...
My view is that its a time and motion study problem. If youve ever worked in an invironment where someone keeps a stop watch on you 8 hours a day you learn many things about your little wasted efforts. They sure do add up. One huge area of wasted time is chasing tools, parts, and data. The better you lay out your shop, tools, and parts, the faster you will go. Walking around things, tripping over things, untagleing air hoses and extension cords, that eats up your clock. Just a simple thing like a run down battery on your cordless drill can cost you an hour unless you have a back up.
A fellow I know is building an RV10, and his idea of parts storage is to just pour everything out on a table, and when you want someting just hunt for it. Hmmmmm...
mikeangiulo
Active Member
I did get a few replies and Noah Forden's was the most complete so I'm sending him off a copy of Microsoft Project Professional 2007, on the house so to speak
