2 abreast !! OMG LOL
Falcon Flight (RV's) in 2016 landed in 4-ship echelons!
Ok, not exactly abreast but pretty much the same thing.
Mark
2016 was the 3rd time the group landed in 4-ship echelons for arrival at AirVenture that I was in.
2 abreast !! OMG LOL
Falcon Flight (RV's) in 2016 landed in 4-ship echelons!
Ok, not exactly abreast but pretty much the same thing.
Mark
If the FAA ignores the issue they had with their controllers, which in my opinion was the single biggest problem, I don't expect to see anything different than last years cluster #@$#. It's a bloody miracle their wasn't a midair on Sunday last year.
Blaming the pilots for the conditions or not following "procedures" is baloney, the ATC situation was totally out of control.
I was in the mess when controllers were calling for 1 mile and then 2 mile spacing, and landing 1 aircraft on a runway at a time.
I can barely see an aircraft a mile in front of me, 2 miles no way. With 2 mile spacing they'd be lined up back to Oklahoma.
On Monday when I returned to try again the same nonsense was going on with ATC, nobody landing and no one being "allowed" past Ripon, I got the feeling the controllers just didn't feel like dealing with it so the easy way was just keep telling people to go away.
Despite this, a call came in from an RV-8 flight of two requesting a 360-degree overhead approach.
I think I have written enough here already about everyone's hard work and how a lot of people are working on LOTS of areas. For those of you who still just want to blame the controllers, you are welcome to your opinion.
The rest of us will work on the areas WE can control and TRUST that the others are working on their areas.
I'm done here with this thread. Watch for more info on this in columns from Jack, Charlie, and Paul.
Vic
First of all, thank you EAA volunteers and related support people. I do appreciate what you're doing. But I just can't let this go. I'm not an astronaut or brain surgeon, but I have been flying to Oshkosh regularly over the last 18-19 years. And to say that the pilots are any more of a factor now, or are a significantly different factor than they were 3 years ago, 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, is just not correct. I came in early in 2018 on Saturday. Sunday I sat right alongside rwy 36 and watched the landings that occurred every 1-5 mins (per plane) and listened to the controllers at FISKE *not* complying with the NOTAM.Two years in a row I have seen poor performance on pilots arriving, unfamiliar with notam requirements, or just not complying, so until we clean up our act, we shouldn't be pointing fingers.
JMHO.
First of all, thank you EAA volunteers and related support people. I do appreciate what you're doing. But I just can't let this go. I'm not an astronaut or brain surgeon, but I have been flying to Oshkosh regularly over the last 18-19 years. And to say that the pilots are any more of a factor now, or are a different factor than they were 3 years ago, 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, is just not correct. I came in early in 2018 on Saturday. Sunday I sat right alongside rwy 36 and watched the landings that occurred every 1-5 mins (per plane) and listened to the controllers at Fiske *not* complying with the NOTAM.
There will be a text message system to provide information to pilots on the way to Oshkosh to keep us informed of any status changes....
Hopefully this new text system works better than the existing text alert system that has been in place for years.
First of all, thank you EAA volunteers and related support people. I do appreciate what you're doing. But I just can't let this go. I'm not an astronaut or brain surgeon, but I have been flying to Oshkosh regularly over the last 18-19 years. And to say that the pilots are any more of a factor now, or are a significantly different factor than they were 3 years ago, 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, is just not correct. I came in early in 2018 on Saturday. Sunday I sat right alongside rwy 36 and watched the landings that occurred every 1-5 mins (per plane) and listened to the controllers at FISKE *not* complying with the NOTAM.
The facts are simple. We, as individuals, cannot control what the controllers do, what the EAA does, what the FAA does - or what OTHER pilots do. The ONLY thing we can control is ourselves and our airplane. If we are not over the railroad tracks at 90 knots a half mile behind the plane in front, we need to break out - or we?re not complying with the NOTAM. Oh, and if I can SEE the railroad tracks...I?m not over them.
Paul
Maybe I'm getting too mission-oriented with the idea that landing at OSH was the "reward," whereas I arguably reaped a better reward by not compromising safety.
You might not have been there at the same time I was Bryan, so we might have seen and heard different things but I informally debriefed lots of pilots during the week about the Sunday traffic, and stories of pilots five abreast between Ripon and Fiske, all converging on Fiske were common. Ten years ago, you rarely heard about ?road rage? - now it is pretty common all over. The same thing is happening in the air. Everyone is expecting to get ?their share? given to them, and they get angry when it isn?t. Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around, and I have no idea why the controllers starting making things up. But to use that to say that the pilots are blameless is just wrong....
Paul
We are a month out and the EAA hasn’t published a definitive mass arrival schedule or provided any actionable information about the text alerts for arrivals.
That information needs to be published immediately so it can be communicated here, in other forums and publications, and person to person between flying buddies.
Failure to communicate a plan is every bit as bad as not having one.
The large formation arrival info was communicated on the recent Webinar. Here is part of a screen grab that I made.
We are a month out and the EAA hasn?t published a definitive mass arrival schedule or provided any actionable information about the text alerts for arrivals.
That information needs to be published immediately so it can be communicated here, in other forums and publications, and person to person between flying buddies.
Failure to communicate a plan is every bit as bad as not having one.
Here is the TEXT alert signup info. IT was in the June 12 webinar.
Gary, thanks for watching the webinars and sharing the information here.
It is a problem (IMO) that a google search and a search of EAA?s website doesn?t turn up any of this information. Webinars are great, but making that info available on the EAA website or through a press release would make it much easier to find.
Hey Kyle, I just dropped a note to EAA HQ folks suggestion they get the information more widely distributed through the media as soon as possible. I agree that they can sometimes get kind of lost in the weeds this time of year when it comes to communication, and need to be reminded that not everyone lives on teh EAA web site or the webinars....
I got a prompt response back from HQ - they pointed me to the web site for information on the text messaging (that was apparently put out there on teh 13th of June):
https://eaa.org/airventure/eaa-airv...19-AirVenture-Changes-for-Text-Message-Alerts
I pointed back that in order to really reach folks, you have to saturation bomb all available means of getting to pilots that are going to attend - too many people dont read e-blasts, or go to web sites.....at least not pilot demographics (and I know that becasue I study those numbers....)
I got a prompt response back from HQ - they pointed me to the web site for information on the text messaging (that was apparently put out there on teh 13th of June):
https://eaa.org/airventure/eaa-airv...19-AirVenture-Changes-for-Text-Message-Alerts
This year it says "leave your transponder on".
I listened to the EAA webinar and twice Fred Stadler suggested passing slow aircraft on the right if there was room in front. But the Notam says no passing? Did anyone else catch that?
I will bail out and go around rather than pass, but why would he mention passing twice in the webinar. It sends a mixed message.
And gives plausible deniability to anyone busted for busting the NOTAM - not a good thing.
All of this is somewhat subject to judgement. Let's say you come up behind a Cub that's doing 70 miles an hour. There are 2 miles of open space in front of the Cub, and you can hear the thrum of the prop from a Comanche that's right on your tail. Are you gonna help alleviate the situation or are you gonna have the Comanche and a dozen other airplanes jammed into the mile of space immediately behind you?
It is a judgement call, but my opinion is you're better off to pass the Cub.