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  #41  
Old 11-02-2018, 08:33 PM
Bernard Hartnell Bernard Hartnell is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Grand Junction, CO
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Default Machine countersinking:F-14148A

When I prepared F-1414A, I did not double check the depth of the countersink on a scrap in a # 40 hole. Let me just say, you may not want to order that part again, if you forget the basic steps in countersinking🤪
Not deep enough is fixable. To deep . . . Well, plan on a moment of interspection at best! Yikes - after building a “completed” airplane, than this!!!
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  #42  
Old 11-03-2018, 07:27 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard Hartnell View Post
When I prepared F-1414A, I did not double check the depth of the countersink on a scrap in a # 40 hole. Let me just say, you may not want to order that part again, if you forget the basic steps in countersinking🤪
Not deep enough is fixable. To deep . . . Well, plan on a moment of interspection at best! Yikes - after building a “completed” airplane, than this!!!
Other than cosmetics and the loss of .001 knots of speed, any reason not to use universal head rivets?
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  #43  
Old 11-03-2018, 10:07 AM
RV-14E's Avatar
RV-14E RV-14E is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mturnerb View Post
Other than cosmetics and the loss of .001 knots of speed, any reason not to use universal head rivets?
Greetings.

I don't see the advantage of doing so. By the time you get around to installing the parts associated with the SB, you'll have developed the skills to manage it with confidence. And if you do make a mistake, those same skills can be brought to bear to address the error.

Countersinking the F-14148A Skin Doubler (the diamond plate) is straightforward. Use something underneath it with a #40 hole so the pilot on your c/s bit has somewhere to go. Use additional material on the side of the plate so your c/s cage stays normal to the surface

Doing the same as above for the F-14148B/C Stiffener Doublers (the ones that accept the dimples of the J-stiffener), you can follow also the advice on page 05-08:
For a dimpled skin riveted onto a machine countersunk surface the countersink must be slightly deeper as mentioned earlier. Proper depth is .007 deeper than when the rivet head is flush. This depth correction corresponds to seven "clicks" on a microstop countersink tool indexed in .001 inch increments.
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  #44  
Old 11-03-2018, 10:11 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV-14E View Post
Greetings.

I don't see the advantage of doing so. By the time you get around to installing the parts associated with the SB, you'll have developed the skills to manage it with confidence. And if you do make a mistake, those same skills can be brought to bear to address the error.

Countersinking the F-14148A Skin Doubler (the diamond plate) is straightforward. Use something underneath it with a #40 hole so the pilot on your c/s bit has somewhere to go. Use additional material on the side of the plate so your c/s cage stays normal to the surface

Doing the same as above for the F-14148B/C Stiffener Doublers (the ones that accept the dimples of the J-stiffener), you can follow also the advice on page 05-08:
For a dimpled skin riveted onto a machine countersunk surface the countersink must be slightly deeper as mentioned earlier. Proper depth is .007 deeper than when the rivet head is flush. This depth correction corresponds to seven "clicks" on a microstop countersink tool indexed in .001 inch increments.
No news here: I was asking the question to make a point really - and part of the point is that universal head rivets in a low-visibility area do no harm.
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Last edited by mturnerb : 11-03-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2018, 11:01 AM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
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After 25 years of riveting I do not make very many riveting mistakes, but if I do, it is usually a smile on a universal head. Given a choice I will always take flush headed rivets. Best in this location to follow the plans.
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2018, 05:36 PM
KeithB KeithB is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Granbury, TX
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On the belly, a universal head rivet will be an oil collection point. Even a less-than-flush flush rivet will do so. I believe using a universal would be a regrettable shortcut. YMMV
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  #47  
Old 11-04-2018, 05:46 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithB View Post
On the belly, a universal head rivet will be an oil collection point. Even a less-than-flush flush rivet will do so. I believe using a universal would be a regrettable shortcut. YMMV
There are already a number of non-flush (Cherry Max) rivets on the belly of an RV14/14A. I’m not advocating this particular approach but I don’t think a handful more rivets with a little oil to wipe off from time to time is going to be a source of regret or angst or even much of a second thought. We’re getting into primer war territory here. Amusing.
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Last edited by mturnerb : 11-04-2018 at 05:49 AM.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2018, 04:16 PM
azflyer21 azflyer21 is offline
 
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Location: Scottsdale AZ
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Finished the SB install, about 1 hour. My tailcone was completely built but not yet joined the the fuselage. I back-riveted with the tailcone on the ground, very easy.
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  #49  
Old 11-07-2018, 01:45 PM
greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Aurora, OR
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Quote:
I'm very interested in seeing a picture of the actual cracks as well. I see the service bulletin adds a single shear splice plate connecting the forward and aft center stiffener across the F-01408 bulkhead. It also has a couple of tension fittings that connect the F-01486-L/R stiffeners directly to the same bulkhead.

Were the cracks located on the skin at these three stiffeners? Greg, perhaps you can post a picture?
Sorry for the slow response. These reference images are to hopefully provide some additional location context for those reviewing the 18-09-17 service bulletin. These particular photos are of the Van's factory demo RV-14. Cracks were found on both of our RV-14 demo aircraft (conventional and tricycle models) here at the factory, as was described earlier. No meaningful difference between the two aircraft in terms of cracks/size/location/etc.



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  #50  
Old 11-09-2018, 04:15 PM
Cwood2000 Cwood2000 is offline
 
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Location: Tallahassee, fl
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I completed this project this week and found it to be challenging only because I am 6'1" 200 lbs and 67 years old. it was very difficult to get enough leverage to squeeze the 470-4 rivets, the rest not too bad. Two man job, took 1.5 hours.
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