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  #261  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:28 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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Okay, I'm straying from the instructions a little here. Normally, they want you to take this access cover, hold it against the rib, and use the prepunched #19 holes to drill holes in the rib. Then, hold the stiffener right aligned with those holes, and drill the nutplate attach rivet holes. Clear?

Instead, I'm going to eyeball the clocking of the access cover (so the flat part doesn't interfere with the indentation in the rib), then just use the stiffener ring for all the drilling. (I need to order a new access cover with no holes in it because I'm using flop tubes (don't need the small hole), which means I need to move the float sender to the second bay (don't need the large hole).)

You can see in this picture, the stiffener ring is laid in place, and it looks like the access cover is clocked correctly.
Access cover in the foreground, stiffener ring in the background.

Clamped.

Drilled.

Dimpled the rib, and countersunk the ring.

clecoed some K1000-8 nutplates in place.


Here's where things got frustrating. Because I wasn't paying attention, I just started riveting the nutplates in place.
Clearly I didn't countersink enough.

Another view. Yikes.


I drilled out six nutplates (didn't enlarge any holes in the rib or stiffener), but couldn't get the rivets out of the nutplates. They got THROWED AWAY!
Sorry, nutplates. You are going in the trash. It's not worth my time to fix you.


Okay, more countersinking, then try again. Still not deep enough? Ugh, more countersinking again, and finally, they were deep enough.

I got frustrated, so I stopped taking pictures. Sorry.

After much cursing and angry mumbling, I got all 24 rivets in for the 12 nutplates.

I had to drill out two more rivets because they were sitting a little proud. In the end though, I'm happy with the results.
These didn't need sealant because the access cover will be sealed over them.

A shop head shot.


24 rivets, 8 drilled out. (one third!? Ugh.)

2.0 glorious hours today.
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RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
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  #262  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:29 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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Post Title: Inboard Tank Attach Bracket
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Tue, 07 Jun 2011 03:00:20 +0000
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Well, my order came in from Van's today. Here are the goods.
It's like Christmas, but in June.


First up, a W-408-1R, NOTCHED NOSE RIB. Turns out, I ruined the other one by not making sure it was all lined up prior to drilling. I have a good idea on how to make this one work out, so stay tuned.

Also included in this order, my flop tubes, and some snap bushings, which I needed to order due to all of the holes I drilled in the wing ribs. (Oh man, now I want a steak.)
Leading edge rib, flop tubes, and snap bushings.


Then, the proseal (black death!), fuel tank leak test kit, and 25' of black corrugated tubing that should fit nicely in the holes I drilled in the ribs (see steaky link above).
Black tubing, proseal, and test kit.


Even though I REALLY WANTED to break out the proseal and start slathering it all over my workbench, airplane, hands, clothes, and face, I decided to wait until my popsicle sticks and syringes come in from amazon.

So tonight, I decided to work on the right inboard attach bracket.

After studying the plans, I grabbed the AA6...I'm not going to type out the part number. See the picture below.
Yup. That's it.

(Insert silence here where I tried for 10 minutes to figure out what R1 is.)


I'm really sorry to admit this, but I started scouring the internet. Googled "VAF R1 TANK ATTACH BRACKET" and "R1 NOTE DWG 16A VANS RV-7."

To no avail.

Then, someone's build site (can't remember who), admitted that they spent 10 minutes and some google searches trying to find out what the R1 stood for before they realized that it wasn't a note, it was RADIUS=1 inch.

Duh.

Okay, I've got some lines drawn.
Whose cute toes are those?

I think that is T-410 on the top of the picture. I used that to trace mirror images on the 2" side.

Then, I pulled a can of OFF from the shelf and used it to make a 1" radius circle. Then, connected the tangents after drawing a 1/2" line along each side of the bottom. (The drawing is half scale, and it was 1.4" on the drawing.)
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RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
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  #263  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:31 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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After some sawing, I for some reason lost interest and broke out some of the snap bushings.

Two of the smaller size (SB375-4), and one of the bigger size (SB437-4).
Sweet. These will work perfectly.

Nice.

Umm, who took this redundant picture?


Okay, back to sawing.
Hmm. This turned out to be annoying with the jigsaw. Maybe I need a bandsaw.

Done.


Insert about 30 minutes of deburring on the scotchbrite wheel....
Deburred.


So, then I put it in the nose of the inboard rib, and admired how nicely it fit. (Actually, it still needs a little trimming around the edges.)
Looks good.


Okay, I didn't do a good job of taking pictures here, but basically, I drew a line 1 and 1/16" back from the tip of the rib, and then drew a line parallel to the front edge, but 2 diameters of the final rivet size (1/8") away.
Here's where I got the 1 and 1/16" from.


Then, I marked and drilled 5 of the 6 rivet holes, along with the center hole, which is the pilot hole for the 9/16" hole that the flop tube fitting will fit through.
confused?

Here's a better picture. 5 plus the pilot drilled, and I've laid in the AN nut to see where I can put the sixth (marked) without rivet head interference.
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Andrew Z.
Engineering Flight Test Pilot/Engineer, CFI-A, CFII, ATP
RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
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  #264  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:32 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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This is me trying to figure out what size hole I'll need for the fitting.
0.563? What fraction gives me 0.563?


Obviously 8/16" is 0.5 and 5/8" is 0.625. Let's try 9 divided by 16.
Wuhoo!


Apparently I don't have a 9/16" bit, but I did work my way up to 1/2" and then lay in some AN470AD4-7 rivets so I could show you my good spacing.
How's it look?

Here's the other side.


1.5 hours. Still need a 9/16" bit, but that won't stop me from getting into the tank stiffeners, drain flange, and filler cap soon.

I'm actually looking forward to it. Maybe this week.
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Andrew Z.
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RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
2018 Dues Paid
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  #265  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:33 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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Post Title: Riveted Right Tank Stiffeners
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Thu, 09 Jun 2011 01:00:30 +0000
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Well, tonight was the big night. I finally got started sealing up the right tank.

The general order is as follows:

•Backrivet stiffeners
•Rivet drain flange and fuel cap flange (don't forget the vent clip!)
•Cleco all ribs into tank (to maintain assembly straightness)
•Starting with second-to outboardmost rib (the smallest area to work for bucking), seal and rivet each inboard rib. Assuming 7 ribs, from inboard to outboard, my order will be 6,3,5,2,4,7,1. That way, there's always ribs on either side of the one I'm working on. This may be a waste of time, but it will make me feel better.
•Oh, before the inboardmost rib, I need to make sure I get the vent line in there, with the AN fitting, before bending and flaring the tubing to fit over the AN male fitting in the inboard rib.
•Install anti-hangup brackets, trap door, float sender (have to move this to 2nd bay) and flop tubes.
•Close tank.
•Have beer in celebration.
</ol>
Oops, looks like number 8 will occur after each step (but only at the end of each night.)

Okay, let's get to the pictures. I got out my new kitchen scale, the small and large popsicle sticks, rubber gloves (snap!), MEK, electrical tape, and paper towels out. Let's see, what am I forgetting?

Oh YEAH, the Proseal. I guess it's really called FlameMaster tank sealant, but I'm going to continue to call it proseal.

Also, I have 900 or so solo cups from my earlier partying days, and I thought those would be great for mixing proseal. (Caveat: when the directions tell you to swirl some rivets in MEK to remove the manufacturing oils, don't use solo cups, the MEK burns through the white coating and the whole mixture becomes milky. Ask me how I know...at least I did a test before throwing in some rivets.)

First thing, I laid the stiffeners in place without rivets just to see where I needed to protect the rib lines with electrical tape.
Okay, let's start getting messy.


Anyway, I got some rivets soaked in MEK and then dumped them out on the paper towel.
asdf


I did a THOROUGH cleaning of both the skin and the stiffeners, then said a little prayer and got to proseal mixing.

I started with 2 oz. of white stuff and then added 0.2 oz of black stuff. (The picture reads 2.3 because I kept the popsicle stick.)
Oh, and I barely caught myself before using the white-stuff-soaked stick to scoop out some black stuff. That was close.


Anyway, I did my first batch in a solo cup, and I've decided to immediately switch to something wider and lower-lipped. In mixing the proseal, you basically push all the proseal up on the walls of the cup, and now you really only have an ounce or so to work with, because you've done a great job of sealing your cup. I feel like I wasted a whole bunch of proseal tonight having left most of it on the walls of the cup. Grrr.)
My first batch was the messiest because while stirring, all my gloved knuckles kept hitting the walls of the cup and gathering proseal.


Moving on, I grabbed a....****...I don't have anything to dab proseal into the dimples of the skin! Umm....Umm...

This cable tie will work! (It actually worked great, very similar to a toothpick that others use.)

Just to test out the process, I dabbed 4 holes of one of the outboard stiffeners, put some rivets in, spread sealant on the stiffener, laid it in place, and backriveted the heck out of it!
Looks okay, but why didn't you clean up the skin (you'll find out later).


Oh man, this stuff is MESSY. After reading a ton of build sites (Bullock's, Oliver's, Beaver's), I was convinced I would make mine really neat compared to their's.

By the end of the night, I felt like I was "arbitrarily slopped all over the place as a sort of voodoo talisman employed to ward off leak demons." (Quote from Rick Galati.)

Anyway, I flipped the skin back over, put a dab of sealant in the rest of the dimples, taped over them all, flipped the skin back over, laid the stiffeners in place and got to backriveting.
Taped, ready to backrivet.

You can see how messy the outside of the skin is going to be.


It went well. The worst part is that by wet setting the rivets (sealant in dimple before inserting rivet), there is proseal all over the rivet on the other side. That means the proseal gets all over your rivet set, and therefore my hands as I steady the set during shooting (watch for my fingerprints later).

After getting all the rivets set, I grabbed more sealant and created fillets around each of the stiffeners.
Yikes, this is not very pretty.


Finally, I filled a little 20cc syringe I got from Target with sealant and encapsulated each rivet. This part worked REALLY well.
Tomorrow, the encapsulations look even better.


As a final note, I followed Bill Repucci's advice and resisted ALL TEMPTATION to wipe off the skin of the tank with MEK after backriveting. Apparently, some MEK might soak under the rivet head and work its way into a leak path. (No Leaks!). I'll try the razor blade trick later, but just so you know, that's why these skins don't look as pretty as Bullock's and Oliver's.
Bill suggests using a razor blade to clean after a week or so.
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Andrew Z.
Engineering Flight Test Pilot/Engineer, CFI-A, CFII, ATP
RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
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  #266  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:34 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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In the end, it was about 2 hours and 78 rivets. not bad for a day's work. It was wicked hot in the garage, and I was in desparate need of some refreshment once inside.
That'll do the trick.


During this whole ordeal, there was proseal everywhere, so I had to get an MEK-soaked towel out and start cleaning up. It broke my rule about not cleaning with MEK until it's cured, but I couldn't leave it the way it was. After cleaning everything up, I made sure I had fresh MEK down on both sides to prevent leaks.

Oh, remember yesterday when I promised you my rivet encapsulation was improving? Check these out!
How awesome are those!?


Wash, rinse, repeat on the fuel cap flange (except I went back to backriveting).

I had to remember to use different sized rivets on different thickness areas of the flange, but I copied Brad Oliver.

On the top and bottom rivets, 2 total, (skinniest part of the flange), I used AN426AD3-4, the adjacent ones (4 total), I used -4.5 rivets, and on the middle 4, I used -5 rivets.
Easy as pie!


UPDATE: Notice anything missing? like the VENT CLIP THAT EVERYONE ALWAYS FORGETS AND I SPENT A WEEK REMINDING MYSELF TO <span style="text-decoration:underline;">NOT FORGET</span>!?

Ugh.

Of course, I had already broken my rule once, so I went ahead and cleaned the top of the skin up.
Looks sooooo good!


The drain flange ended up being okay, too.
Not the prettiest, but you'll never notice while I'm flying.


1.0 hour. 16 rivets. 6 drilled out. (boo!)

Oh, and how great is my girlfriend!? While I was outside slapping sealant all over the garage, she was inside making spaghetti with meat sauce (and fresh basil!).

Life is good.
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Andrew Z.
Engineering Flight Test Pilot/Engineer, CFI-A, CFII, ATP
RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
2018 Dues Paid
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  #267  
Old 10-08-2018, 09:35 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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Post Title: Fixed Right Vent Clip Omission
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Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:00:13 +0000
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By the title, you can tell that I totally forgot the vent clip on the right tank's fuel cap flange.

I spent a week preparing myself, reading everyone's posts on VAF and their build logs, all of which said, "don't forget the vent clip."

Of course, I forgot the vent clip.

Before we get into the proseal again, I got a tool order in from the Yard.

Boelube, safety wire (0.032"), safety wire pliers, a few clecos, a new flush set, and a whole bunch of drill bits.
New toys!


Okay, let's get to fixing that forgotten vent clip.

Surprisingly, after a day or so, it was pretty easy to just pull off the proseal dab I had on the rivet.
The uncovered rivet is on the upper right.


Oh, someone mentioned on VAF that I shouldn't use the blue stuff as electrical tape. I pulled off a few sections to see how it went, and I actually like the way it works. I'll stick with the blue stuff.
Worked okay for me.


Okay, this paragraph represents the 3 times I had to drill out and reinstall the rivet.

Here's the first try. When it set, it was a little proud, and I just couldn't stand for that.
The rivet in question is the lower left one.


After trying two more times, I ended up with this one.

It's pretty great, except for the fact that it's differently colored. (I think that particular rivet came with the practice kit.
I can live with that (barely).


Here's the vent clip side. After reading more, some people who forget this just leave it off, as the next inboard rib is so close.

I figured that Van put it there for a reason.
My clip is a little tall (which means it will be lower), but everyone just bends the very tip up anyway.

The rivet in question is the bottom one. If I still decide to polish the airplane, the rivets will all turn to the same polished color. I just need to remember to get rid of that tiny sliver of proseal sticking out from beneath the head.


Overall, today was a REALLY frustrating day. Didn't set any new rivets, but drilled 3 times.

I guess I have to have days like this so that the other days can be good ones. Onwards and upwards.
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Andrew Z.
Engineering Flight Test Pilot/Engineer, CFI-A, CFII, ATP
RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
2018 Dues Paid
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  #268  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:14 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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I STRONGLY recommend putting in anti-rotation brackets towards the front of the flop tube exit inside the tank. It caused me problems and I had to assess the inside again after I was all finished. See my blog here for info (post 69). Looking good btw, aren't the tanks oh so fun?!?
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  #269  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:40 PM
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Bullseye Bullseye is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarne View Post
I STRONGLY recommend putting in anti-rotation brackets towards the front of the flop tube exit inside the tank.
Hi Jereme. I’ve been posting here from my website from back in the day. That last post was from 2011! I’m going to look tonight to see what I did with them. Thanks for the heads up. (Still have the left tank to build anyway.)
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Andrew Z.
Engineering Flight Test Pilot/Engineer, CFI-A, CFII, ATP
RV-7 in work (See my build log.)
Empennage...Done (except rebuilding the rudder.)
Wings...Halfway complete.
2018 Dues Paid
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  #270  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:01 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
Hi Jereme. I’ve been posting here from my website from back in the day. That last post was from 2011! I’m going to look tonight to see what I did with them. Thanks for the heads up. (Still have the left tank to build anyway.)
Oh wow! Well at any rate if you have to access the inside for this task it wasn't all that difficult, just took time.
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