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  #11  
Old 03-05-2018, 08:04 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
Rob - I don't wish to sound argumentative, however my recent experience (2017) through the Ontario regional office in Toronto provided evidence that the aircraft does not have to be complete.

In our case the engine cowl wasn't in place, nor the windshield. Importantly, on our aircraft the horizontal stabilizer is removable. The photos I provided with the C of R application showed the horizontal stabilizer missing from the airplane.
Good to know, I was under the impression they wanted a photo of the complete aircraft, so they had record of paint scheme, marks, etc. for identification purposes.

Quote:
The intention of the photos is to reflect the location of the registration marks and to provide sufficient visual references to allow an approximate scaling of the registration marks to ensure they are at least close to the required size and of the appropriate font.
Not to be argumentative, but scaling registration marks off a photo is never going to happen. At best, they'll look at the photo and see if things look "about right". TC has contracted MD-RA to take care of the details that need measuring on-site... ie. checking that letters are large enough and in the right place. And yet, i've lost count of the number of RV's i've seen where the registration marks don't meet the size requirements...
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  #12  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:01 PM
Flying Canuck Flying Canuck is offline
 
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Location: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
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I just got an answer from MD-RA on my question (only took a week).

Quote:
Transport Canada requires a 3/4 Side view of the Aircraft. Doesn't have to be fully assembled.
Submitted my application last Friday, no sign of my registration yet
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  #13  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:29 PM
heinz heinz is offline
 
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Location: comox bc
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It sounds to me like the MDRA final inspection was carried out before the aircraft was complete. The regulation requires the aircraft to be presented for the final inspection, ready for flight.
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  #14  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:41 PM
Flying Canuck Flying Canuck is offline
 
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Location: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
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This isn't about the final inspection, obviously the aircraft needs to be ready for flight before final inspection. I'll need all inspection panels and cowlings off, but everything else on.

The question was the level of completeness required to submit the application for registration. Registration needs to be on hand at final inspection and there is a fairly long wait time for this. Final inspection can't even be scheduled until the registration is received.
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Dynon SkyView HDX, IO-320 and WW 200RV C/S. Final inspection days away!
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:38 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is online now
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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To add another layer of clarification with respect to the order of operations.

In order...
1) apply to MD-RA for final inspection... MD-RA will then send you an information package which includes instructions to help with applying to Transport Canada for a Certificate of Registration

2) apply to Transport Canada for a Certificate of Registration - this is where the photos are required - so this is well in advance of the aircraft being fully ready for for final inspection

3) Once the C of R is in hand, the MD-RA final inspection can take place.

Remember, the outcome of MD-RA final inspection is the issuance of a Special Certificate of Airworthiness. An airplane can't have a CofA unless and until it's registered. MD-RA won't do the final inspection until the aircraft is registered, simply because the presence of the C of R is a mandatory prerequisite for them to be able to issue a Special C of A.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2018, 03:12 PM
Flying Canuck Flying Canuck is offline
 
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That's exactly how I understand it too. Of course each step comes with it's own fee schedule. And the time between steps is a big unknown. I received my authorisation for Final Inspection with the registration package in less than 48 hours after faxing in my application for Final Inspection (and paying $1300). The application for registration is another $110. The wait now for my C of R will take as long as it does. Then it's just a matter of scheduling the inspection directly with the assigned inspector (same local guy who did my pre-cover). After successful inspection, the Special C of A is supposed to happen within a couple of weeks.

In short, lots of time and money. Neither of which is foreign to this build your own airplane game.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2018, 03:23 PM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
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Anybody know why MD-RA's fees are climbing so high? Hopefully the inspectors are getting paid as I cannot see running the office requiring these high fees.
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2018, 03:48 PM
elev666 elev666 is offline
 
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Location: Kincardine Ont,Can
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That's exactly how I understand it too. Of course each step comes with it's own fee schedule. And the time between steps is a big unknown. I received my authorisation for Final Inspection with the registration package in less than 48 hours after faxing in my application for Final Inspection (and paying $1300). The application for registration is another $110. The wait now for my C of R will take as long as it does. Then it's just a matter of scheduling the inspection directly with the assigned inspector (same local guy who did my pre-cover). After successful inspection, the Special C of A is supposed to happen within a couple of weeks.

Just traveled this road 20 months ago and have a precover inspection tomorrow, I nearly fell off my chair when they asked for $610. for the first inspection,
Heaven forbid I fall in love with another registration , cost $100 to reserve the first one and I'm scared to ask this round !
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2018, 09:18 PM
RV7 To Go RV7 To Go is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron B. View Post
Anybody know why MD-RA's fees are climbing so high? Hopefully the inspectors are getting paid as I cannot see running the office requiring these high fees.
Here in the Toronto area the inspectors are volunteers. They only get paid mileage for the inspection. Not sure why the costs are so high.

The info on the data plate has to match what was written on the Letter of Intent when applying for the final inspection. I was not aware of this and engraved my plate with the model RV-7 but my letter of intent did not have the dash. I was allowed to submit an amendment to the Letter of Intent instead of changing the plate.

Both TC and the MD-RA are very anal about the paperwork! Everything must match or they will hold up the process.

Al
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2018, 10:49 AM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is online now
 
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To be clear... MD-RA openly tells us that inspectors work on a volunteer basis. In the background the reality is they work for a fixed per-inspection fee which is built into the total inspection fee. Also of importance is the concept that the "head office" guys who do the final review on inspection data packages sent in by the field inspectors are also on a fixed-fee basis (a.k.a. piecework). I discovered this information through conversations with retired inspectors who no longer have a stake in the game.

This information is not widely known and is considered by the MD-RA to be sensitive. I share it here because, frankly, I can't understand why there is any need to hide the fact that our inspectors do not work for free (and I fundamentally disagree with this dishonest policy). Having some insight into the fee schedule, I can say they don't work for free, but they sure don't work for much more than minimum wage (and usually much less) if they're really doing what they're supposed to do with the inspections and paperwork.

I have the utmost respect for our MD-RA inspectors. In the case of the MD-RA inspections performed on our aircraft, both of the inspectors added real value to the process - it wasn't just a rubber stamp. As a result of having gone through pre-cover and final inspections I wouldn't hesitate to fork over the fees currently charged. I would, however, like to get better value from the fees paid to the head office management. They are on piece work and yet seem to feel no incentive to move paperwork along in a timely fashion.

Be aware, also, that Transport Canada is reviewing ALL current aviation fees (for everything from aircraft registration to pilot medical processing to who-knows-what) and is planning on adding new fees for services we now obtain without additional cost.

If one thinks having one's airplane inspected by Transport Canada would be cheaper than having it done by an MD-RA, well, I suspect one might be in for a bit of a surprise.
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