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  #131  
Old 01-02-2018, 04:23 PM
Shane@uAvionix Shane@uAvionix is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larco View Post
So if we hard wire it to a 330 instead of relying on the wifi we will be rid of the
altitude problem?
Yes, the 330 will send the Pressure Alt and Squawk via serial, unlike the 327. most transponders like the Sandia, Trig, SL70, 330's, and many more actually send both Press Alt and Squawk via serial. The GTX-327 just does not support this.
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  #132  
Old 01-02-2018, 06:18 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
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Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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So what are you guys saying... I have GTX-327 in my RV-12 and was planning UAVIONIX ECHO-ATU-20 just sniffing the xponder instead of hard wire connection. I fly mostly in MODE C local.

This still a good plan?
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Last edited by Piper J3 : 01-02-2018 at 06:20 PM.
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  #133  
Old 01-02-2018, 10:15 PM
tommylewis's Avatar
tommylewis tommylewis is online now
 
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Posts: 735
Default 327s here also

I have two planes with 327 xpdr and EchoUAT and I am pleased with the system. If you have an issue with the "sniffer" contact support and find out how to adjust the sniffer threshold.
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  #134  
Old 01-02-2018, 10:23 PM
NM Doug NM Doug is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 155
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Ron, the threshold adjustment is not in the install manual, but Uavionix support walked me through it. I signed up and filed a ticket online, and they got back to me within a day on this. They asked me some questions and tailored their guidance based on my answers.

And yes, AEG is a great place!

Cheers,
Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by RONSIM View Post
for the encoded altitude --- I do not find that in the install manual.

Thanks,

Ron (former AEG tenant/instructor -- really miss Albuquerque)
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  #135  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:45 PM
ArVeeNiner's Avatar
ArVeeNiner ArVeeNiner is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane@uAvionix View Post
the Plug and Play harness built for Dallas Avionics is specific to the ADS600EXP model as it uses a DB-9 serial plug. The 600-B model has far more optional scenarios to predict a standardized patch harness.

Ultimately there are only 6-wires on the EchoUAT to connect from that NavWorx plug. We'd only be using 4-5 wires in most cases from the 32 pin serial plug.

1-Ground
2-Power
3-Com1-TX
4-Com1-RX
5-Com2-TX
6-Com2-RX
Shane:

I have an EXP Navworx in my plane and I just unpacked my Echo UAT today. Regarding the included plug and play harness, I received a pig tail harness with a connector that plugs into the Echo unit. Shouldn’t there be another connector at the other end or is this the extent of plug and play harness? Maybe I didn’t receive the right harness?

EDIT: It turns out they didn’t send me the right kit. DA is sending out the replacement now.

I’m getting cold feet regarding the disappearing nearby traffic. This would be a deal breaker for me. Are there any plans to address this?
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Last edited by ArVeeNiner : 01-05-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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  #136  
Old 01-03-2018, 10:53 PM
ArVeeNiner's Avatar
ArVeeNiner ArVeeNiner is offline
 
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Location: San Jose, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimO View Post

The intermittent traffic is also one I've experienced, where the airplanes show up, then disappear, and then show up...but at the same time, traffic 50 miles away is showing up rock solid stable. Or, sometimes all the traffic becomes intermittent. This could be due to the non-filtering as well, as once they split the batches of traffic up, different EFIS systems or even ipad apps may handle things differently.

And while I was glad to hear that GRT gives the option to filter traffic, I think that should not be an expected function of the EFIS. The reason being that if you are overloading the RS232 interface with dozens of unnecessary traffic targets, you are bound to miss some. I want to miss the far ones, NOT the near ones. RS232 even at 115,200 baud, can only handle so many planes at a time. At 38,400 baud, my system can't handle even nearly as many as 115,200. So they need to build a system that prefilters.
I had reliable traffic on NavWorX, so I know it's possible. It's all just a different programming paradigm.

We'll have to see how it goes.
I use FlyQ with my EXP box and it has a filtering function which I have turned on. Everything functions great with the Navworx unit..no disappearing traffic. Is it reasonable for me to expect the same performance with the Echo unit?
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  #137  
Old 01-10-2018, 12:33 PM
TimO TimO is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 429
Default More updates on my NavWorX replacement with EchoUAT

The past few days I've had a few flights with the Echo UAT and am starting to see a trend. I'm curious as to how it is for other people as well.

With the Echo I'm seeing lots and lots of times that traffic randomly comes and goes. I see it on the ipad and there may be a bunch of planes on the north side of a class Bravo area, then a minute later those flash out and maybe there will just be a couple of random targets but a few seconds later there are a large group on the south side of a class Bravo. So it appears that traffic is very intermittent.

Bench testing the unit with a "Ted" stubby antenna, I find that a stratux unit (I have a Seattle Avionics Merlin), has quite a bit better reception range, but that's just a side note.

One thing that I've been plagued with much more often than with the NavWorX is with ghost traffic in my location. I am used to a ghost callout for "traffic" maybe once every month or two, when flying around class B areas, but I now get ghost traffic multiple times on some flights. Yesterday I probably had ghost alerts 6-8 times in less than an hour.

Based on the above, I'm thinking that there is not nearly the processing/filtering being done that the NavWorX did. As you may have noticed from a previous post, another RV builder and I have been working to build a filter/converter box for the GDL90 data coming out of the Echo. Right now the output isn't in GDL90 format, but it would be easy to do so. But in the process of logging GDL90 data, and feeding it in, processing it, and outputting it, we are finding multiple things that can easily be improved in software.

Here's a rundown of a few off the top of my head:

Coasting: By using a short-term table of nearby targets, sorted by distance, and coasted, we are able to greatly reduce the blinking out of these targets. You keep track of Vertical speed, speed, altitude, and track of the targets, and when they disappear, if they were in your table (we keep track of 31 nearby targets), you use their previous reports to generate traffic output that would continue their previous trajectory. We have it set to a user definable setting so you can receive projected traffic positions for an extra 15-30 seconds after it blinks out on the UAT. If it pops back up, the position updates and everything syncs back up, as each target is tracked by Mode S code.

With the sorting by distance, I only send to my EFIS a max of 31 targets, and they are only the 31 nearest ones that are heard. If a new one pops up, it displaces the furthest one from the list. This coasting really makes the system much more useable since you don't constantly lose and regain targets.

Ghosting improvements: By keeping track of ownship track/speed/altitude and comparing it to any targets within a certain very close range (a few hundred feet), you can look at that targets track/speed/altitude and if the parameters closely match yours, and the position is within a couple hundred feet, you can blow it away and eliminate the ghosting.

COM Port Speed matching: One nice thing about doing this by a post processing box is that I was finally able to use my GTX wire connection for the UAT. If you remember in previous posts, I said that one of the pains of the box is since the ports aren't asynchronous, you can't have a 9600 baud transponder connection, and a 38,400 baud EFIS GDL90 connection on COM1 TX/RX, and you are fairly locked into using 115,200 baud on COM2 with the SkyFYX GPS, so that eliminates using a 38,400 baud EFIS on that port. But, by post processing it, it made it possible to push the GDL90 at 115,200 baud to this box, process it and filter it, and then output it at 38,400 baud, allowing the box to be integrated into COM2. That frees up COM1 for use at 9600 baud with the transponder. Once I did that, my squawk code was able to change immediately when I tested it. Before this, I tried in-flight quickly entering 1234 and noticed that the UAT did not receive the update. This was on climb-out, and I didn't wait a long time to see if it would finally get the squawk, as it was not my assigned code, but it did illustrate that you may have a delay in switching squawk codes by the monitor function.

Max Intruders: Another nice feature is being able to limit the output a little to not clutter the screen with too many intruders. I can user configure a setting to display any number from 1-31 of intruders. Once you get near the top of that range, you can make your EFIS so messy that as I was flying around MSP airspace, you could barely read the airport info or airspace info within the class B area with as much traffic as their was. Having a way to limit counts is a great thing...having it sorted by distance is crucial then though.

Distance filter: Rather than just pick up traffic from whatever the default distance is, I have a user-defined variable for setting the maximum target distance, so it does not pass on or display anyone further out than that. This keeps down the unnecessary processing of the other targets, because if someone is over 100nm away, you really don't need to know about them.

Anyway, this is just a little of what I've bee working on and finding, but I'm curious as to how common this ghosting is for others using the Echo, and how much disappearing traffic you have. Those things should be fixable as Uavionix puts more time into developing the software, so hopefully if you are having issues, you can see those things improve down the road.
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Last edited by TimO : 01-10-2018 at 01:44 PM.
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  #138  
Old 01-11-2018, 12:41 PM
DennisRhodes DennisRhodes is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Taylorsville, Ga
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane@uAvionix View Post
Yes, the 330 will send the Pressure Alt and Squawk via serial, unlike the 327. most transponders like the Sandia, Trig, SL70, 330's, and many more actually send both Press Alt and Squawk via serial. The GTX-327 just does not support this.
Shane, I take it that the GTX 330 ( not upgraded to ES and or older software) can be serial connected to the ECHO via COM 1 and with that the ECHO will use the P altitude and Squawk code from the RS232 com rather that the transponder output sniffer. I believe the manual shows a separate set up for the 330. Am I understanding you correctly? I am beginning to see some GTX330 on the classified now for less that 1K.
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  #139  
Old 01-11-2018, 02:28 PM
Fred.Stucklen's Avatar
Fred.Stucklen Fred.Stucklen is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brooksville, FL
Posts: 320
Default GTX330 and EchoUAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisRhodes View Post
Shane, I take it that the GTX 330 ( not upgraded to ES and or older software) can be serial connected to the ECHO via COM 1 and with that the ECHO will use the P altitude and Squawk code from the RS232 com rather that the transponder output sniffer. I believe the manual shows a separate set up for the 330. Am I understanding you correctly? I am beginning to see some GTX330 on the classified now for less that 1K.
This is the setup that I have installed in my RV-7A, replacing the Navworx EXP unit. It tested out OK by the FAA test site. But the original harness, that was supposed to be compatible with the EXP air frame wiring, had to be changed. Instead of the EchoUAT COM2 going to pin #3 of the DB-9, it had to be moved to Pin #1. Then follow the EchoUAT setup process for the GTX330 transponder.

I too am seeing erratic traffic with the EchoUAT system. It doesn't perform like the Navworx 600EXP unit. Yes I see traffic, but sometimes traffic within a mile doesn't appear, or suddenly disappears. Not liking it at all. Definitely not a reliable traffic indicator, especially when compared to the Navworx EXP unit...

I'll be testing out a freeflight Lite system this weekend. It too has the GDL90 serial interface to outside devices. I'd like to see how this unit compares to the uAvionics EchoUAT unit....
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  #140  
Old 01-12-2018, 07:56 AM
Shane@uAvionix Shane@uAvionix is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Waxahachie, TX
Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisRhodes View Post
Shane, I take it that the GTX 330 ( not upgraded to ES and or older software) can be serial connected to the ECHO via COM 1 and with that the ECHO will use the P altitude and Squawk code from the RS232 com rather that the transponder output sniffer. I believe the manual shows a separate set up for the 330. Am I understanding you correctly? I am beginning to see some GTX330 on the classified now for less that 1K.
Yes, the GTX330 will pass the Squawk and Pressure Altitude to the EchoUAT over the serial wire. We've set many customers up successfully with this.

For others concerned with low % fails on reports:
Keep in mind that the ADS-B spec supports a device sending GPS altitude if Pressure Alt is not available for a period of time. There seems to be a lot of concern about low % of fails outside of Rule Airspace... defined as below.

Please understand that the required performance marks on these reports are specifically noted for these airspaces due and are not reasonable for tests outside the "Rule Airspace", or at least within very close proximity to it. Here is a basic analogy... Its like paying for 10mb internet service in your home using a WiFi router, then walking 200+ feet away from your house and expecting the full 10mb service speed... it simply won't happen. You've increased the distance outside the intended zone and put many variables, buildings (Terrain and Altitude) into the mix.

Under the rule, ADS-B Out performance is only required to operate to the performance report levels in:

1. Class A, B, and C airspace.
2. Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface.
3. Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.
4. Around those airports identified in 14 CFR part 91, Appendix D.

If you look at your performance reports on the beginning page, you'll see Duration, Mod and Rule. The time in the Rule field is your amount of time in Rule Airspace. This should technically be a majority of your flight to ensure performance marks are hit.

I hope this clears up a little confusion.
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