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  #31  
Old 12-28-2017, 10:58 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Not sure of your equipment, but on my GRT EFIS the HSI can display the GPS deviation while also showing the vor as an RMI pointer.
I have 2 bearing pointers that can be slaved to any of my nav sources, but I'm not sure for a VOR approach that's a suitable sub for a CDI in the context of monitoring the underlying NAVAID during the approach.

Thoughts?
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  #32  
Old 12-29-2017, 05:20 AM
Tooch Tooch is offline
 
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Location: Amelia, Va
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Default GTN 625

I went through the same process as Mark33 is now going through. I didn't want to put in a 650 due to cost and installation. I was getting conflicting info. I knew it was legal to fly IFR without a VOR but could i get a checkride in my plane if I only had the WAAS GPS? So before I did any update work to my panel, I called the examiner who would do my checkride and ask him if he would not only do my checkride in my RV but could we do it if I had no VOR. He said as long as I could show him that i could do a precision approach then it would be fine. So my plane has no panel mounted VOR but I do have a sporty's portable mounted on a ball mount, hooked to ship's power with battery backup. Here is a picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fruqtgw4ac...Panel.JPG?dl=0
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  #33  
Old 12-29-2017, 10:46 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Default FAA legal term?

So, the ACS (nee PTS) says the furnished aircraft must be capable of doing at least 2 non-precision approaches using different navaids.
What does that mean?
Is gps a navaid, so a second approach must not use gps?
Or is LNAV a “navaid”, and is LPV a second “navaid”?
At least the ACS is clear on the required precision approach: either an ILS or an LPV with DA below 300’ agl is acceptable.
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  #34  
Old 12-29-2017, 03:33 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, La.
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Originally Posted by Tooch View Post
I went through the same process as Mark33 is now going through. I didn't want to put in a 650 due to cost and installation. I was getting conflicting info. I knew it was legal to fly IFR without a VOR but could i get a checkride in my plane if I only had the WAAS GPS? So before I did any update work to my panel, I called the examiner who would do my checkride and ask him if he would not only do my checkride in my RV but could we do it if I had no VOR. He said as long as I could show him that i could do a precision approach then it would be fine. So my plane has no panel mounted VOR but I do have a sporty's portable mounted on a ball mount, hooked to ship's power with battery backup. Here is a picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fruqtgw4ac...Panel.JPG?dl=0
That’s great that he was willing to work with you. I talked to an instructor today and he said that due to the fact that avionics are changing so quickly that both he and the examiner has to get somewhat creative when working with someone that wants to both train in their own airplane and take their check-ride in it. He said that as long as my airplane was equipped with a WAAS GPS that he was sure that we’d be able to use it for both training and check-out.
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  #35  
Old 12-29-2017, 04:05 PM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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I guess I don't understand the desire to use only GPS for training and the checkride. IFR equipment is not the place to get cheap IMO. Although 99% of the time I fly IFR only using GPS as the Nav source, I like having more options in the form of VOR/GS/LOC capability--when in IMC options are good and I'm glad I learned how to use all of them in training.

FWIW, I've been on a GPS approach expecting an LPV annunciation and only got LNAV. I've also launched into an area NOTAM'd with GPS degradation on a few occasions. No way I'd have done that without an alternate means of navigation (I have a GTN 650 and SL 30).
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  #36  
Old 12-29-2017, 04:34 PM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Auburntsts View Post
I guess I don't understand the desire to use only GPS for training and the checkride. IFR equipment is not the place to get cheap IMO. Although 99% of the time I fly IFR only using GPS as the Nav source, I like having more options in the form of VOR/GS/LOC capability--when in IMC options are good and I'm glad I learned how to use all of them in training.

FWIW, I've been on a GPS approach expecting an LPV annunciation and only got LNAV. I've also launched into an area NOTAM'd with GPS degradation on a few occasions. No way I'd have done that without an alternate means of navigation (I have a GTN 650 and SL 30).
All good points, and I totally understand those points, but the two things that I have to keep in mind regarding which equipment to install in my airplane is 1. budge and 2. how often I’ll actually be flying in IMC conditions. I know that a lot of people like yourself file IFR pretty much every time they fly but I really can’t envision myself doing that....but I could be wrong and maybe once I get my ticket I may want to do it all the time as well. However, if I can complete my training and check-ride with GPS based equipment, then I think I’ll go that route for now.
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  #37  
Old 12-29-2017, 05:50 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Mark33 View Post
All good points, and I totally understand those points, but the two things that I have to keep in mind regarding which equipment to install in my airplane is 1. budget and 2. how often I’ll actually be flying in IMC conditions. .
How often is not relevant, if the unexpected happens to happen to you when you're IMC.
Obviously, no one can be equipped for every conceivable failure. But to what degree you have backups (EFIS failure? GPS failure? Pitot tube failure? alternator failure?..... the list goes on) is a very real, but subjective, judgement call. Personally, as a CFII, I would decline to fly in IMC in your airplane, equipped as proposed. But it's your call to make, for yourself and any passengers.
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  #38  
Old 12-29-2017, 07:16 PM
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DakotaHawk DakotaHawk is offline
 
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I gave a lot of thought to my panel design - particularly the backups available in case xxx equipment failed. I actually ran a spreadsheet to show single points of failure and methods to work around those failure points.

For example, I have my Nav and GPS in one box (IFD440 NAV/Comm/GPS). My backup if the box goes dark is my Dynon GPS, which has it's own separate WAAS GPS antenna, and Dynon Comm radio. My aircraft electrical bus is backed up by battery backups on the EFIS.

My worst case scenario is a failure of my ADHRS. I only have one, and I could install another (and probably will), but for now, if my ADHRS fails, I have a Stratus II and Foreflight, which provides GPS based attitude, altitude, and speed.
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  #39  
Old 12-29-2017, 07:57 PM
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donaziza donaziza is offline
 
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Default 3 ADHRS

Scott, I've always heard you've gotta have 3 ADHRS. If you have 2, and one fails, which one is it? With 3, you have a "tie breaker"
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  #40  
Old 12-29-2017, 09:46 PM
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DakotaHawk DakotaHawk is offline
 
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Originally Posted by donaziza View Post
Scott, I've always heard you've gotta have 3 ADHRS. If you have 2, and one fails, which one is it? With 3, you have a "tie breaker"
I think there's a huge "fine line" between the basic Cessna 152 six-pack with vacuum/electric gauges on one side of the "line", and a Boeing 777 with glass panels, multiple EFIS, multiple ADHRS, multiple NAV radios, etc. Most of us are striking a balance somewhere in between.

In an ideal world, I would install that second Dynon ADHRS in my RV. Then I would have two ADHRS installed plus the Stratus II/Foreflight ADHRS to break the tie.

Even without the third ADHRS, my RV is better equipped than 90% of the General Aviation IFR fleet out there.
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