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Oshkosh arrival - How many take the high pattern?

Chino Tom

Well Known Member
Patron
I was reviewing the OSH Notam last night and was thinking back to the previous years (5) that I had flown my -6 there. This year the -8 heh will make its first trip. Every previous arrival had been in the low and slow pattern (1800 msl, 90 kts). My last trip was in 2006 (6 of us from SoCal in trail) and what seems to be the norm, we were following an aircraft that was maybe going 70 kts (a Mooney Mite this time). Now 70 kts in an RV is no problem but it was 90 deg and by the time we landed and taxied to parking, most of us with carbs could barely keep our engines running due to the gas boiling in them! Heat soaking the engine for so long wasn't much fun. My question is, how many of you take the high road, 2300 msl, 135 kts?
 
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Tom,

Last year I took the low road and still had a difficult time getting it down where the controller wanted me. I had to slip it from downwind through to very short final to hit the spot he wanted.

The -9 can fly so slow that this isn't an issue and I didn't have the heat problem you experianced.

I would be afraid that if I flew up high, I might be in the next county by the time I got my FP -9 slowed down and low enough to land.
 
I would be afraid that if I flew up high, I might be in the next county by the time I got my FP -9 slowed down and low enough to land.

But with a big fat heavy CS prop up front, I can tell you that it wouldn't be a problem. With all the drag out, we easily almost parachute down onto the numbers from pattern altitude (or above).
 
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I'm not concerned with the flying part, the RV can be an elevator if you want
it to! In the previous times arriving at OSH it seems the low pattern was
routed to 18/36 (although in 2006, one of those Czech jet trainers cut in
front of us on final to 36L, we had to go around and land on 36R). My question
is has anyone used the high pattern? It seems logical that the
higher speed traffic would be directed to the other runway 09/27.
 
Tom,

Last year I took the low road and still had a difficult time getting it down where the controller wanted me. I had to slip it from downwind through to very short final to hit the spot he wanted.

The -9 can fly so slow that this isn't an issue and I didn't have the heat problem you experianced.

I would be afraid that if I flew up high, I might be in the next county by the time I got my FP -9 slowed down and low enough to land.

I agree totally. I am taking the low road in this matter. :)
 
Low road for me...

I agree totally. I am taking the low road in this matter. :)

Me too! I have heard several people chastised for flying the high route in an RV. Bluntly, if you can't fly an RV at 90 knots, you shouldn't be anywhere near OSH.

John Clark ATP, CFI
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
I took the high route last year, but only because the controller said "if you can do 135kts get up to 2300 for me". Inbound I went over two v-tail Bonanzas and a Mooney who were down below doing 90kts. Quite honestly I felt pretty lame at that point.
 
Me too! I have heard several people chastised for flying the high route in an RV. Bluntly, if you can't fly an RV at 90 knots, you shouldn't be anywhere near OSH.

John Clark ATP, CFI
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA


I agree John, I believe the NOTAM says somthing about flying the higher route ONLY if your plane cannot maintain the lower speeds.

Too soon for me to start reading the NOTAM, I won't be able to sleep at night getting all excited about OSH. :D
 
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Lucky

I'm not concerned with the flying part, the RV can be an elevator if you want
it to! In the previous times arriving at OSH it seems the low pattern was
routed to 18/36 (although in 2006, one of those Czech jet trainers cut in
front of us on final to 36L, we had to go around and land on 36R). My question
is has anyone used the high pattern? It seems logical that the
higher speed traffic would be directed to the other runway 09/27.

Two years ago Lucky did the high approach after he was cut off in the low pattern. It worked well for him too! I might try it this year but so far I have had no problems low and slow.
 
I really don't see the point of taking the low route, especially if you want to be better prepared if the fan up front decides to take a siesta. Last year I took the high arrival and it was a breeze, no LSAs, J-3's, C-140s, etc. to deal with until the base leg.
 
High route

We took the high route with our RV7a on the last two years and had no problem with it. It does have a CS prop. We asked for 36 and got it both times.
 
From the EAA...

Altitudes and Airspeeds
As you begin the VFR Arrival Procedure from Ripon to Fisk, maintain 1,800? msl and 90 kts; if unable, maintain 2,300? msl and 135 kts.

John Clark
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Jeff Point speak up

I'm sure Jeff will give his view as a long time volunteer at Osh in the Homebuilt parking area. I was told the upper level was designed for the Lancair, Glasair type of plane that cannot do the 90 kts. I've even heard of people that have been put into the hold to get back in the proper line.

I suggest following the Notam and not make these folks jobs any harder than they already have it. They are used to RV's being in the lower flow, lets stay there. Just my thoughts.
 
Me too! I have heard several people chastised for flying the high route in an RV. <snip> John Clark ATP, CFI
Me three ;-) I've heard RVers getting 'spanked' by the contollers for taking the high road on more than one occassion. I believe, as is typical with the FAA, it will depend/vary on who you get for controllers on the day you arrive :D Rosie
 
As much as I hate to get stuck behind a low/slow airplane with a pilot who logs all 20 of his annual hours going to and from Oshkosh, I have to agree with the guys who say "let's play by the rules". I remember reading somewhere in the voluminous writings on Oshkosh arrivals that the high pattern is for those who CAN"T maintain 90 knots, and that folks who just decide to do it can be sent to the back of the line. I'd rather that folsk think of RV'ers in general as folks who play by the rules.

Paul
 
You kind of have to weigh your comfort level with the "really" slow aircraft that are sometimes in line. Just depends on the luck of the draw, I suppose.

Let's face it, some of the old sluggers can't even make 90kts going straight down and consequently you find yourself overtaking an Aircoupe or Champ (no offense) that is holding up everybody else. Is that safe?

Two years ago I took the high route just because of my previous experience in being cutoff by slow/confused traffic down low. The controller never mentioned the transgression and gave me 36L.

I'll think about it this year, but I'm inclined to stay higher and faster.

Chris
 
OK Darwin, here I am. I'm late, but only because I was up in Oshkosh checking things out. It's starting to come together.

As for the arrival- the NOTAM clearly states that the high pattern is for those who cannot fly the low pattern, not those who don't want to. However, many are going to try to do it anyway, which is OK. HOWEVER if you do so, you had better be ready to drop down to the low/ slow pattern if the controller orders you to. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't, but you had better have the skills to do it if you have to.

Yes I know what it is like to follow a T-craft on the Fisk arrival in my -6. Not fun but, as others have said, if you can't do it, you don't belong anywhere near Oshkosh. Harsh but true.
 
There are several other arrivals into Oshkosh for other purposes so just because you don't see a problem with more traffic in the high pattern, you dont have the "Big Picture."

I have flown the low and slow route in the Rocket. An RV will easily fly at 90 mph much less 90 kts, and if you get behind a J-3 at 75 mph, then S turn.... Or better yet, if you see a Cub over the lake make an orbit and let someone else follow him, get behind something you know you can stay behind....

The books says "unable" If the hi route gets too much traffic in it, it balls up the other arrivals. As others have said, if you are not comfortable flying slow and near other airplanes then Osh is not for you.....

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
 
As others have said, if you are not comfortable flying slow and near other airplanes then Osh is not for you.....

Amen...if you are a first timer to Osh this year stay VERY alert and keep your eyes moving. Occasionally you will be lucky and there won't be much traffic around at the time you arrive. But most of the time, particularly if you plan on arriving the Sunday before the show starts and the weather is good, the sky will be saturated with airplanes. Let's be careful out there..........
 
It seems like a temp problem by being low and slow followed by a long trip thru the grass justifies being high and fast to me. The PIC should base the decision on the "Operational considerations" relative to his or her own situation.
 
High or Low?

I'll just share a couple of my experiences with both routes. I have flown both routes in the RV-10.
I have had two occasions when I had to turn out of the low route because of very slow moving high wings. Not sure what it was but I do not think it was doing 60 mph so be careful of that as well, and don't think twice about starting over rather than listening to your stall warning the whole way.

I have been in holding patterns a couple of times when both runways were shut down for a little while and when they opened it up they asked for all the planes "that could maintain 135 knots". I pushed the throttle up and had no problem. I thought that was pretty smart of them to "wet" the system.

I have also heard them shut down the upper route when they only had one runway open. I guess there were just too many planes in the 90 knot line.

In the RV the 90 knot line is very manageable and I'm sure the controllers prefer running just one line. I think the FISKE RIPON approach should be in that book "1000 Places To See Before You Die"

If you don't want to deal with it at all just show up Friday afternoon and you can land at Oshkosh like to would land at any other airport.

See you there!
 
Bluntly, if you can't fly an RV at 90 knots, you shouldn't be anywhere near OSH.


I start a month ahead of OSH week flying my return to the airport from 20 miles out at 90 kts. Therefore I have done it 15-20 times before flying it at the Big Show. Good practice. My 6A (180hp fixed pitch) flies great at 90 kts.
 
If you don't want to deal with it at all just show up Friday afternoon and you can land at Oshkosh like to would land at any other airport.
Good data points Scott, and good advice about bailing out if you don't like what you see. Like a go-around on a botched landing, there is no shame there.

As for arriving on Friday, this used to work. However, as of last year (or the year before- I forget, it's early and I haven't had any coffee yet) the NOTAM goes into effect on Friday instead of Saturday. I think this was done to give the controllers an extra day to get up to speed, but it means the full Fisk arrival is in place at 6AM Friday morning. However, traffic is very light then and you could have the while thing to yourself.
 
We aren't supposed to

An RV will easily fly at 90 mph much less 90 kts, and if you get behind a J-3 at 75 mph, then S turn....

From this years NOTAM: Emphasis Items Maintain a minimum of ? mile in-trail
spacing behind the aircraft you are following ? no S-turns.
Then later:
If you have to ?S-turn? to follow an aircraft, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and find another aircraft to follow that matches your speed.
 
From this years NOTAM: Emphasis Items Maintain a minimum of ? mile in-trail
spacing behind the aircraft you are following ? no S-turns.
Then later:
If you have to ?S-turn? to follow an aircraft, break off the procedure; return to Ripon; and find another aircraft to follow that matches your speed.

If you get a chance, spend some ground time watching for RVs flying the high/fast approach in. Most seem to carry the proper speed onto short final and then really slow down (usually by flattening the prop). It generally causes things to jam up behind them as most of the aircraft using this approach have much higher touchdown speeds. I'd much rather be one of the faster planes in line rather than causing someone behind me to go around or worry about them over-running me on the ground. If you're not comfortable flying near MCA, please practice.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP
 
Inside of NOTAM cover it states ,Pilots are REQUIRED to adhere to ALL published OSH arrival procedures. On page four it states Maintain 90 knots at 1800 or max cruise speed if less then 90 knots if UNABLE, maintain 135 knots at 2300.If you fly an RV at 2300' you are NOT LEGAL.
 
My mistake

As for arriving on Friday, this used to work. However, as of last year (or the year before- I forget, it's early and I haven't had any coffee yet) the NOTAM goes into effect on Friday instead of Saturday. I think this was done to give the controllers an extra day to get up to speed, but it means the full Fisk arrival is in place at 6AM Friday morning. However, traffic is very light then and you could have the while thing to yourself.

I'm sorry about that, your right, we arrived on Thursday afternoon last year.
Here are some picture that show how empty it was.
Another cool thing that you can do on Thursday and Friday is drive your car right to the plane. They typically have no problem with it until Sunday but don't quote me on that. I just know we have done it the last two years.

345463996_N3zAo-L.jpg


345465982_gNdQF-L.jpg


Plenty of parking in the "RV Lot" on Thursday.
345864463_fjUT3-L.jpg
 
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