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Crow Enterprises - harnesses

If you call Crow instead of using the website, they will be happy to accommodate your request...

Give them a call. I recently ordered a set directly from them and they came without the shoulder pads as ordered. I called and Mrs. Crow answered and said the correct replacements would be in the mail that day (they were) and sorry for the mistake and no need to send the wrong ones back. I love dealing with companies like that!

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Rear Seat Belt Attach

I'll be making the bushings and spreading the attach points to accept the 3/16" thick Crow brackets. Could not find any mention of the F-857D&E offset bars on VAF that the plans for the 8 say to use to attach the rear seat belts. The offset bars look like they were designed to have the seat belt attach clear the arms of the flap actuator.

It looks likes you could get away without using the F-857s and simply bolt the Crow brackets in directly.

What have others done with rear seat attach of Crows in an 8?
 
I'll be making the bushings and spreading the attach points to accept the 3/16" thick Crow brackets. Could not find any mention of the F-857D&E offset bars on VAF that the plans for the 8 say to use to attach the rear seat belts. The offset bars look like they were designed to have the seat belt attach clear the arms of the flap actuator.

It looks likes you could get away without using the F-857s and simply bolt the Crow brackets in directly.

What have others done with rear seat attach of Crows in an 8?

I used the stock setup just as the plans call them out and put the crow mounting bracket into the F857D/E slot. There might have been some slight bending required to align everything, but I can't remember offhand. They are needed to bring the mount points outside the side cover over the flap arms.

Flap motor & switch by Andy Karmy, on Flickr
 
Andy,

Your rear lap belt attach is different than mine. Mine is a 2002 vintage (see attached DWG32). Yes - I am slow building. The F-857D&E are separate bars that pivot bolt to the airframe attach F-857A&B . The seat belt brackets then pivot bolt to the F-857D&E.

I was thinking of eliminating the F-857D&E and pivot bolting the Crow seat belt brackets directly to the air frame F-857A&B.

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Ah I see, much different. I would think you could try it easily enough and see if you can make the belt attachment work out with your covers on the sides. Seems like it might work just fine. If not, you can add the other extension back in like the plans show.
 
Vans said they haven't tried attaching the seat belt brackets direct without the F-857D&E extensions but saw no reason not to give it a try - so I will. Thanks for the reply Andy.
 
I was staying at the Mariott in Denver(week-end rate) and got in the elevator with a guy who was wearing a tee-shirt with the Crow emblem. I told him I had Crow seat belts in my airplane, and he replied, I am Don Crow, the owner. You never know who you are going to meet in an elevator.

Yikes, I thought I had written this, because the same thing happened to me. (Not in Denver). Don must ride a lot of elevators!!
 
Tried attaching the Crow brackets direct on my 8 but there was to much chance of interference with the flap weldment arms so I made up new & longer F-857D&E offset bars to take the thicker Crow brackets and opened up the aft side panel slots a little - not a big deal. This also keeps the Crow brackets and all of the belt out in the open.
 
Merry Christmas to me!!

The wife came through with the one big item on my Christmas list!!
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Never thought I would say I love my seatbelts, but I do!!
 
Pullup vs pull down

Can someone explain the whys of pull up tighteners on the shoulder belts please?

I get that for the lap and sub, towards the latch would be technically a pull up, but for the shoulders, Ive only used pull downs. It escapes me why one would do pull ups on the shoulders.......?

Wouldnt pulling towards the latch for each belt be optimal?
 
Wouldnt pulling towards the latch for each belt be optimal?

Yes, that's the way I have mine and they work fine. You pull forward (towards the buckle) on the lap belts as there is no room to pull aft due to the attachment. And pulling down on the shoulder belts is normal as well.
 
Yes, that's the way I have mine and they work fine. You pull forward (towards the buckle) on the lap belts as there is no room to pull aft due to the attachment. And pulling down on the shoulder belts is normal as well.

Ok thanks. I was looking at the Crow site and for the RV belts it lists them as pull up. Thats what had me at a loss. Guess I'll call when I order just to make sure.
 
Not sure what you're looking at Mani. I installed a set of Crow's in my RV-8 a few months ago and they work as you'd expect: everything pulls/pushes toward the central latch. Perhaps you're misinterpreting what you're seeing/reading.

One area I have found to be a minor issue is that the crotch straps do not want to pull tight once installed so you may have to find the proper adjustment length by trial and error and leave it at that. Not sure why these won't budge once installed but mine won't.

Otherwise, I love the belts.

Chris
 
Not sure what you're looking at Mani. I installed a set of Crow's in my RV-8 a few months ago and they work as you'd expect: everything pulls/pushes toward the central latch. Perhaps you're misinterpreting what you're seeing/reading.

Chris

Good to know thanks. In this game, I've found theres a lot of stuff I dont understand correctly. Seems like its just better to admit my stupidity and get on with the questions.
 
One area I have found to be a minor issue is that the crotch straps do not want to pull tight once installed so you may have to find the proper adjustment length by trial and error and leave it at that

I have this same issue. Additionally I find they loosen up over time and I have to re-thread the buckle to shorten them back up. There must be a better solution to the problem, but I've not yet spent any time trying to figure it out. :) The challenge in this area (especially the front seat of an 8) is that the distance is very short for the buckle and belt to latch distance, so there's not much belt to work with.
 
Not sure what you're looking at Mani. I installed a set of Crow's in my RV-8 a few months ago and they work as you'd expect: everything pulls/pushes toward the central latch. Perhaps you're misinterpreting what you're seeing/reading.

One area I have found to be a minor issue is that the crotch straps do not want to pull tight once installed so you may have to find the proper adjustment length by trial and error and leave it at that. Not sure why these won't budge once installed but mine won't.

Otherwise, I love the belts.

Chris

It's an option that you choose when you order Chris - "pull-up" or "pull-down" for the lap belt. My original Crow's on the RV-8 (dating back to 2005 or so) are pull down - not as good as pull-up if you really want to cinch things down tight. The ones we have in the -3 and now in our Tundra are pull-up, and much easier to get tight. Shoulders are all pull-down (towards the buckle) because that makes total sense for shoulder belts.
 
It's an option that you choose when you order Chris - "pull-up" or "pull-down" for the lap belt. My original Crow's on the RV-8 (dating back to 2005 or so) are pull down - not as good as pull-up if you really want to cinch things down tight. The ones we have in the -3 and now in our Tundra are pull-up, and much easier to get tight. Shoulders are all pull-down (towards the buckle) because that makes total sense for shoulder belts.

I, obviously, was not aware of that Paul. Thanks for the clarification. I'll file it away in my memory banks. ;)

Chris
 
I have this same issue. Additionally I find they loosen up over time and I have to re-thread the buckle to shorten them back up. There must be a better solution to the problem, but I've not yet spent any time trying to figure it out. :) The challenge in this area (especially the front seat of an 8) is that the distance is very short for the buckle and belt to latch distance, so there's not much belt to work with.

Amen to that Andy.

Chris
 
I think there is a 10% discount (or something similar) on crow seat belts going on. I saw the ad on kitplanes. I should have paid more attention.
 
I think there is a 10% discount (or something similar) on crow seat belts going on. I saw the ad on kitplanes. I should have paid more attention.

There is? Id not seen that. I'll have to call them sooner than later then. Thanks for this tidbit.
 
I was upside down in my plane, I had Crow seat belts, it was nice to be able to twist the knob and every thing came apart to exit the airplane.
I would recommend the Crow belts. i was not wearing the crotch belts.

Dave
 
I was upside down in my plane, I had Crow seat belts, it was nice to be able to twist the knob and every thing came apart to exit the airplane.
I would recommend the Crow belts. i was not wearing the crotch belts.

Dave

Sounds like there's more to this story. Care to share?

Chris
 
Crow harness bolt holes now correct size

no, the bolt holes are not the correct size. No spacers were included, so modification will still be required. Other than that, the harness is very nice and has a lot of room for adjustment so they should fit anyone.

Update. Just installed new harnesses ordered direct from Crow. The bolt holes were the correct size and replacement of the old 4-point harnesses in my 6 took just a few minutes. A future project for me is to add mounts to install the crotch straps.
 
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