What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

New pilot considering an RV-4

ShuRugal

I'm New Here
Bit of background: I've just recently been awarded my Sport Pilot certificate, and am working on hours for my Private. I've been flying Tecnam Sierras, and I love the way they handle and sip gas, but they are a bit on the slow side and I can't find one for sell under $100k, and my budget for a plane is no more than $50k.

Doing research, I really like what I see with Van's, and the RV-4 looks just about perfect: Centerline seating, small, light weight, reported to have excellent handling, good fuel consumption, and nice and zippy. Second seat is a plus for the times I will want a passenger along.

Been looking around at pricing, and it seems that the price is right around my range as well. Looks like I could pick up a used RV-4 with a decent engine and a Hartzel for anything from low 40s to upper 50s.

I would love to build one, but looking at pricing, i'd be over budget at airframe, engine, and prop. By the time i put instruments in it, i'd be close to 80k.

Any advice? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should i just bite the bullet and buy a used cherokee for $20k and just accept that it's a slow gas-hog?
 
RV4 Purchase

If you find a good built RV-4 you won't go wrong. They're great airplanes. I sure love mine. Good luck and go for it.
 
RV-4 is awesome and if I were a smaller fella that's what I would be flying.

However - I'm 6'5" and my traveling companion is 5'11" and we simply won't fit in a -4.

Have you sat in one?
 
Bit of background: I've just recently been awarded my Sport Pilot certificate, and am working on hours for my Private. I've been flying Tecnam Sierras, and I love the way they handle and sip gas, but they are a bit on the slow side and I can't find one for sell under $100k, and my budget for a plane is no more than $50k.

Doing research, I really like what I see with Van's, and the RV-4 looks just about perfect: Centerline seating, small, light weight, reported to have excellent handling, good fuel consumption, and nice and zippy. Second seat is a plus for the times I will want a passenger along.

Been looking around at pricing, and it seems that the price is right around my range as well. Looks like I could pick up a used RV-4 with a decent engine and a Hartzel for anything from low 40s to upper 50s.

I would love to build one, but looking at pricing, i'd be over budget at airframe, engine, and prop. By the time i put instruments in it, i'd be close to 80k.

Any advice? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should i just bite the bullet and buy a used cherokee for $20k and just accept that it's a slow gas-hog?

Consider talking to Brian, aka; 1flyingyogi on this site. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/member.php?u=21871

He was in the same situation, sport pilot working on private and was exploring the idea of buying and flying an RV. Here is a link to his thread: http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=132984&highlight=Brian+RV4

Brian ended up buying a beautiful RV4 for what seemed to me a great price.

I got my PPL in 2014 and bought an RV8 immediately afterwards with about 100 hours under my belt mostly in a C-172. The RV's are wonderful airplanes. It's definitely doable. You are definitely not barking up the wrong tree.

I bought an RV because I wanted to fly. Now that I own and maintain one I really want to build. Good luck with your decision and welcome to VAF.
 
RV White Pages

You might try looking around the RV White pages... link on page one of Doug's VAF News Page (left margin) to see if a builder or pilot is near you. By networking you should soon be able to get a ride in an RV4. If not a ride rightaway, a lot of your questions/concerns will be answered by looking at one up close.

P.S. By going to "Model" and then looking for Virginia, I found four RV-4's, all in "Flying" Status.
 
Last edited:
I bought my RV4 shortly after getting my Sport Pilot Certificate and it was not the traditional or easy way to do things. At the time, I only had about 50hrs and no private pilot certificate and only a tail-wheel endorsement in a Citabria. No one took me seriously and I probably had more people tell me NOT to buy an RV4 than those supporting my decision. They felt it was "too much plane" for a newbie.

After looking for about 5 months, spending lots of money/ time traveling all over the place and seeing lots of RV6's and RV4's, I finally found a good one. I then went to Mike Seager for transition training, and then got my Private Pilot Certificate a few months afterwards.

It certainly is not an easy/ ideal first plane to have, but for me, it was the right thing to do. I am thoroughly enjoying the plane and have no regrets doing it this way. I wish it was a little easier and less stressful in the beginning stages, but I feel it's all worth it.

Just to make sure it's what you really want, I would recommend getting some tail-dragger trianing/ endorsement and also get some rides in a -4 (the more the better) and see what you think. It really is a "total performance" aircraft - sporty, good for light aerobatics, relatively comfortable, practical and economical enough for cross country and just a huge amount of fun to fly!

Get the training and enjoy!





Bit of background: I've just recently been awarded my Sport Pilot certificate, and am working on hours for my Private. I've been flying Tecnam Sierras, and I love the way they handle and sip gas, but they are a bit on the slow side and I can't find one for sell under $100k, and my budget for a plane is no more than $50k.

Doing research, I really like what I see with Van's, and the RV-4 looks just about perfect: Centerline seating, small, light weight, reported to have excellent handling, good fuel consumption, and nice and zippy. Second seat is a plus for the times I will want a passenger along.

Been looking around at pricing, and it seems that the price is right around my range as well. Looks like I could pick up a used RV-4 with a decent engine and a Hartzel for anything from low 40s to upper 50s.

I would love to build one, but looking at pricing, i'd be over budget at airframe, engine, and prop. By the time i put instruments in it, i'd be close to 80k.

Any advice? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should i just bite the bullet and buy a used cherokee for $20k and just accept that it's a slow gas-hog?
 
Just checking: are you talking about purchasing one in which to try to finish your training for a private pilot license, or are you thinking of buying one for use after you get the PPL?
 
You might try looking around the RV White pages... link on page one of Doug's VAF News Page (left margin) to see if a builder or pilot is near you. By networking you should soon be able to get a ride in an RV4. If not a ride rightaway, a lot of your questions/concerns will be answered by looking at one up close.

P.S. By going to "Model" and then looking for Virginia, I found four RV-4's, all in "Flying" Status.


Seems like sound advice, I will definitely look into that.



Just checking: are you talking about purchasing one in which to try to finish your training for a private pilot license, or are you thinking of buying one for use after you get the PPL?

Either/or. I am confident enough in my basic aptitude and pilot ability that I do not believe it is likely to be "too much to handle". I have roughly a thousand hours of simulator time, and who knows how much RC-model time, which i have found translates very well into real-word fundamentals: The first time I ever touched a real-world full-scale stick, my instructor thought I was already a pilot and was taking a "discovery flight" as a practical joke; I flew the plane off the runway, around the countryside, back into the pattern, and made my landing without him needing to touch the stick, and every lesson I have had with him since has gone the same way.


That said, I am likely to end up finishing up my PP before I find one to purchase: Only reason I don't already have my PP is i need to log more hours. As soon as I cross all my "i"s and dot all my "t"s, i'll be taking my practical for PP.
 
Simple

Get transition training! Worth the money. Especially as a new pilot.
You will need to for insurance.
 
If you can get down to NC, I can give you a full RV4 tour/ride. I built mine, and work on many others. I have helped several first time RV Want to be owners become owners..they are great machines.
 
Either/or. I am confident enough in my basic aptitude and pilot ability that I do not believe it is likely to be "too much to handle". ... That said, I am likely to end up finishing up my PP before I find one to purchase:

Your chances of finding an RV-4 with dual controls plus an instructor able & willing to give instruction in it to finish your PPL would be nil, which is why I asked.

However, if you?re talking about getting one after your PPL, I don't think you are barking up the wrong tree at all. IMO, an RV-4 is not really harder to fly than any other basic tail dragger, and plenty of people have gotten their PPL's in tail draggers. I'd bet plenty have gotten their PPL's in a tricycle gear trainer, then moved on to a tail dragger, so I don't see any problem, provided you get proper transition training and develop the ability to fly competently and safely.

IMO, a used RV-4 (and a good one) is undoubtedly one of the greatest bargains in aviation right now. You are getting an amazing amount of all-around performance for the price.

The only other question is whether the things you get and don't get in an RV-4 are what you want in an airplane. I have nothing against a Cherokee, and I'm willing to say (as a 17 year RV-4 owner) that in many ways a Cherokee is a more civilized ride than an RV-4, especially if you want to bring your wife or girlfriend. You sit up on a seat like a chair; your friend/girlfriend can sit next to you; someone else can sit in the back; if you don't have anyone with you, you can have your maps and junk on the empty seat next to you, etc. It's all more roomy and car-like than an RV-4.

In an RV-4, you get down in the cockpit and you're sitting somewhat like in a go cart, with your feet out in front of you; you've got a canopy close overhead; there's not much room for unfolding a map, and the airplane likes to go different directions while you're reading the map. Your friend in the back also gets down in the cockpit, and his/her feet are next to your hips.

But in the RV-4, the combination of balance, handling, speed, visibility, light aerobatic capability, and economy is amazing. You said you find those things attractive, plus you like the idea of sitting on the center line. Sounds like you like the things an RV-4 gives you.

Also sounds like you should be headed to Fixnflyguy's place to take him up on his offer and see if the plane's for you.

PS, remember an RV-4 likes to live inside a hangar, while an older Cherokee can probably be kept outside, so a pretty significant cost difference there.
 
Odds of finding an instructor are a bit tougher (depending on where you are & who you know), but far from nil. My current RV-4 was built by a 'car' guy. His 1st a/c build, and after he finished it, his CFI friend taught him to fly in it. Starting at zero hours training. It's got rudder pedals in the back but no throttle/mixture. They started with the student in the back, until he could land it with just rudder (and no brakes) from the back seat. Then they swapped places for the rest of the training.

I trained more or less the same way, in a Luscombe. Right seat (no brakes) until I could land it using only rudder, then we swapped seats. Only real difference was, I could reach the throttle (which made it easier, of course).

Charlie
 
If you can get down to NC, I can give you a full RV4 tour/ride. I built mine, and work on many others. I have helped several first time RV Want to be owners become owners..they are great machines.

I will definitely consider this. I see from the list that there is someone in Fredricksburg with one (I am in the Richmond area), but if I am not able to work out anything with that individual, you'll definitely be next on the list. I certainly appreciate the offer, either way.

Your chances of finding an RV-4 with dual controls plus an instructor able & willing to give instruction in it to finish your PPL would be nil, which is why I asked.

Yeah, I've seen two come up on barnstormers with rear stick/pedals (most just have rear stick, it seems)


The only other question is whether the things you get and don't get in an RV-4 are what you want in an airplane. I have nothing against a Cherokee, and I'm willing to say (as a 17 year RV-4 owner) that in many ways a Cherokee is a more civilized ride than an RV-4, especially if you want to bring your wife or girlfriend. You sit up on a seat like a chair; your friend/girlfriend can sit next to you; someone else can sit in the back; if you don't have anyone with you, you can have your maps and junk on the empty seat next to you, etc. It's all more roomy and car-like than an RV-4.

That is definitely a consideration as well, but my primary concern is with overall performance. I'm single with no kids, and while I do have a couple friends and relatives I might like to fly with, most of my flying is likely to be alone.

PS, remember an RV-4 likes to live inside a hangar, while an older Cherokee can probably be kept outside, so a pretty significant cost difference there.

That is definitely a concern as well. I have not been able to find much published on going rates for hangar space: I am probably going to end up having to call around to do research on that.
 
All bark, no bite...

Any advice? Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should i just bite the bullet and buy a used cherokee for $20k and just accept that it's a slow gas-hog?
Shu,
Having built a RV4 back in the 80's and put "several' (thousand) hours on it I can add my meager Dos Centavos.
First, I would never recommend the RV4 as a first airplane. Since you're a Sport Pilot, the legalities alone of getting a proper check-out are complicated, but not impossible. Still, I would lean towards an efficient, Sport Pilot legal airplane that you can get alot of enjoyment and the occasional cross country.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/eaa-sp-12-2006.pdf

I have an RV consulting LLC and I tell prospective customers I'm going to try and talk them out of buying one. If I'm not successful, then we will proceed further.
I ask 4 questions:

1. How much Tailwheel time do you have? If none, don't learn in an RV and for sure don't try to get an insurance quote.
2. How many hours a year will you fly? If less than 100 hours I say rent, join a flying club or buy a ticket on Southwest.
3. How much complex airplane/fast certified time? (180Knot VNE) RV's build up speed easily and I've found low time pilots aren't as wary as experienced ones.
4. Have you owned an airplane before? It's fun, exciting and challenging but mostly, EXPENSIVE. Be ready...

Hopefully that helps. Email me offline if you have questions. [email protected]
V/R
Smokey
PS: If I were you I'd consider some of the Sport Pilot legal Experimentals. There are many out there that qualify, here's a link that can help. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation...fly-light-sport-aircraft/faa-sport-pilot-rule
 
Last edited:
I own both a cherokee 180 and an RV-4. I love my RV, it just carried me 900 miles up and back the right coast with burns as low as 5gph in cruise at speeds my cherokee can only get downhill.

They aren't particularly hard to fly, but as Smoky said they will fly right out from underneath you if you are not prepared. This is a light aircraft, I am not in the camp that your simulator time means next to anything and I sincerely hope you seek out and receive extensive transition training.

I have done multiple tailwheel signoffs for pilots new to RVs, they can be done. I prefer to do them in side by side RVs, and would not consider doing it in a -4 for a few different reasons. My concern is that you may start flying tailwheels and decide its not for you, it happens.

Take it slow and safe, it is a great airplane.
 
Just another point of view:

I would have failed all of Smoky's questions when I bought my RV-4. Got a tailwheel checkout with Mike Seagar which gave me enough time on type to get insurance. Spent nearly all the first 30 or so hours in the circuit. Never had a problem flying it and while landings were far from perfect they were safe. I never felt I was out of my league in that airplane. Mine had a constant speed prop so slowing down was never an issue - my experience might have been different with a fixed pitch prop.

I did have a few hundred hours on various other airplanes, Cessnas and Cherokees, but I had been out of aviation for a number of years when I got my RV-4.

I would do it the same way again without hesitation, but not with that specific RV-4 (another story).
 
Shu,
Having built a RV4 back in the 80's and put "several' (thousand) hours on it I can add my meager Dos Centavos.
First, I would never recommend the RV4 as a first airplane. Since you're a Sport Pilot, the legalities alone of getting a proper check-out are complicated, but not impossible. Still, I would lean towards an efficient, Sport Pilot legal airplane that you can get alot of enjoyment and the occasional cross country.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/eaa-sp-12-2006.pdf

I have an RV consulting LLC and I tell prospective customers I'm going to try and talk them out of buying one. If I'm not successful, then we will proceed further.
I ask 4 questions:

1. How much Tailwheel time do you have? If none, don't learn in an RV and for sure don't try to get an insurance quote.
2. How many hours a year will you fly? If less than 100 hours I say rent, join a flying club or buy a ticket on Southwest.
3. How much complex airplane/fast certified time? (180Knot VNE) RV's build up speed easily and I've found low time pilots aren't as wary as experienced ones.
4. Have you owned an airplane before? It's fun, exciting and challenging but mostly, EXPENSIVE. Be ready...

Hopefully that helps. Email me offline if you have questions. [email protected]
V/R
Smokey
PS: If I were you I'd consider some of the Sport Pilot legal Experimentals. There are many out there that qualify, here's a link that can help. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation...fly-light-sport-aircraft/faa-sport-pilot-rule

I enjoy yr input here 'smokyray' it's valuable advice from an experienced aviator:)
 
Shu,
Having built a RV4 back in the 80's and put "several' (thousand) hours on it I can add my meager Dos Centavos.
First, I would never recommend the RV4 as a first airplane. Since you're a Sport Pilot, the legalities alone of getting a proper check-out are complicated, but not impossible. Still, I would lean towards an efficient, Sport Pilot legal airplane that you can get alot of enjoyment and the occasional cross country.
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/eaa-sp-12-2006.pdf

I have an RV consulting LLC and I tell prospective customers I'm going to try and talk them out of buying one. If I'm not successful, then we will proceed further.
I ask 4 questions:

1. How much Tailwheel time do you have? If none, don't learn in an RV and for sure don't try to get an insurance quote.
2. How many hours a year will you fly? If less than 100 hours I say rent, join a flying club or buy a ticket on Southwest.
3. How much complex airplane/fast certified time? (180Knot VNE) RV's build up speed easily and I've found low time pilots aren't as wary as experienced ones.
4. Have you owned an airplane before? It's fun, exciting and challenging but mostly, EXPENSIVE. Be ready...

Hopefully that helps. Email me offline if you have questions. [email protected]
V/R
Smokey
PS: If I were you I'd consider some of the Sport Pilot legal Experimentals. There are many out there that qualify, here's a link that can help. https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation...fly-light-sport-aircraft/faa-sport-pilot-rule


Sent you an email.


I own both a cherokee 180 and an RV-4. I love my RV, it just carried me 900 miles up and back the right coast with burns as low as 5gph in cruise at speeds my cherokee can only get downhill.

They aren't particularly hard to fly, but as Smoky said they will fly right out from underneath you if you are not prepared. This is a light aircraft, I am not in the camp that your simulator time means next to anything and I sincerely hope you seek out and receive extensive transition training.

I have done multiple tailwheel signoffs for pilots new to RVs, they can be done. I prefer to do them in side by side RVs, and would not consider doing it in a -4 for a few different reasons. My concern is that you may start flying tailwheels and decide its not for you, it happens.

Take it slow and safe, it is a great airplane.

I respect your opinion that sim time != stick time, but I must disagree that it "does not mean anything". Having been in a position to compare various aircraft behavior in the simulator I use with multiple similar types either RC or full-scale, I believe that simulator time is very valuable when properly applied. The only thing really missing is the sensation of pulling Gs, and if anything the actual control manipulation in a real bird is easier than in the sim, because you get feedback from the plane, where in the sim you are entirely reliant on visual cues which may well come too late.

Overall, the gist of what I am getting from most here is mainly "Don't buy one until you've tried one, and get conventional gear training in something more tame while you're at it", which sounds like great advice. I'll hold off on making a decision until I complete my PP cert, and I won't pull the trigger until I've had a chance to sample one and gotten some conversion training. But most of what people have to say about these sounds like this is exactly the plane I am looking for.

We'll see what we see, i guess.
 
Try one on for size

I'm not of big stature and I found the -4 cramped. Tried an -8 and felt right at home.

These tandem planes are a way different feel then those sport side by sides.

Remember, consider your mission.
 
Another possible RV checkout/training route: John Musgrave at Morris, IL (C09) gives RV transition training and tailwheel endorsements in........(wait for it)..... his dual control RV4!!

Check it out at: www.blueskyaero.com

I have haven't met this gentleman, or talked to him, but a local new RV4 owner got his transition training from John recently. Good luck with your decision. The RV4 is a great airplane, and the most bang for the buck in an RV.
 
Do yourself a favor. Learn your tailwheel and basic stick and rudder skills in something that requires stick and rudder skills, like a Cub, Champ, etc... You can find a decent flying machine for 20-25k and sell if for the same when you're done.
The RV series of aircraft are almost too easy. If you gain your skills in an airplane that requires you to use good technique, you will easily transition into an RV and be much more prepared if/when conditions require all your skill.
As far as simulator time and the aspects of a tailwheel: near useless. It would be like using a simulator to learn to ride a bike. You have to be able to "feel" what the airplane is doing.
I flew antiques for hundreds of hours before the RV. My transition training with Mike Seager was one hour with three landings. Done.

There is no doubt you can learn to fly any RV in a couple days with Mike or other qualified RV instructor if you have some time under your belt. I just don't feel that is the best path for tailwheel but there are exceptions.
 
Another possible RV checkout/training route: John Musgrave at Morris, IL (C09) gives RV transition training...

I received 5/hrs dual required by insurance with John 4-years ago. Great guy/instructor. I only had ~20/hrs TW some 5-years prior to flying with John and settled into the -4 nicely. He knew I was in the market and looking to purchase in a few weeks and felt comfortable enough to let me solo so I'd know what the pre-buy flight would be like.

Not that I have a ton of experience in various taildraggers, but I think the -4 is the easiest I've flown--you can power out of most bad situations, but that in and of itself takes experience. I also had 400/hrs dual given by the time I strapped into a -4 and was comfortable with airplanes doing things I didn't tell them to do--and then correcting for it. I would not have been comfortable in a -4 without the experience of flying faster aircraft and the TW foundation already behind me.
 
Back
Top