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G3X Touch V5.70 with GMC 507 Support

g3xpert

Well Known Member
Advertiser
Hello,

The full list of G3X Touch V5.70 changes/features is shown on the software history page, but we wanted to discuss a few of the features here.

First, we have been busy developing/certifying a new autopilot control panel for the certified GFC 500 autopilot, and we are now pleased to announce that the GMC 507 is supported by the new G3X Touch V5.70 software and the new G5 V5.10 software. Software support for G3X is forthcoming as soon as we can complete developing and testing the changes.

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The GMC 507 is physically the same width and height as the GMC 307, and will mount in the same panel hole or in a new mark width (6.25 inches wide) rack if you want to mount it in the radio stack. The GMC 507 also uses the same 15 pin connector as the GMC 307, but the wiring is a little different due to the new features it provides. Since the GMC 507 connects to the CAN bus, there is no longer a need to run dedicated RS-232 wiring from the autopilot control panel to the roll servo, so this reduces autopilot installation wiring. The GMC 507 is also expected to sell for the same price as the GMC 307, and will be available for ordering from your Garmin dealer very soon.

The GMC 507 provides some features not relevant to the non-certified market, but a few features are important to the non-certified market, especially if you are installing the GMC 507 in a G5 installation without a G3X Touch system.

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For both G5 and G3X Touch installations, there is a new TRK mode button, and support for a TO/GA button input in installations where there is no GEA 24 installed to provide this input. Also important to G5 only installations is the audio output from the GMC 507 that provides the following autopilot related audio outputs:
1) Autopilot Disconnect Tone
2) ?Engaging Autopilot? voice alert for ESP auto-level engagement
3) ?Airspeed Airspeed? voice alert for under-speed and over-speed protection engagement
4) Altitude Preselect Tone (plays at 1000 feet of target and again at 200 feet)

An additional software feature provided by both G3X Touch V5.70 and G5 V5.10 is the addition of standard rate turn markers on the roll arc. These markers move in/out on the roll arc depending on the speed of the aircraft and the bank angle required to maintain a standard turn rate.

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Another customer requested feature added to G3X Touch V5.70 is additional information displayed on both the traffic page and map page when you touch a traffic target. For example, the selected target ground speed and closure rate are now shown in the pop-up traffic target information box.

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Let us know if you have questions.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Would it be possible to get a screenshot of the new QWERTY keyboard?
That sounds interesting.
 
GMC307

One question regarding the new software...is there any chance that it impacted the GMC307 in some way? Upon initial AP engagement, no mode chevrons appeared on the GMC. Disengaged and re-engaged, and only two (no AP or NAV) chevrons appeared. Disengaged and re-engaged again, and all appropriate chevrons illuminated. Only thought to snap a picture at the second instance. I didn't notice any other issues through the remainder of the flight, but also flew quite a bit without the autopilot engaged.

 
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Will I be able to use the current GMC307 232 input for control or is the 507 required to be on the CAN bus? (upgrade with minimal wiring changes).
 
One question regarding the new software...is there any chance that it impacted the GMC307 in some way? Upon initial AP engagement, no mode chevrons appeared on the GMC. Disengaged and re-engaged, and only two (no AP or NAV) chevrons appeared. Disengaged and re-engaged again, and all appropriate chevrons illuminated. Only thought to snap a picture at the second instance. I didn't notice any other issues through the remainder of the flight, but also flew quite a bit without the autopilot engaged.

Hello Jeff,

We will certainly look into this, but we confirmed that the GMC 307 worked correctly when we were testing the V5.70 software.

When you go into configuration mode and select the GMC 307 on the System Information page, there is a touch screen button to test the annunciator lights on the GMC 307, but it sounds like they are functional.

Thanks,
Steve
 
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Will I be able to use the current GMC307 232 input for control or is the 507 required to be on the CAN bus? (upgrade with minimal wiring changes).

Hello Walt,

Like the autopilot servos, the GMC 507 only uses the CAN bus for communications with the displays and G5, so installing a GMC 507 also frees up an RS-232 port on the PFD normally used for a GMC 305/307 connection.

The GMC 507 also receives software updates over the CAN bus like the other CAN devices in the system.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Has anyone else had any autopilot issues after this upgrade?

I did the upgrade the other day and everything seemed to go fine.

Went to fly this afternoon and the autopilot keeps failing on me.

Looking at the log file the error message is:

AP Fail/Abnormal disengage/00000004

When I power cycle the AP Panel and servos it will either fail on startup, or work for a few seconds up to a couple minutes before it fails again.

Thanks,

-Dan
 
Has anyone else had any autopilot issues after this upgrade?

I did the upgrade the other day and everything seemed to go fine.

Went to fly this afternoon and the autopilot keeps failing on me.

Looking at the log file the error message is:

AP Fail/Abnormal disengage/00000004

When I power cycle the AP Panel and servos it will either fail on startup, or work for a few seconds up to a couple minutes before it fails again.

Thanks,

-Dan
I spent 2 full days troubleshooting this exact problem this week with the same version of software. It sounds like we have a software bug!
 
I spent 2 full days troubleshooting this exact problem this week with the same version of software. It sounds like we have a software bug!

Jesse,

Did you figure out anything? Any way to go back rev to 5.6?

I have a 3+ hour flight tomorrow, and I'm spoiled, I'd really like my AP to work.

-Dan
 
Do not update your G3X software to 5.70, at least until we find out what is causing the autopilot problem. It cost a good friend of mine and myself 3 days of troubleshooting before we could ferry his RV-8 home. We ended up having to leave with the autopilot disengage problem, rendering it inop. It also caused our installation shop to expend extraordinary and stressful efforts swapping out components and chasing their tail. If it is the latest software, can we downgrade to the previous version?

Jim
 
I was just up and verified I too have the same issue. I don't have auto trim enabled and am no longer seeing the "trim up" or "trim down" alerts on my panel. Prior to the latest update everything worked fine.
 
It sounds like the problem is appearing in multiple installations. We were told that we probably have a CAN bus proplem by Garmin tech support. We have probably 30-50 man hours into troubleshooting and a plane without auto pilot after a $30,000 Panel Upgrade. Note to self, don?t upgrade software until it has been out for a while and bugs have been found and fixed.
 
Not sure about anyone else but I'd be happy to lose the QWERTY keyboard function if my autopilot would work again. I save all the installation files for these updates. Can one reinstall 5.60 if you have 5.70 installed?
 
Two more airplanes with G3X autopilot broken after updating to V5.70 software. My personal RV-8 and a different friend's RV-8. That's a total of 3 including the first one that I updated at the delivery flight of a new panel. I feel culpable having been the guy updating all my buddies' G3X in an attempt to help everybody out. It's unfortunate the problem became apparent over the weekend when Garmin tech support is closed.

Jim
 
I've sent Steve at Garmin an e-mail asking him how to revert to 5.6 I have a three hour flight planned for tomorrow, would really like to have an AP.

-Dan
 
Downreved to 5.6

Fairly painless. Went out and flew for 30 minutes afterwards, and no issues with the AP. Appears to be an error with the new AP code in 5.7

-Dan
 
OMG! I thought it was just me! My autopilot is intermittent now that I have upgraded. Hmmmm



Has anyone else had any autopilot issues after this upgrade?

I did the upgrade the other day and everything seemed to go fine.

Went to fly this afternoon and the autopilot keeps failing on me.

Looking at the log file the error message is:

AP Fail/Abnormal disengage/00000004

When I power cycle the AP Panel and servos it will either fail on startup, or work for a few seconds up to a couple minutes before it fails again.

Thanks,

-Dan
 
Dang,

I flew today after the upgrade but never turned on the AP since I needed some stick time.

Sorry I can't confirm if it killed mine or not...I did turn it on while on the ground just to see if the TRK button worked on the screen. It engaged like normal and did not fault out while sitting there.

One thing is for sure though, if TeamX determines they have a bug this significant, you can bet that they will find the root cause and post an update fast.....
 
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Dang,

I flew today after the upgrade but never turned on the AP since I needed some stick time.

Sorry I can't confirm if it killed mine or not...I did turn it on while on the ground just to see if the TRK button worked on the screen. It engaged like normal and did not fault out while sitting there.

One thing is for sure though, if TeamX determines they have a bug this significant, you can bet that they will find the root cause and post an update fast.....

No offense, but it has been determined that they have a bug this significant. I do hope they come out with a fix fast. I will leave my response to this.....
 
Auto pilot disconnecting

Flew to 7 airports yesterday all on Auto pilot and it disengaged 3 times for no apparent reason. Reengages OK with the AP button. This happened after upgrading to 5.7.
BTW I really would like my G3X Touches to Animate weather and to set the VNAV to the next waypoint as DEFAULTS, please.
 
Nope. It's not just you.

I called my buddy Dennis yesterday because I saw he had flown on Flightaware. It was the first flight after his buddy Jim (me) updated his G3X to V5.70. I asked him how his autopilot was doing. He responded that it was curious I asked as it went wonky on him and turned off. He figured he had a warranty issue. I explained to him the same problem seems to be manifesting itself in the G3X with V5.70 software and the GMC 307. He was relieved to find out what was causing his issue.

Jim
 
Nope. It's not just you.

I called my buddy Dennis yesterday because I saw he had flown on Flightaware. It was the first flight after his buddy Jim (me) updated his G3X to V5.70. I asked him how his autopilot was doing. He responded that it was curious I asked as it went wonky on him and turned off. He figured he had a warranty issue. I explained to him the same problem seems to be manifesting itself in the G3X with V5.70 software and the GMC 307. He was relieved to find out what was causing his issue.

Jim

Not just the GMC307, I have the older GMC305.

-Dan
 
Hello,

We agree that there seems to be good evidence now that there is an issue with V5.70 despite the fact that both of our G3X Touch aircraft have flown many hours on autopilot without a disconnect.

Regardless of how much bench and flight testing we do, we don't always catch everything, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

We have removed V5.70 from the website and replaced it with V5.60. For those needing assistance downgrading from V5.70 to V5.60, we ask that you contact our product support group by phone or email as shown below.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Downgrading software to v5.6

Is there something special to downgrading? Can we just put v5.6 on the card from the website and insert it into the GDU and let it do its thing just like how we upgrade?
 
I hadn?t upgraded since last spring because my system was fairly stable. I upgraded to 5.7 this morning then went to the Garmin page to remind myself of what the update had to offer and was surprised the update wasn?t there. I?m going to hold off on downgrading a while since I don?t need to fly and Steve and his team are on the ball.

When I was going to downgrade in the past because an update broke something, the G3X guys warned me I might lose settings, etc.

If a number of you successfully downgrade and a fix doesn?t happen in a few days, I?ll give the downgrade a try.

In the future I?m going to check Vans Airforce before upgrading.
 
AP failing

Has anyone else had any autopilot issues after this upgrade?
I did the upgrade the other day and everything seemed to go fine.
Went to fly this afternoon and the autopilot keeps failing on me.
Looking at the log file the error message is:
AP Fail/Abnormal disengage/00000004
When I power cycle the AP Panel and servos it will either fail on startup, or work for a few seconds up to a couple minutes before it fails again.
Thanks,
Dan

I have exactly the same problem. I thought it was me also, it's intermittent. One fail event seems to be associated with the alignment of the ADAHRS that takes place at start up, then it will fail again during taxi, then come back on.

If I don't do anything at start-up and just sit while it aligns, it's better, if I start the engine or turn on other switches that causes an AP warning that sometime goes away and sometime not.
 
The downgrade instructions

Called for the instructions to revert to V5.60, Jonathan was very helpful and sent the instructions, shown below.

Good Afternoon
I understand that you are having issues with 5.70. Our engineers are hard at work investigating the issue.
If you would like to backload the software, here is a link to the 5.60 software and instructions:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/043lzhe1ug8kny5/GDU46xCockpitDisplay_560.exe?dl=0
To backload the software, load the software to the SD card, inset the card, then start up the system normally.
Press menu, menu, tools, databases, then menu one more time. Here you can manually load the software to the GDU.
You will need to do this to each GDU.
Once the displays are reloaded, start up the system in config mode and go to the system info section.
Touch the LRUs that have been updated with 5.70 like the GSA 28s and G5 then touch the software line on the right. Press menu then select reload software. Looks like just these four LRUs were updated with 5.07:
No one has a GMC 507 yet, and the GDL 5X is very new.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Jonathan C
 
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AP fail

On past Friday my AP also failed in IMC . Prior to this I flew 4 coupled approaches after installing 5.7 during which time the AP functioned without any issues. I specifically did this in preparation for a long flight in likely IMC conditions after installing the 5.7 version. The failure happened a few minutes after departure (AP with red X through it and audible warning of disengage). At times I could re-engage during which times it worked for a few minutes at a time. Flew about 3 hours by hand with RNAV approach at end. The NAV and FD function remained available at all times. YD remained engaged at all times. It was better on the return flight on Monday with AP working most of the time.

Not sure if this is related, but the BT connection to GDL39R also failed. Nor could I get BT connection to my Ipad. Yesterday I went back to the hanger and was not able to establish connection with the GDL39, even after going through the process of "forgetting all devices" and trying to pair. It picks up the GDL but does not pair.

Not a nice experience.

Johan
 
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After MENU, MENU, TOOLS, DATABASES, MENU, at the point of accepting or not to downgrade to v5.60 the page reads,

?Update Software
Replace current software with version 5.60? User data will be lost!?

Have any of you lost user data in this procedure? I?d hate to have to reprogram my G3X.

Thanks,
Craig
 
After MENU, MENU, TOOLS, DATABASES, MENU, at the point of accepting or not to downgrade to v5.60 the page reads,

?Update Software
Replace current software with version 5.60? User data will be lost!?

Have any of you lost user data in this procedure? I?d hate to have to reprogram my G3X.

Thanks,
Craig

Lost some settings. I.e. map north up, that sort of thing, did not lose any of the configuration items.

-Dan
 
No lost data.... not lost just repositioned

I had to go back into the display setup to move the engine instruments panel back to the left side of the screen, and the data bar at he top got shifted over to the other side.

Nothing lost, fixed the shifted display items in a couple of minutes.

AP works great again now, glad of that.

Thanks to the Garmin guys for the quick help.

Steve
 
Interesting

Have not read this post for a few days. We had uploaded 5.7 just after it came out and have flown a couple of CX runs in the last two weeks with Auto at the helm. We have not seen any thing a miss in those flights so far. I hesitate to change back if we don't need to before the next update comes out.
We will be watching to see if Garmin's guys find a fault in their software. This sounds iffy to us. Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
 
Have not read this post for a few days. We had uploaded 5.7 just after it came out and have flown a couple of CX runs in the last two weeks with Auto at the helm. We have not seen any thing a miss in those flights so far. I hesitate to change back if we don't need to before the next update comes out.
We will be watching to see if Garmin's guys find a fault in their software. This sounds iffy to us. Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888

After the update I flew for more than a hour, did 4 full coupled approaches and the AP worked as it should. I did this specifically to test the new update and verify correct function. The very next flight into IMC it failed. Don't let the current status put you completely at ease. It continued to fail at varying intervals. I have now re-loaded 5.6.

I also think this is a MAJOR issue when software leads to malfunction. It does affect choices (safety) if you KNOW up front about the problem. Just like you would not likely launch with a known faulty fuel pump (even though you have two), I would not knowingly launch into a long flight into IMC with a faulty AP. The workload of single pilot IFR is high. Therefore the discovery of this problem should be front page warnings wherever this is discussed.

I appreciate what Garmin is doing and the support they offer. We have your products and you have our loyalty. Please warn us as early as possible, very visibly and on all forums when things like this happens.

Johan
 
I have a couple thoughts on this, and software testing in general.

First, I worked as a software engineering for almost 15 years, so I know how hard (impossible?) it is to never have bugs in software.

Having said that, I'd like to make a couple observations/suggestions.

If you are planning a long trip, IFR flight, etc. Don't go with the latest version of the software until it has been out for a few weeks. Garmin has done a remarkable job of having very few serious bugs in new releases (I can think of only two counting this one since the release of the G3X Touch).

I'm guilty on the first one. I was so excited about the new features in 5.7 I upgraded, thinking I have a week until I need to make a serious trip, plenty of time to check it out. Fortunately I was able to down rev before the trip, but it was close.

I'd like to propose something that I think could help Garmin, and us out.

Have two releases of your software. A known stable release, and a new "Beta" release. For anyone that is strictly day VFR, or wants to experiment with the latest and greatest they can run it. Maybe add some logging/reporting capabilities into the software so you can collect data back. Garmin will quickly have a large base of people that will happily and willingly test your new releases, and corner cases better than you ever could internally.

The second release, would be back a level (or maybe two in some cases), but be a release that has been used for multiple months with no known issues.

This is a fairly common approach to software revision in industry, and while not perfect could offer advantages to both Garmin and us consumers.

-Dan
 
Experiencing issues as well

Test flew last night with 5.70. Had similar problems to what other's were experiencing. My GMC 307 indicator lights would randomly turn off and on. Never had the autopilot disconnect though, just false indications on the GMC 307. I did have an issue with the photocell not dimming one of the PFDs. I had to reboot the display in flight to get it to dim. I have an IFR flight coming up next week...Going to have revert back to 5.60 for now :mad:
 
I did not update to 5.7 - only because the plane is in the paint shop. However, I am intrigued by Jarod_Solomon's comment about the PFD dimming locking up. I am chasing a very similar dimming issue with Garmin technical support - so far to no avail. If you have any luck on this dimming issue, I would love to know. PM me if you want details on my experience (lots of variations) - I'm not ready for general discussion until Garmin has a chance at solving it.
 
While I haven't tried my (GX Pilot) AP on 5.70, I have noticed that screen refresh time is much longer than before and occasionally hangs. I haven't deleted my Track history in a while and all the dashed lines on screen which represent my tracks appear as huge fat fuzzy lines and then after a while go back to proper display.
 
G3X Touch Software

Any words on when we can expect a fix or should we all revert to 5.6? Just looking for a little guidance before moving forward/backward. Thanks!
 
5.70 touch

I flew with 5.7 yesterday, and noticed the touch interface wasn't as responsive as it was with my previous flights - meaning I would press buttons multiple times and they wouldn't register - or the would highlight, showing that I did press it - but it didn't activate. This was most prevalent when I was trying to type in the identifier for the waypoints
 
First, a quick reminder that we are flying experimental aircraft. If you want a higher level of reliability it is going to come with increased costs and and fewer options (i.e. the world of certified aircraft).

That said, I think Garmin has maintained a remarkable level of reliability considering their rapid pace of development with a relatively small team of people. I'm grateful that I have panel with capability and a price-point people only dreamed about 10 years ago.

One last note, I offered to do Beta testing for Garmin and they said their legal department will only let Garmin employees test software.
 
Easy fix for that, put some beta testers on the payroll :D

Absolutely! I had an opportunity to work for Garmin last year in their systems group doing new technology development. Great people, fantastic benefits, and a way to do what you love all day every day! Unfortunately the timing and location wasn't right for the rest of my family. It would have been fun to beta test the latest and greatest!
 
Version 5.90

Installed 5.90 this morning, all went well. G5 was the slowest to update, so advise go slow in the the shutdown and reboot of G3X as the G5 takes a while to receive and update software.

AP worked fine and no other issues detected.

G3X
G5
GTN625
GDL39
GTR20
307 and VP-X Pro

Steve
 
Looks to be OK

Installed 5.90 Friday afternoon and took it up for a flight. Everything appears to work smoothly, including the G5, GSA28 Servos and GMC-307 controller.
 
5.90

Flew 5.90 again today with AP, works as it should, thanks Garmin guys. No issues and no surprises.

Steve
 
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