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MGL V16 transceiver about to be released

Rainier Lamers

Well Known Member
The V6 and V10 radios where based on an original MGL design many years ago that was never put into production. Subsequently another South African company called South West electronics took on the original hardware design and packaged it into the V10 and then V6 formats. MGL itself provided the firmware. These radios where then sold under the MGL brand name.
This arrangement has come to an end a year ago. The V6 is still available through MGL Avionics in the USA but is no longer a branded MGL product. Ownership of the IP has passed to South West electronics.

Thus a year ago MGL started the design process of a new radio to be called the V16 - this time a true MGL product, fully designed and manufactured in house.
The first production batch of the V16 is now ready to be released.

Here are the bullet points:

1) 10W+ TX power, very high efficiency, low DC power needs.
2) Built in SWR meter for antenna checks and power measurents
3) World's first fully digital airband receiver, easily surpassing all required certification requirements for any receiver class. Based on direct conversion I/Q zero IF technology. No spurious receptions, excellent sensitivity, selectivity and large signal handling abilities. Very high audio quality, zero distortion. 8.33Khz and 25Khz channel spacing with full support for offset carrier operations in each.
4) Impulse noise detection and removal (removes typical ignition noise and many other noise sources from received signal).
5) Recording and simple playback of received transmissions.
6) Two circuit intercom, fully digital 24bits. Newly developed noise gating combines the best features of a traditional VOX and MGL's Vogad into a single, simple to use and highly effective system.
7) Independent RX and intercom volume controls.
8) Split module design. Transceiver body can be used stand alone with any MGL iEFIS G3 or combined with either a 2.14" head or a 3.1/8" head. Both heads are color and the larger one has a touch screen as well. You can also use multiple heads and connect to EFIS at the same time.
9) With any of the two heads, the V16 is protocol compatible with industry standard protocols (selectable in head setup). Note that NAV/COM protocol compatibility requires the MGL N16 navigation receiver which should be available by February.
10) Lowest cost of any COM transceiver available, combined with N16 lowest cost of any NAV/COM available.

Manuals including ICD for third party use at www.mglavionics.co.za/vhf.html

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
V6 trade in allowance ?

How much credit allowed to trade in my V6. Hopefully the 16 is MUCH easier to get functioning with regard to VOX/VOGAD /Hot mike options ?
 
How heavy is the smaller control head?

Is there any provision to mount the body directly to the head so that it doesn't need cables or a separate mount?

Thanks,
Dave
Rv-3B, now skinning the fuselage
 
How much credit allowed to trade in my V6. Hopefully the 16 is MUCH easier to get functioning with regard to VOX/VOGAD /Hot mike options ?

V6 is pretty simple to setup. Before you do you MUST make sure your microphone level is correct. The easiest way to do this is to press PTT on an unused frequency and talk - take note of the side tone level and compare with the level when the PTT is not pressed.
If the intercom (without PTT) sounds softer - increase the microphone gain, if it is louder, decrease it.

This is crucial so either the VOX or one of the Vogad systems operates at the designed levels.

Once that is done select the desired intercom (Vogad medium would usually be the one for an RV or use the VOX) and adjust the level until the cockpit noise goes away (usually done at cruise).

Note: If you have an ANR headset do NOT use the vogad. Use VOX.

The V16 now only has a single VOX setting. The Vogad is "woven" into the fabric of the VOX and operates only around the switching point (so it actually never switches hard). Also very tolerant to microphone levels - but they should still be set right of course for optimum performance.
The V16 has a really powerful processor able to perform around 200 million floating point operations per second peak - all the audio and receiver signal processing is done using maths - very fast and very accurate.
It's a different league to the V6 - also a nice reflection just how fast processors are developing and are getting quite scary actually...
2 years ago I could only dream of such a beast. Now I'm using them.

The V16 is a great radio - I'm quite proud of it if you will allow me that statement. It has cost me a year and a lot of gray hair. But it was worth it in the end.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
V6 is pretty simple to setup. Before you do you MUST make sure your microphone level is correct. The easiest way to do this is to press PTT on an unused frequency and talk - take note of the side tone level and compare with the level when the PTT is not pressed.
If the intercom (without PTT) sounds softer - increase the microphone gain, if it is louder, decrease it.

This is crucial so either the VOX or one of the Vogad systems operates at the designed levels.

Once that is done select the desired intercom (Vogad medium would usually be the one for an RV or use the VOX) and adjust the level until the cockpit noise goes away (usually done at cruise).

Note: If you have an ANR headset do NOT use the vogad. Use VOX.

The V16 now only has a single VOX setting. The Vogad is "woven" into the fabric of the VOX and operates only around the switching point (so it actually never switches hard). Also very tolerant to microphone levels - but they should still be set right of course for optimum performance.
The V16 has a really powerful processor able to perform around 200 million floating point operations per second peak - all the audio and receiver signal processing is done using maths - very fast and very accurate.
It's a different league to the V6 - also a nice reflection just how fast processors are developing and are getting quite scary actually...
2 years ago I could only dream of such a beast. Now I'm using them.

The V16 is a great radio - I'm quite proud of it if you will allow me that statement. It has cost me a year and a lot of gray hair. But it was worth it in the end.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics

<Need Like Button Here!> Thanks MGL! Putting V6 in my Sonerai IIL right now (the V16 sounds cool though ;-) )...
 
How heavy is the smaller control head?

Is there any provision to mount the body directly to the head so that it doesn't need cables or a separate mount?

Thanks,
Dave
Rv-3B, now skinning the fuselage

The Vega head is about the same weight as any of the other Vega instruments - around 50 grams or so. Very light. Any lighter and it would float...

No there is no plan to merge the heads and the body. There is so little wiring needed between head and body there is no real point. There is no separate mount or bracket needed as the body has simple mounting flanges.

The idea is to mount the body away from the panel anyway - which neatly takes the audio wiring away from the panel.

Also this is a fairly powerful transmitter with a guaranteed deep modulation (since it is all digital controlled). Makes sense to keep antenna cables short and away from anything else. The remote mount makes that possible.
Also shorter antenna cable means more power at the antenna - good quality RG58 looses around 0.35W per three foot (assuming 10W produced at 127Mhz). The V16 typically produces just under 12W (we just call it 10W as that is guaranteed).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
I sure hope it works better than my V6. Great vswr and unusable freqs all across the band. Didn?t really get anywhere with tech support. Been like that since the day is was installed a year and a half ago. Is there any trade in value?
 
I welcome this news from MGL. They are always innovating and bringing new products to market. I have experience with their Stratomaster altimeter/encoder instrument (pre Vega) and XTreme EMS engine monitor. I would even say that their EMS is the only electronic engine monitoring system I have flown behind that behaved very steady and well compared to the competition with constant connector issues and wonky indications. That's a subjective statement as engine monitoring systems are more sensitive to a proper installation than other aircraft instumenation. No issues with my EMS installation in a Pitts with the Stratomaster.

However, the main reason I am glad to hear they are now manufacturing their own in-house V16 transceiver is because of my experience with the V10. It was in a word, disappointing. Verging on awful. Once set up it was okay but not a radio for your average Joe pilot. I came away from the experience convinced that any future communication transceiver I buy has to be easy enough to use that my grandmother could turn it on, set the volume and transmit, regardless of headset. Kind of like the KY97A, Icom, GTR 200 or older legacy comms. Glad to hear the new V16 automates many of the settings so they are transparent to the user. It has to be better having MGL designing and building their own stuff rather than a vendor. And I would hasten to guess MGL is putting some of the valuable feedback concerning the earlier models to work with the V16.

Meanwhile I am very interested in seeing the unit. Some of y'all need to buy one and try it so we can get some reports from the field.

Jim
 
Rainer deserves a lot of respect

My comments regarding my V6 experience were probably uncomfortable for Rainer. Yet he responded with informative dialog and professional tone. Although an MGL user, my frustration with the V6 caused me to go with a G3x suite for latest project. That said, I would trade in my V6 for V16 at factory cost for my flying -3B.
 
V6 is pretty simple to setup. Before you do you MUST make sure your microphone level is correct. The easiest way to do this is to press PTT on an unused frequency and talk - take note of the side tone level and compare with the level when the PTT is not pressed.
If the intercom (without PTT) sounds softer - increase the microphone gain, if it is louder, decrease it.

Would you perform this adjustment on the ground (engine off) or in flight? Or does it make a difference.

I have a V6 in a very high-noise open cockpit and am still trying to tweak the settings.
 
My comments regarding my V6 experience were probably uncomfortable for Rainer. Yet he responded with informative dialog and professional tone. Although an MGL user, my frustration with the V6 caused me to go with a G3x suite for latest project. That said, I would trade in my V6 for V16 at factory cost for my flying -3B.

****THREAD DRIFT****
Larry,
My experience also caused me to go with the G3X in my latest product. Not only can I not use my v6 to talk to approach, my biggest driving force was due to the fact that the AHRS is completely unreliable. Altitude jumps all over and flying straight and level the ahrs just tilts side to side randomly. Absolutely useless. The altimeter on the MGL bounces around the same on the ground at zero airspeed the same as it bounces in the air. Flying straight and level Video https://youtu.be/aGaQXw0_Mig
 
Would you perform this adjustment on the ground (engine off) or in flight? Or does it make a difference.

I have a V6 in a very high-noise open cockpit and am still trying to tweak the settings.

The mic gain is done on the ground with engine off.

That makes sure the VOX or Vogad get the correct input levels so they work at their designed operating points.

The level of the VOX (or Vogad) is set in flight. Normally you find the right position and never touch it again.

Rainier
 
****THREAD DRIFT****
Larry,
My experience also caused me to go with the G3X in my latest product. Not only can I not use my v6 to talk to approach, my biggest driving force was due to the fact that the AHRS is completely unreliable. Altitude jumps all over and flying straight and level the ahrs just tilts side to side randomly. Absolutely useless. The altimeter on the MGL bounces around the same on the ground at zero airspeed the same as it bounces in the air. Flying straight and level Video https://youtu.be/aGaQXw0_Mig

OK you have the Explorer Lite there. This has a built in AHRS but has support for an external one in case the internal one cannot be used. The AHRS (like all of them) is sensitive to vibration which in some cases makes installation into a panel problematic. Fitting an external one like our SP-7 or the high grade SP-9 fixes that.

But before you do that - go into your AHRS setup menu (on the ground) and select to reset the gyro biases - check if that fixes the issue.

if the horizon does not behave with the aircraft stationary and after you have done the bias reset then we need to replace that gyro chip.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
I sure hope it works better than my V6. Great vswr and unusable freqs all across the band. Didn?t really get anywhere with tech support. Been like that since the day is was installed a year and a half ago. Is there any trade in value?

Unusual - what do you mean with unusable frequencies ? No RX, interference on some frequencies or problems with TX on some frequencies (like howling, echo or distortion) ?

Answer will have to wait until Monday, preparing to leave to spend a few days in hospital (nothing serious, just one of those "male" things...).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
The V16 and Razor head has now been shipping for a week or so.
I have updated the website at www.MGLAvionics.co.za/vhf.html with more info and also internals of the V16 with a description of what is going on inside. The V16 is quite a bit more "open" than our previous radios which the techies among you may appreciate.

I am not in control of pricing in countries other than my own. In the U.S. I'd expect a price in the $1000 region including the Razor touch screen head. A bit under with the 2.25" head and a lot under if you connect it to an iEFIS as head.

Here in South Africa, from the factory the price is R6759 for the V16 and R3237 for the Razor head. These are South African Rands and include the 14% sales tax applicable here. The Vega head should be available in February - it has entered production now and I'd estimate a price of around R2500.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
$1000USD sounds pretty good and that's a 33% markup for the US dealer, and I'm sure they aren't paying the SA retail price.

Anyone get pricing and availability out of MGl USA yet? I haven't, but I have some time before I need to purchase a radio.
 
Now you have my attention. The price is good but the Razor control head looks simply awesome. I just perused the Razor control head manual. MGL has not been resting on it's laurels. A very intriguing user interface. I think they have been listening to their customers about simplifying advanced technology. And then some. All the while 10watts out. Control panels in parallel (front and back in a tandem). CAN bus. This is very hard to ignore. I love the innovation and keeping competition alive in the marketplace. The V16 might show up in one of my panels soon.

Jim
 
I would love to hear more about the upcoming N16 nav radio.

Rainier - when you have a moment to spare, would you mind sharing here an outline of the N16's capabilities and interfaces, please?
 
I would love to hear more about the upcoming N16 nav radio.

Rainier - when you have a moment to spare, would you mind sharing here an outline of the N16's capabilities and interfaces, please?

Sure,
bit of history first. I wanted a NAV radio for a long time. But with our previous arrangement (where a third party was doing the hardware implementation and production) nothing ever happened. Just talk and dummy prototypes for Oshkosh. That was embarrassing me no end.
Anyway, that changed.
The V16 was also supposed to be the PCB for the NAV radio (just leave out the transmitter and fit another filter for the glide slope and different firmware). That did come to pass (so the N16 does exist) but I decided to make a dedicated PCB for it to simplify manufacturing (and it also allowed a more optimized input stage for the receiver without having to compromise).
The production prototype is currently being put together - I'll still fiddle with the software a bit but the actual NAV stuff is done (and working to an exceptional degree of accuracy due to fully digital, drift free implementation. There are times I just love applied maths. This is one of those times).

So what does it do ? Quite boring really - ILS, glide slope and VOR. Dual VOR or single ILS with glide slope. Station morse decoder, the usual audio out (that nobody really uses). Pretty similar to what your run of the mill NAV radio is supposed to do...

If you are not planning to connect it to an MGL EFIS - via either the Razor or Vega head you have RS232 emulating a you know who NAV radio and if you spring for a V16 as well - then it looks just like your standard old NAV/COM. In the control head select if it should look like a older SL30 or one of the newer types.

Price - since it is basically a V16 minus the transmitter parts - it follows it should be somewhat less than a V16...

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
They sound interesting

I'd like em both. How can I order here in the US?
 
Last edited:
It's taken awhile for me to respond to Rainier's post. Mostly because I can hardly believe what I've read. We might finally have a GOOD nav radio that doesn't have you-know-who's brand name on it. This is exciting!

Thank you, Rainier, for sharing these details, and for pushing ahead with this project.
 
Vega UI

Robert,
Hey I was wondering if the UI on vega comm head supported channels like the V6. The v6 UI works great for my use.

Thanks
 
Robert,
Hey I was wondering if the UI on vega comm head supported channels like the V6. The v6 UI works great for my use.

Thanks

Yes it has - the Vega gives you 50 channels but can also be used in channel modes when certain GPS systems are connected that can download airport based frequency lists - in which case the channel selection is two stage - select airport, then select desired frequency. If only one airport has been downloaded by the GPS then step one is skipped.

The Razor is similar but gives you 100 channels (the processor used has more memory...).

The N16 NAV radio is looking good, ready to put into production now - just need to get Ria to work on the BOMs and get production scheduled. We tried out a new contract manufacturer and used them on the V16 first time. A smaller company but very keen on the work - they did a very nice job so I will be using them on the N16 as well.
Firmware is at the stage which you could call "refinement". Mostly a lot of tweaking and testing against DO-196, DO-195 and DO-192. Quite time consuming stuff.

Once that is out of the way my grubby paws are itching to finish the T16 1090 ES transponder - that is in built up prototype stage with some firmware implemented but I have not fired up the 200W transmitter yet - will need to take a deep breath before I do that - those things are really expensive.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
This sounds great and the timing is perfect for me. Might end up with V16, N16 and T16 in my 14. :D

Rainier, would you mind also writing some more about the MGL ECB (probably best in a new thread), have I understood it correctly that with that installed, I can not only use the MGL ECB switch kit but basically any simple switch like a button on my Tosten grip to turn on/off devices with this?

A little of topic but since you asked it here - a quick answer: Yes. As long as the switch you are using is of the "latching" type and not a momentary push button (unless of course that is what you intend).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
I've just fitted an iEFIS Explorer in my aircraft but am pondering VHF com replacement options. It currently has a reputable, but notoriously ignition-noise sensitive com radio (and a fairly noisy big fat round engine) which a huge amount of expensive and fruitless troubleshooting has been done on.

If the V16 has a good ignition noise filter it would very much perk my interest, as well as integrate perfectly with the EFIS and a replacement control head (the Vega). I think I'll wait for some pireps though. Been burned before, being an early adopter with other brands!
 
I've just fitted an iEFIS Explorer in my aircraft but am pondering VHF com replacement options. It currently has a reputable, but notoriously ignition-noise sensitive com radio (and a fairly noisy big fat round engine) which a huge amount of expensive and fruitless troubleshooting has been done on.

If the V16 has a good ignition noise filter it would very much perk my interest, as well as integrate perfectly with the EFIS and a replacement control head (the Vega). I think I'll wait for some pireps though. Been burned before, being an early adopter with other brands!

Ignition noise is a bummer. Mostly caused by lack of suitably damped plugs and/or leads.

It is always better to fix the source of the noise than to try and fiddle with the effects.

Having said that - the V16 is particularly good with this kind of issue due to its digital receiver which allowed the implementation of an impulse suppressor. This kind of circuitry (using actual electronic components) has been used in airband radios before - most notably early Icom radios where it is quite effective (I had one of those which is why I re-looked at this). Using digital signal processing it is possible to do a much better job. Impulses caused by ignition spikes have a very distinct shape so it is fairly easy to remove the effects almost completely. It's even better than that. During the development of the V16 my office had its neon tube lights replaced by LED tubes. Immediately this caused problems - these tubes radiate pretty badly and I used to switch the lights off when I was working on the radio - the lights would add at least 10-20db of noise to the received signal and it was quite nasty (I used an antenna indoors - I am about 30 miles from Cape Town International airport). Once I had the impulse suppressor in place the effect was quite dramatic - I could no longer hear the lights and RX was much improved with weak signals.

Now that is all fine and well BUT - it still means we are receiving unwanted signals at the tuned frequency. It does affect overall sensitivity somewhat still - the noise floor is raised and your squelch will need a different setting (The V16 has a semi-automatic squelch so it does it for you).

While it is nice that the receiver does all this - it is much better to kill the problem at the source as that will maintain the otherwise excellent sensitivity of the V16.

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
Ignition noise is a bummer. Mostly caused by lack of suitably damped plugs and/or leads.

It is always better to fix the source of the noise than to try and fiddle with the effects.
Yes we've certainly tried a number of things, short of wrapping the entire system (leads, coils etc) in alfoil. This is an M14P with automotive plugs and electronic ignition. The leads are high quality shielded Taylor leads, yet still the noise occasionally breaks through squelch and has done since new.

Another operator with the same VHF com and similar installation also reports occasional breakthrough problems, but other com radios don't seem to be as susceptible, which I find interesting.

In any case, my existing VHF com is a very saleable brand and it might be worth replacing it and integrating the V16 with my Explorer Lite and seeing how it goes.
 
In any case, my existing VHF com is a very saleable brand and it might be worth replacing it and integrating the V16 with my Explorer Lite and seeing how it goes.

There are many variables in the design of a receiver that can influence this - it does not necessarily mean that your radio is worse than others - in fact, it may be better. A more sensitive radio, a radio with a larger bandwidth or a radio with a fast acting squelch will react to these pulses negatively - but in the absence of these interfering signals may well be better than a radio that does not react to the interference.

There is an interesting NASA report ion some research involving navigation receivers and interference (mostly from FM broadcast sources) which states that the most sensitive receivers where more affected (which makes a lot of sense of course). Partly based on this report my challenge was to make a navigation radio that would be sensitive yet robust with respect to interference. It can be done but you effectively have to throw away the traditional superhet receiver if you want to keep things manageable and embrace new ways of making receivers which avoid some of the issues by fundamental design. Luckily - just that is now possible using some relatively newly released chips and an almost enormous amount of pretty complex maths. As I mentioned earlier - a completely ridiculous effort to produce a simple AM receiver in the most complicated way possible. But once done, bits and bytes are cheap and the result is quite respectable...

Rainier
 
Rainier when will this radio be available in North America?

A batch of V16 receivers has been with Matt since about mid December (that is with MGL Avionics USA in California). They have just reopened after the holidays so I assume they would be shipping now.
The N16 has just been released for production a few days ago - usually takes 3 to 4 months to first shipping unless there is an issue getting hold of some components - don't think there are any shortages at this point since it shares much of the circuitry with the V16.

I'll probably send off a N16 in the next two or three weeks for FCC (not strictly required but makes it easier to get these things through customs).

Rainier
CEO MGL Avionics
 
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