What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

MGL

PVS

Member
Greeting and Happy Holidays
Anyone have experience with MGL products more specifically the exploree lite efis unit
 
I installed a dual iEFIS system some years back. It's never worked right, the factory support is non existent and the docs are poor. I personally would never buy MGL again.
 
I installed the challenger lite in my old rv4. Got almost everything working well except autopilot. Could never get it functioning correctly and not a lot of help out there. Also installed 4" extreme and could never get the ahrs part to work right.
 
Greeting and Happy Holidays
Anyone have experience with MGL products more specifically the exploree lite efis unit
I have exactly that unit and have had virtually the opposite experience to FasGlas.

Mine’s installed in a Pitts biplane with a 9 cylinder radial. It gets thrown around a lot and works every time. The guy who installed it for me said the installation was one of the easier EFIS installations he had done, including a lot of engine monitoring inputs.

Support via email or phone is best through MGL USA but software/firmware updates and documents are mostly via the MGL South Africa website. Documentation is a problem because it’s spread across many documents and the structure is not entirely logical, and there’s a distinct lack of indexing/hyper-linking/cross referencing. Aircraft documentation is one of my specialties from a past life and I once started a total reorganisation of the MGL iEFIS documentation but I have a day job I need to do to pay my mortgage and the project has been idle for quite some time. I know exactly what needs to be done but it’s a big job and I just don’t have the time right now. This doesn’t change the fact I’m happy with the EFIS hardware though.
 
I'm well aware of the MGL users site. I post there under the same login name as you see here and you don't have to search very hard to see where I've tried to assist other users or given my opinion when opinions were asked for, as we are doing here.

The MGL users site is not created by, run by, or affiliated with MGL Avionics, unlike for example the Dynon support forum. It states that very clearly on the intro page. Yet I've had questions on the Dynon forums unanswered too (which admittedly is uncommon, but it still happened). I live a long way from the USA and unless I get up at 5am or something stupid and my crappy bandwidth allows a reasonably clear Skype call, it's not so cheap & easy to phone tech support.

Part of the problem is that they are a much smaller company, they're outside the USA, and consequently have far fewer customers than the "big guns" in US experimental avionics, so you simply don't get company-run forums with fifty trillion employees and users able to "pounce" on questions and give you instant answers.
 
I am very happy with the MGL radio and MGL Odyssey EFIS I have had in my RV8 since 2011. Matt has always provided great support. They are in fact a small South African company limited in the number of employees they may have by political considerations. But the MGL products I have used are rich in features at a reasonable price.
 
Iefis

I bought the MGL Voyager when they first were introduced in 2009 and used it in my RV7a. Had a few problems but not anything major that would keep me from flying. Didn't have the financial situation to change systems so kept what I had. I liked having the AP, and engine monitoring back the when other companies didn't offer it. When MGL came with the IEFIS, I bought the Explorer and installed the can bus system. It cleaned up a lot of the problems and I am happy now with what I have. I have never flown behind any other EFIS so nothing to compare with. I expect Garmin would be my next choice if I would sell what I have want to over.
 
I?ve been working with MGL and Rainier for some 12 years now and I?m a very satisfied MGL user. I first Installed the Odyssey and MGL autopilot and G430W and ADSB in our RV6 some 8 years ago, ran just fine. Building a RV8 now (almost done) and it has dual iEFIS systems with MGL autopilot, G5 standby attitude, plus G430W and ADSB, integration is complete and engine runs have had no MGL issues. I also have the MGL SP-9 ring gyro and magnetometer. A unique AHRS technology system not available from any other EFIS company. The iEfis system is phenomenal, it boots up in less than 1 second, yes 1 second!! And - Yes documentation could be much better, but I get plenty of help when I need it from Matt, the MGL forum and sometimes from Rainier.

I also support the MGL users by creating the annual USA map release for the MGL Users forum, and another member provides the FAA Nav data base updates on the FAA time cycle, all data bases updates are free. I?m a believer in designing my own EFIS screens and enjoy being able to do that with the MGL screen designer. I have recorded ARINC DATA from my RV6 flights that I can playback on my MGL simulator and screen designer on my PC while I create, modify, and test the changes with actual flight data. I worked F35 flight test for some 15 years and there are some F35 screen setups I?ve included in my RV8. I?m also a firm believer in the Aural (On Speed) AOA project I?m involved with and Rainier wrote into the MGL SW several years ago the ability to just add a simple text file script to allow me to fine tune my AOA tone output to match what I used to have in the F4 without needing any external tone device. I?ve also built a HUD that fully integrates with the MGL serial instrument and NAV data stream in a way the Dynon and Garmin just can?t do. All cutting edge stuff that I can create and integrate due to the flexibility of the system design.

I have installed several G3x systems for folks that cost likely 3 times more than my MGL did, nice systems but wiring nightmares and they lack the screen and system customization options I get with my MGL system. NASA came to me this summer at Oshkosh with some MGL set up and integration issues they had with a new test project they had in a one of a kind MGL autopilot system installed in a Cessna 400, Rainier had added some special code in the MGL that allowed a NASA computer to take control of the autopilot and force the plane to climb if the computer thought the plane was going to fly into terrain. It was a safety project. It took 2 e-mails with Rainier to get the issues fixed. NASA had told me they had first talked with Garmin but were given a big NO with their request, but little old MGL was flexible enough to add them to their unique user list (at no extra SW development cost to the government).

Reliability? I?ve had no issues, but have helped several folks over the years get through MGL set up issues and sometimes they have to send things back to Torrance (MGL USA) to get things fixed. But this is not unique to MGL.

About a month ago my neighbor had all the peripherals in his G3x stop working, after a day of troubleshooting we discovered his AHRS had died and it was killing his whole Canbus network. So Garmin had to fix that.

Bottom line is the MGL is just not for everybody, it has tremendous flexibility that can turn folks off, and make setup and integration harder, documentation is less than perfect. But everyone has a choice as to the systems they get and hopefully this forum will help folks make the right decision.

Cecil
 
Cecil says it best !

His last paragraph accurately describes the MGL environment. It really helps if you are electronically savvy and adventurous. I felt Rainer was just too smart for us “normal” folks to follow and crammed too much “cool” into the package for me to handle.
That said, I may find my my G3x too “flexible” for my capabilities. Steam ��
 
Last edited:
Well, there ya go.... Some like MGL, some don't like MGL. Some systems work, some systems don't work. Rainier may help you, Rainier may ignore you. Some will purchase MGL again, some will never purchase MGL again. If you don't mind trading the cheaper price for the added problems than you're good. If you want strong factory support, decent docs and a large base of users to help you.... Well, MGL is not for you.
 
If you don't mind trading the cheaper price for the added problems than you're good. If you want strong factory support, decent docs and a large base of users to help you.... Well, MGL is not for you.
And some of us have had no added problems, think there's good factory support, docs, and a large enough user base. Goes to show, you can't please everyone.
 
I don't think it's any cheaper than other similar EFIS 's, except maybe for the big G. What Cecil said about MGL is accurate. Being electronically savvy or curious enough to figure it out certainly helps
 
I don't think it's any cheaper than other similar EFIS 's, except maybe for the big G. What Cecil said about MGL is accurate. Being electronically savvy or curious enough to figure it out certainly helps

Hmmm, I've spent most of my life working in electronics, computer networks and IT, built many experimental's, I'm an A&P and and IA. My iEFIS system has never worked right, I've troubleshot everything there is to troubleshoot. Diagnosis: MGL products have bugs, Rainier ignores them. FACT.
 
Hmmm, I've spent most of my life working in electronics, computer networks and IT, built many experimental's, I'm an A&P and and IA. My iEFIS system has never worked right, I've troubleshot everything there is to troubleshoot. Diagnosis: MGL products have bugs, Rainier ignores them. FACT.
I've spent over 30 years in military and civil aviation. If you really want to see bugs, take delivery of a new "fully certified" aircraft type.

I remember many years ago taking delivery of one particular new military aircraft variant (the successor model to several earlier variations) produced by one of the huge US aerospace manufacturers. Software problems. Mechanical problems. Excessive vibration. Took several years to iron them out and we couldn't even clear it to do what it was supposed to do operationally until there were two major software upgrades in the first year. I guess that's what you get for a bargain basement $60 million per aircraft (plus spares/support etc).

Then comes the civil world. Should've seen the bugs in the Boeing 747-400 when it turned up! Again, years to sort out. And the Airbus, don't even get me started (again from personal experience). Newbie Airbus pilot: "what the heck is it doing?" Veteran Airbus pilot: "Oh yeah it just does that sometimes."
 
Here's just an average guy's opinion between two highly experienced guys. I have the Challenger lite temporarily installed in an RV6 later to be installed in an M14p powered Moose. I didn't think much of it at first but now I like its customizability. I don't have it running an autopilot or engine monitor since it is temporary. I'm using it for navigation only. So far what saved it for me is Dutchroll's instructional videos. And thanks for that DR! I've spent many hours on the laptop making up instruments, maps and screens using the simulator software. I'm pretty sure anyone can go to their site and download the sim software and judge it for themself. The menus are not that intuitive to me and take a little getting used to, but I might think the same of a Garmin? I am probably average as far as computers go and that's where Dutchroll saved this thing for me. I've suggested to MGL to make some instructional videos like Dutchroll has done to cover more of the system how to's but it hasn't happened yet. Too bad! I believe a lot of people would try their EFIS if good instructions were available. Videos go a long way if you're not real computer savvy.
I guess I'll know more when the rest is hooked up.
 
The way I see it is: This is MGL's structure. CEO - Rainier, Designer - Rainier, Software Developer - Rainier, Support - Rainier, Documents - Rainier, Factory - South Africa. You have one source and one man for everything MGL. Now, I'm not knocking Rainier's abilities, he's a smart guy and thinks outside the box. Rainier's problem is he takes no interest in dealing with customers and problems, nor will he add any smart people to join MGL to advance development and support. Sure Rainier pops onto the forum every so often to see what's not working, that he won't address, or view suggestions from pilots that he'll never implement. And Rainier can do as he pleases, but MGL had a very long reputation for poor support, bugs and poor documents long before I got involved, and I knew this going in. So I guess it's on me, as well. Matt, USA MGL, is as good guy and very helpful, to a point, but can only swap parts. Matt does not design hardware or software. MGL's EFIS's have far more configurable inputs, outputs and screen options than the competition but it's attraction ends there. When I was looking into installing the iEFIS I asked a friend of mine, who's business is installing avionics, what he thought of MGL EFIS's. He said it best; "MGL is like building your own computer system, you put in all the components, install the software and you get what you get". And that's just what I got. OAT 20 degrees too high, EGT's 200 degrees too low, fuel flow never worked (3 Red Cubes, 2 RDACs), compass turns sideways every so often (2 compass's), other temps questionable, Data viewer is a joke, poor documents for the screen designer (just got to figure it out on your own), auto pilot never worked well, etc. And all I've ever gotten from Rainier is "Crickets". Fool me once.....

I'm not saying that the other EFIS companies don't have their bugs and problems but the main difference between them and MGL is they have support "people", not a non support "person". The others take the input and make their products better and add more features. MGL.. Not so much.
 
Last edited:
I don't think it's any cheaper than other similar EFIS 's, except maybe for the big G.

It's not and the Garmin experimental products are very competitive compared apples to apples with the rest of the offerings on the market. Leave out the expensive certified IFR navigators/radios and the whole market is pretty much a wash between brands with very little delta between similar setups.
 
I wonder if more people would go Garmin if the Database updates on the g3x were free. I get charging for the 650 but how many people skip the G3X over the databases?
 
I wonder if more people would go Garmin if the Database updates on the g3x were free. I get charging for the 650 but how many people skip the G3X over the databases?

Compared to most stuff in aviation, $149.00/yr seems insignificant. Just by observing the large number of new Garmin panels posted on FB by Stein and others, not sure that $149.00/yr is making much of an impact on sales.
 
Last edited:
It's not and the Garmin experimental products are very competitive compared apples to apples with the rest of the offerings on the market. Leave out the expensive certified IFR navigators/radios and the whole market is pretty much a wash between brands with very little delta between similar setups.

Bingo. Back in 2016 when I started pricing glass panel equipment I went in with the assumption that Garmin would always be more the expensive package as they are to 900 pound gorilla. I was astounded when I priced out similar configurations from different manufacturers, taking into account items that were options on one system that were included on others and leveling the playing field.... Garmin was slightly less than Dynon (but a wash in practical sense). I had to run the numbers again to confirm.

I would say if you plan to keep your RV forever then go with whichever system you prefer. Such as the prior post where someone went Dynon/AFS based on Oshkosh booth experience. I too have been to the Garmin booth only to talk to people in blue shirts who didn't know something from shinola. Frustrating to the point of just had to laugh.

Now, if you ever plan to sell your aircraft then there is no question G3X brings more resale value. At least at the time of this writing. I have seen it time an again where buyers jump on G3X without hesitation whereas there can be concern with any other brand equipment. It may not be fair but the used market is fickle and Garmin gets a big check mark from potential buyers, both certified and experimemtal.

Jim
 
All true. I went full Garmin in my 14A and it works really well. There are things I would change but not because something doesn't work!
 
Matt, USA MGL, is as good guy and very helpful, to a point, but can only swap parts.
Untrue. Matt helped us solve several problems including wiring, software setup, and RDAC setup, none of which involved swapping parts. If you want to truly know what it's like to "only swap parts", work as an avionics engineer for a major airline. Most fixes for a system problem involve taking out a black box and putting in a new one from the store. And if you reckon the manufacturers provide a free exchange unit out of the kindness of their hearts, you're living in a fantasy world. We are often spoiled in the experimental world. Really spoiled.

When we (ie, my current employer) had an Airbus with 300 passengers randomly pitch down from a stable cruise giving the pilots a "face-full" of water (they were over the ocean) and with enough force to cause some unseated passengers' heads to punch through the actual aircraft cabin ceiling, the cause was eventually isolated to a design software fault in an air data computer. Makes my erratic tach reading necessitating an RDAC replacement really look like an insignificant problem.

The others take the input and make their products better and add more features. MGL.. Not so much.
You gotta be kidding me if you think MGL doesn't fix bugs, improve things, and add more features. Take a look at the iEFIS firmware update page and the release notes for each update. Seriously, read them. I accept you've had a bad experience and are voicing it here. But it's not the experience of everyone by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Last edited:
MGL V6

I installed an MGL V6 radio in my -7 which first flew in 2014, 350 hrs ago. When I first received the unit, I wondered if I had received an empty box as the unit weighs only about 4 oz. and is very compact.

I did have a few problems initially which I finally traced to a noisy HID power supply. While I as trouble shooting that issue, Matt provided a replacement unit, but I really did not need it. For me, it is a great little radio and interfaces nicely with my Skyview. The V6 has been flawless in 350 hrs.

I am happy with this unit and MGL's service.

Warren RV-7
n671CW
Minneapolis
 
Back
Top