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SDS CPI2

What will a dual cpi2 install look like from panel

Ross, I?m curious what a dual CPI2 install will look like from the cockpit? Besides the nice controller panel you?ve shown, would there be individual switches for each CPI (like mags) that would just be turned on prior to starting? What is the appropriate depth of the panel controller (could it be mounted on center tunnel of rv-14)? Also the backup battery you?ve mentioned, is this mounted separately and if so how large is it? How often will it need to be replaced?

Thanks and looking forward to your new product.

Rob
 
Ross, I?m curious what a dual CPI2 install will look like from the cockpit? Besides the nice controller panel you?ve shown, would there be individual switches for each CPI (like mags) that would just be turned on prior to starting? What is the appropriate depth of the panel controller (could it be mounted on center tunnel of rv-14)? Also the backup battery you?ve mentioned, is this mounted separately and if so how large is it? How often will it need to be replaced?

Thanks and looking forward to your new product.

Rob

The panel mount portion is 1.05 inches deep but you'd want to allow about 3.5 inches behind the panel for the serial cables to exit and turn 90 degrees.

Yes, the backup battery is mounted separately. The tray is 4.4 inches tall, about 5 inches long and 2.8 inches wide, the battery is 3.8 X 3.1 X 2.15. I'd replace these at 3-5 year intervals. They are inexpensive Powersonic AGMs widely available on Amazon, Ebay etc.
 
CPI to CPI2

Ross,
Is there an exchange option for trading unused CPI for CPI2 ? I could incorporate CPI2 in my small -4 panel. Otherwise my two CPI's will need to go somewhat remote. :(
 
No, they are completely different animals in almost every respect. The main demands were to take up less panel real estate, ditch the green, protect from OV and integrate a dedicated backup power source so that required all different architecture.
 
The CPI2 looks great Ross.

I have all the firewall forward parts two ignitions (IO-360). All I need is a dual CPI2 controller, a dual remote module the battery tray and related wiring harnesses if any. Are you prepared to take orders yet?
 
No, we are still repeating many of the tests on the production parts as a number of alterations were made from the 2nd prototypes. We don't want to release anything until we're satisfied all goals are met. Otherwise that could just bite us in the butt down the road.

You'll see an announcement here and on a new CPI-2 Page on our site when we're ready to start taking orders. We have quite a waiting list as well and we'll be taking care of those orders in sequence first. You're on that list somewhere but I don't have it in front of me today.
 
Testing on the production hardware continued this week. Today Barry ran the full system including coils and spark plugs at 8000 rpm for 3 hours and nothing was getting hot to the touch. We'll do some thermal imaging to confirm everything on the board is staying cool.

We'll continue to put more bench running hours on the whole system over the weekend.

He tweaked some code which will cut current draw if the primary battery goes down and added some other software options to cut this further to extend flying time on the backup battery.

Did a bunch of EMI, RFI testing including running the plug wires on top of the controller and next to the programmer. No glitching.

Should be able to run the system on our test engine next week, weather permitting.

Thank you to all the folks who already lined up to purchase a CPI-2. Initial production is almost sold out now. We'll put a larger, 2nd production run of boards in motion before the end of January to meet demand.
 
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Ross - for a non-owner of CPI trying to make the decision about model choice, can you give a quick rundown of the delta between CPI and CPI2 for functionality? What are the differences that would lead to a choice between them?
 
Ross - for a non-owner of CPI trying to make the decision about model choice, can you give a quick rundown of the delta between CPI and CPI2 for functionality? What are the differences that would lead to a choice between them?

The CPI2 has better over voltage protection, backup battery solution with auto switchover and warning, more programmable settings, serial output for data logging is available.

With the remote mounted controllers, the panel space for the programmer is much reduced, especially when dual controllers are used. (single programmer can talk to dual controllers). The panel LCD is larger (12 X 2 characters).

Downsides are costs are substantially higher but still in line with other EI choices which aren't easily user programmable and have less capability. Weight and total volume is higher on the CPI2.

As I said previously, we plan to produce both since there is still good demand for the CPI as it's light, compact, capable and relatively inexpensive. Not everyone wants or needs all the new features in the CPI2.

I started on a new CPI2 webpage 3 weeks ago which will outline all the new capabilities and but don't want to upload it until all testing of the production parts are completed successfully. I don't subscribe to releasing glowing reviews of vaporware before the product exists and has substantial testing behind it. This thread covered some of the difficulties faced during development and the solutions found. We don't sugar coat things- this was a very challenging product to develop.
 
Glad you're sticking with both products... The original CPI is an outstanding system, forgetting for a moment its the lowest price EI option out there.
 
How do I get added to the waiting list?

I'm not sure about a single or dual setup, but I most certainly want a CPI-2 system.
 
Thermal Imaging Tests

We completed the IR imaging tests on the production CPI-2 board today and all concerns from the prototype boards have be rectified. Nothing gets over 50C.



Controller running coils at 6000 rpm. The thru hole regulator is now heat sunk to the chassis and runs nice and cool as opposed to the SMT component we first tried.



6 cylinder coil pack running at 6000 rpm. Center of coil pack and spark plugs (upper part of photo) show the highest temps.



This one was just for fun

We ran the system up to 11,000 rpm for 20 minutes. This is about the limit for things staying adequately cool. Nothing even gets warm at 2700 rpm. Barry added back a bunch of ozone to the atmosphere with all this bench running...

We are adding a few more features in software now which we thought would be nice. Engine tests will be coming soon.
 
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This photo shows the CPI-2 programmer in gauge mode with the fault light illuminated, LOP mode activated (adding timing to bring peak cylinder pressure to the optimal point with the slower burning mixture), running off the main battery source and programmer is accessing controller 'A' CPU.

The weather turned cold and snowy this week meaning we couldn't run the system on our test engine so Barry cleaned up and tested the data logging software instead. This will log data to a laptop or Windows tablet for diagnostics or tuning. He also did some final testing on the OV protection features.

We had our contractor girl working on programmers and controller boards this week and we've inventoried coils, drivers, sensors, connectors, CNC'd parts and other bits to build complete kits for those on our waiting list.
 
Data Logging

Here's a shot of the data logging screen in the gauge mode.



You can save and print your ignition maps from here too.
 
Engine Runs

Our warm (0C) weather is coming to an end tomorrow so we wanted to get some engine testing in today. Still mighty brisk standing in the prop blast for very long. Frozen to the marrow but happy with the results.

The O-200 started right up with an EM-5 doing the fueling and dual CPI-2 running both sets of plugs. We did some noise testing and switched battery sources plus ran through all the functions. The engine never skipped a beat.

We logged the runs on the PC to look at later inside.

Short clip here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykeNFBLUYEg&feature=youtu.be
 
We've been rather busy with other sales so far this year which keeps impacting the for sale date of the CPI-2 unfortunately. Production hardware is sitting on the bench here but the documentation isn't finished yet.

All initial production is spoken for so it's looking like new orders on the 2nd production batch won't happen until late March at the earliest.

We are shipping FWF components to some customers starting this week so they can continue with the build process.
 
There will be 4 different models offered initially:

Single controller 4 cyl. $1656US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 4 cyl. $2628US (fires two sets of plugs)
Single controller 6 cyl. $1960US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 6 cyl. $3160US (fires two sets of plugs)

Our backup battery tray and wiring will be a $140 option on all. You'll be able to order the common Powersonic AGM battery from Amazon or Ebay very inexpensively.
 
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Pricing published above. We'll be uploading some initial information on a new web page starting next week. I'll post a link here when that's up.

Thanks for everyone's patience and interest on the CPI-2.
 
There will be 4 different models offered initially:

Single controller 4 cyl. $1656US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 4 cyl. $2628US (fires two sets of plugs)
Single controller 6 cyl. $1960US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 6 cyl. $3160US (fires two sets of plugs)

Our backup battery tray and wiring will be a $140 option on all. You'll be able to order the common Powersonic AGM battery from Amazon or Ebay very inexpensively.



Ross,

I already purchased and received the CPI firewall forward components for a dual ignition 4 cylinder system. I have no controller.

I believe I will only need the CPI2 (Dual 4 Cylinder) controller and battery tray to getting it running on my Titan IO-360.

Do the above costs include all the firewall forward components needed for a complete functional ignition system?

If so, what is the cost of just the dual 4 cylinder CPI2 controller alone/without the firewall forward components?

I sent you an email.
 
Prices above are for the whole setup. I sent you a quote by email for what you need to complete.

Got the email. Thank you for the usual quick complete response. Also, thank you for all the transparency in design and testing of this product. Looking forward to the benefits of an SDS CPI2 Ei.
 
Backup Battery



Here's the backup battery tray with the 2.9 AH Powersonic AGM battery in place. Mounts with up to six 10-32 fasteners (supplied) in two planes, through the base and side.

Uses one or two ATO fuses at the base to supply power to the CPI-2 PCBs.
 
Here's the backup battery tray with the 2.9 AH Powersonic AGM battery in place. Mounts with up to six 10-32 fasteners (supplied) in two planes, through the base and side.

Uses one or two ATO fuses at the base to supply power to the CPI-2 PCBs.

Sorry if you mentioned it earlier, but what's the runtime on that battery?
 
Depends on many factors. The unit can cut coil charge times when operating on the backup and even shut off one coil if voltage starts getting critical. When one coil is shut down, the unit will advance timing on the remaining one to give better power and fuel economy and keep the EGTs down. This amount is programmable.

On a 4 cylinder, it will run 2 coil packs (all 8 plugs) for about 1 hour at 2400 rpm.

On a 6 cylinder, about 40 minutes.

With the full intervention of shutting down one coil pack, double these figures roughly.

The idea is to get you safely back on the ground. For those who want longer run periods, you can install a higher capacity battery.

We wanted to go with an AGM rather than Lithium as they can be safely cabin mounted and are more abuse tolerant.

The CPI-2 can be set up to charge and look at battery voltage thresholds for either battery chemistry in deciding when and what to do with charge and switchover.

The controller will throw an aural alert as well as a visual alert on the display.



The photo above shows power source as main battery, the Fault LED is on and the display will tell you what that is, programmer is accessing controller 'A' and LOP feature is engaged to advance timing.

The unit monitors main and backup battery voltage states at all times and will switch back to the one with highest voltage automatically.

The system charges the backup battery automatically so it's always topped up.
 
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...The unit can cut coil charge times when operating on the backup and even shut off one coil if voltage starts getting critical. When one coil is shut down, the unit will advance timing on the remaining one to give better power and fuel economy and keep the EGTs down. This amount is programmable...

That's pretty clever Ross. This is a very useful feature; I wonder how many people are going to completely miss just how slick this is? If the pilot takes the time to optimize this "single ignition advance scenario", then if the event takes place they will likely not even notice a power reduction. Can you manually "force" this mode at the onset of the ship's electrical system failure? In my mind dumping one coil early (thereby extending the run time even longer) is preferable to waiting for the unit to go into "self protection mode".
 
I'm not sure how Barry has this set up yet but I believe you can select to go down to one coil pack automatically in setup mode. He's come up with many slick ideas on the CPI-2 and I need a briefing from him on what everything does.

This is really the "last word" in EI systems. Not sure what else you'd want an EI to do- maybe bake you bread?
 
Software tweaks and additions are done and finally frozen. We discovered something in bench testing that had to be addressed and it took a few days to devise a solution and test it.

Looks like the first orders will start to be filled in the first week in March. Finishing off the rest of the documentation right now over the next few days. We added a few new features last week and had to take more photos of the screens and write the text for those.

Barry and I are both be glad initial development and testing are finally done and we can get on to production.

Sorry all for the wait. We just couldn't release something half baked and half tested.
 
Sneak Peek

Our EM-5 backlog continues to bog down introduction of the CPI-2 unfortunately but we're very close now. The manual is about half done. This took longer than anticipated as the number of windows and warning LED scenarios take some time to document in detail. Barry took over 100 photos in aid of this.

Anyway, we are flashing a batch of programmer memories tonight and took some photos for the CPI-2 web page which I'll try to upload tomorrow.

Sneak peek of a 4 cylinder kit here:



No wiring shown here but that's all included in the kit.
 
Hi Ross.
A couple of questions:

1. Will you have standard optimized setups for common engine configs (e.g. IO-340, high CR)? It would be nice to not have to worry on first flights about ignition setup.

2. Do you perform spark dithering (using a pseudo-random sequence to introduce minor dynamic timing changes)? This reduces prop resonances and comes for free with magnetos or gear driven ignitions, but the precision of crank triggering makes it worse.

Cheers
 
Hi Ross.
A couple of questions:

1. Will you have standard optimized setups for common engine configs (e.g. IO-340, high CR)? It would be nice to not have to worry on first flights about ignition setup.

2. Do you perform spark dithering (using a pseudo-random sequence to introduce minor dynamic timing changes)? This reduces prop resonances and comes for free with magnetos or gear driven ignitions, but the precision of crank triggering makes it worse.

Cheers

The base maps are very conservative and if a customer has higher CR or plans to run Mogas, we take that into account and lower the timing values a bit more.

Not sure what you're referring to on point #2. I'd welcome any data showing that random spark timing scatter reduces crank/prop resonances.
 
$

Ross,
Would you confirm pricing:
Kit Pricing (Lycoming)
Single controller 4 cyl. $1656US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 4 cyl. $2628US (fires two sets of plugs)
Single controller 6 cyl. $1960US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 6 cyl. $3160US (fires two sets of plugs)

Our backup battery tray and wiring will be a $140 option on all systems. Battery is not included. Order a Powersonic PS-1227 from Ebay or Amazon.

A single controller can also fire both sets of plugs if desired. Add $471 to the single controller price for 4 cylinder engines and $634 for 6 cylinder systems.
------------
so If I want a dual EI system of yours....is it 1656 plus 471.....if I use one controller to control both eystems? plus other options like battery backups etc.
Thanks
 
Ross,
Would you confirm pricing:
Kit Pricing (Lycoming)
Single controller 4 cyl. $1656US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 4 cyl. $2628US (fires two sets of plugs)
Single controller 6 cyl. $1960US (fires one set of plugs)
Dual controller 6 cyl. $3160US (fires two sets of plugs)

Our backup battery tray and wiring will be a $140 option on all systems. Battery is not included. Order a Powersonic PS-1227 from Ebay or Amazon.

A single controller can also fire both sets of plugs if desired. Add $471 to the single controller price for 4 cylinder engines and $634 for 6 cylinder systems.
------------
so If I want a dual EI system of yours....is it 1656 plus 471.....if I use one controller to control both eystems? plus other options like battery backups etc.
Thanks

There was a mistake on the prices for hardware to fire the second set of plugs with a single controller. This should have been $411 for 4 bangers and $574 for 6 cylinder engines. Since revised on the web page.

So for a 360, using a single controller firing all 8 plugs, $2067US.

At this time, there is at least a 60 day order backlog for anyone who is not already on the pre-order list. First tier production was all sold out in Feb.

We'll be starting another PCB batch March 25th but is takes about 4 weeks to get that process done from board and component ordering to stencils, loading and soldering.
 
2. Do you perform spark dithering (using a pseudo-random sequence to introduce minor dynamic timing changes)? This reduces prop resonances and comes for free with magnetos or gear driven ignitions, but the precision of crank triggering makes it worse.
Cheers

That's the first I've heard of that. Seems like it couldn't be for more than a degree at most.

Do you have data showing this phenomenon?
 
Finally...

After 18 months of 60 hour weeks, we'll finally start shipping CPI-2s next week.

There is a large back order list for these and the first production run is all sold out. We'll be shipping to those folks on this list first. A second production run is planned for May and we hope to start shipping from that run in early June.

Both 4 and 6 cylinder models are available.

I uploaded the installation and tuning manual this morning to the CPI-2 Page: http://www.sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm (near the bottom of the page).

Thanks for everyone's patience. This project took WAY longer than anticipated.
 
After 18 months of 60 hour weeks, we'll finally start shipping CPI-2s next week.

Thanks for everyone's patience. This project took WAY longer than anticipated.

Ross - congratulations on getting this product to the "now shipping" stage.
I know I'm not the only one who has faith in SDS products because you won't ship a product that's not ready. Better slow to market but bullet-proof than quick to market and riddled with bugs.
 
After 18 months of 60 hour weeks, we'll finally start shipping CPI-2s next week.

------------------------

Thanks for everyone's patience. This project took WAY longer than anticipated.

Congrats on getting these to market:D

Now time for a breather, then on to the EM6??
 
Thanks. It's the most tested product we've ever built and we're excited to get going on the production aspect. We've reorganized the shop with new benches, binning and shelving to speed up the process.

We'll get geared up better after the first few and try to improve the production rates to get people supplied as soon as possible.
 
Congrats on getting these to market:D

Now time for a breather, then on to the EM6??

There never seems to be a breather around here but yes, we'll be able to get a lot more work done on the EM-6 now for hopeful release in 2020.
 
Really looking forward to seeing the CPI-2 system in action on my plane. While I have read through the installation manual, it would be helpful if you could include more detailed wiring diagrams showing the various recommended options of switches and fuses and/or circuit breakers. I am seeing options with and without the key switch, perhaps a need for a kill switch, and of course power switches and fuses/circuit breakers, for the main power source, the backup power source, and the "low current" mainbus source. And double those for the dual system (which I have on order).

Thanks in advance.
 
I'll give these suggestions to Barry to try to clarify these aspects a bit more although there isn't much outside of grounds and powers to hook up. Breaker or fuse those power wires. Is there something specific you find unclear?
We welcome feedback.

Sometimes people standing outside the project that we've been immersed in for months, see things that are obvious to us but not everyone else.

I believe Barry is adding some more text and clarifications this weekend so you can look for an updated version early next week. There are always improvements that can be made.
 
Circuit Diagrams

Is there something specific you find unclear?
We welcome feedback.

Ross - I think what would help most would be some (partial) circuit diagrams showing options or suggestions for wiring the various switches & breakers to the unit.

Here's a great example from https://flyleds.com/products/#!/WigWag-module/p/127264155/category=0

1017807015.jpg


This is one of several options depicted on that page.

More examples here: https://flyleds.com/info/

Thanks, and looking forward to getting my CPI2 soon!
 
Agreed. Something like this would makes things more clear. Thanks.

We'll try to work something like this into the manual over the next week.
 
Ross,
I have just started working on the wiring on my EM-5. There are pinouts for the computer connectors, which in my case, you wired up for me. I can't find anything on the MAP, TPS, and a couple of others. I did see you wrote some info on the plastic bags the connectors came in.

I figured out the MAF already, and I am sure I will figure out the rest. Pinouts for a few of the sensor connectors would make things a bit quicker as well.

Awesome quality of everything in the kit. It might be the most professionally done and quality aftermarket product I have ever bought. Absolutely beautiful.
 
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