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AFS EFIS Survival Tips

Ironflight

VAF Moderator / Line Boy
Mentor
A famously skilled RV pilot has just asked to borrow your airplane. There are no issues with insurance, and you have no reservations whatsoever about giving him the controls. Yet, you are slightly worried because ? alas ? he has never operated the type of Glass Cockpit equipment you have installed. Afraid that he might run in to one of those little ?traps? that all complex software systems exhibit to the uninitiated, you take a few moments to brief him on the top ten ?tricks? you have learned that make flying with your personal EFIS easy and stress-free. We all learn short-cuts and signatures that help us more than the structured manuals ever could - now it is time to share those tips with the rest of the world!

If you have more than a few hours behind the AFS EFIS, how about listing a few of the items you?d share with the finest pilot you?ve ever met if he (or she) was going to fly your plane.

Paul
 
Perfect timing! I just ordered my 4500s and will have to learn what these are for myself. I'm looking forward to reading all the postings.

bob
 
Basic tips

1- use button number#1 (first button on left, not the knobs), it will always bring you back to the "home" page where you will end up paging through several pages of "attitude " & "engine" pages. Those are the only pages you need to fly the airplane, all the other pages are for the "Advanced"(no pun intended) pilot user.

2- in addition to the AFS backup battery (30 min)I have an emergency backup switch to send power directly to the AFS screen direct from the main ship battery - show the pilot that switch if installed.
 
I have an older AF3500 with only 1 knob (on the right) so YMMV.

As another poster already stated, the left button will get you back to where you want to be. Don't get too button happy with it, or you will go to far and have to cycle through again. The number of pages displayed varies with user setup.

If you are using the checklists, you will have to press the (right) knob and select baro to change your altimeter setting. If you are on one of the flight pages, the altimeter setting should just be a simple knob turn.

Before you shut the master off, hit checklist, followed by maintenance to see the hour meter so that you can make a note of your time.
 
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AF-5600 EFIS

This is what a dual screen AF-5600 EFIS looks like at FL280 and 347 KTAS with our turbine engine display, ground speed was 430mph. The pilot likes the EFIS old school look and turned off the SVN. This is in a Lancair 4P Turbine, in the last year we have done a number of these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnOPgC3cQ6k

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
N402RH RV-10
 
User Waypoints and Weight&Balance

Hi,

is it possible to enter own waypoints either by panning and "saving" or entering Lat/Long and use them in Flightplans ?

I am failing to add an image of my RV6A to the Weight&Balance page - It's only displaying a RV10 - I created a BPM file with an image and renamed as described in the manual, but no joy on it.
 
Maybe I don't understand how this is supposed to work at all, so pardon me if this question proves it!

1. I can generate a flight plan including an approach procedure on my 530W and xfer it to my 5600. On the 5600 it shows up as an alphanumeric list showing all the waypoints but I cannot get it to display on the Map on the 5600. What am I doing wrong and what don't I understand?

2. I cannot find anywhere a comprehensive tutorial either in writing or in a video that shows in detail the 5600 "buttonology" associated with generating and flying a complex flight plan (departure procedures, en route, approach plate usage, and LPV or similar final approach. Can all of that only be done on my 530? As above, I can't even "follow along" on my 5600 except in a general way, without routing, distances, bearing, etc. Any help there?


Lee...
 
Maybe I don't understand how this is supposed to work at all, so pardon me if this question proves it!

1. I can generate a flight plan including an approach procedure on my 530W and xfer it to my 5600. On the 5600 it shows up as an alphanumeric list showing all the waypoints but I cannot get it to display on the Map on the 5600. What am I doing wrong and what don't I understand?

2. I cannot find anywhere a comprehensive tutorial either in writing or in a video that shows in detail the 5600 "buttonology" associated with generating and flying a complex flight plan (departure procedures, en route, approach plate usage, and LPV or similar final approach. Can all of that only be done on my 530? As above, I can't even "follow along" on my 5600 except in a general way, without routing, distances, bearing, etc. Any help there?


Lee...

1. It's hard to provide advice without understand more about your installation. Do you have both ARINC and RS232 lines going from your 530 to your 5600? You'll need the ARINC module to make this work.

If you're not seeing the magenta line on your map, it sounds like the ARINC data isn't getting to your EFIS. I'm assuming that the 530 is defined as GNAV1 and you have the map src set to GNAV1, correct?

While you may be able to transfer your 530 flight plan to your internal 5600 flight plan, you really don't want to do that. It will contain your enroute data, but won't have the approach data. You will want to use your 530 as source for the entire flight to save have to switch batch just to fly the approach.

2. I have a 650, which from an interface perspective to the EFIS functions similarly as the 530. Assuming that you have the 530w, it has the capability to do all you want. You just need to figure out that the installation is correct and configured appropriately.

I don't recall on the 530, but on the 650 there is an ARINC option in the diagnostic mode. This will allow you to monitor the flags and data being sent on the ARINC bus. If you are seeing all 0's, something is wrong.

There are some basic procedures in the operating manual. Rob also has quite a few YouTube video that shows him flying approaches. They are a good place to start.

Since you aren't seeing the magenta lines on you map, my assumption is that you have an installation/configuration issue. Once you identify that issue, then start on the process/buttonology learning.
 
Bob: Thanks so much for checking in---I greatly appreciate your input. I just came back from a quick test flight wherein I queued up a flight, including an approach, to a nearby airfield. I did not xfer the fpl over to the 5600 (on purpose). I took off and then shut down the 5600 (wanted engine info for t/o). My autopilot is a Gemini (not one of the ones the manual for the 5600 says is supported). The 530 would not drive the Gemini; indeed, it would not go to GPSS mode at all. Suggests to me that we wired the 530 ARINC output directly to the 5600 as I understood we thought we were supposed to. I don't know if I have RS 232 data also---I will check.

I then turned on the 5600 and transferred the same 530 fpl to it. The 5600 FPL page displayed the entire 530 flight plan including the approach. Up until then, I had never been able to get any FPL page to be drawn graphically though, even though (I believe) I tried every possible combination of button sequencing. I had never, however, turned on the AP controller (since I understood the Gemini is not supported via the 5600 AP controller). The 5600 will drive the Gemini just fine (using the controls on the Gemini itself) on "direct" flights generated in the 5600 itself (not transferred over). Anyway, something I pushed after bringing up the 5600 internal AP controller suddenly generated a beautiful graphic display of my entire flight plan. However (wouldn't you know), the autopilot would not track it. Still don't know if I'm supposed to control the Gemini from its control knob or from the AP controller in the 5600. Whatever it is and whatever the buttonology, today wasn't the day.

If any of this helps, please let me know what you think!


Lee...
 
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Lee has the ARINC module, which is def by the 530 and split out to the 5600 and Gemini AP (if my memory serves). Most of this was prewired by SteinAir. The connection to the 530W was done by me to an available RS232 out.

The AFS manuals are not quite as clear as the Dynon manuals when it comes to this type of setup.
 
I have a AFS 5500, Gtn650, Vizion AP, and a Gemini PFD.

First, I would ask both AFS and Trutrak if they have specific sample schematics for the Gemini AP. My assumption from taking a quick look at the Gemini AP manual is that you would wire it just like you would a Vizion or AFS Pilot. Those sample schematics used to be on The AFS website. If they aren?t on the new dynon site, I can email it to you.

The ARINC in/ out and one rs232 circuit from the 530 goes direct to the 5600. Then the Gemini is wired to the 5600via Arinc and a Rs232. Then the AP is controlled from the AP button on the 5600.

If you want to email the schematic you wired your panel, I?d be more than happy to review it.

It sounds like Arinc data isn?t getting to the EFIS, which in turn isn?t getting to the AP. It could be due to a bad installation (wrong pins wired), an open circuit, or an Arinc module not working.
 
I have a AFS 5500, Gtn650, Vizion AP, and a Gemini PFD.

First, I would ask both AFS and Trutrak if they have specific sample schematics for the Gemini AP. My assumption from taking a quick look at the Gemini AP manual is that you would wire it just like you would a Vizion or AFS Pilot. Those sample schematics used to be on The AFS website. If they aren?t on the new dynon site, I can email it to you.

The ARINC in/ out and one rs232 circuit from the 530 goes direct to the 5600. Then the Gemini is wired to the 5600via Arinc and a Rs232. Then the AP is controlled from the AP button on the 5600.

If you want to email the schematic you wired your panel, I?d be more than happy to review it.

It sounds like Arinc data isn?t getting to the EFIS, which in turn isn?t getting to the AP. It could be due to a bad installation (wrong pins wired), an open circuit, or an Arinc module not working.
 
Bob: Again, thanks for the helpful information. I'll get my schematic to you as soon as I can get it back from another who is checking on it. I think you may be right. My avionics buddy and I are going over it again this weekend. Maybe we'll have a better picture of where we are after that.


Lee...
 
Give me a call to go over how it works, I am confused about you saying you are or are not transferring the flight plan from the 530W?

Your EFIS CDI source should be GNAV1 (GPS Navigator). When you have selected GNAV1 there is no transferring required, the active flight plan in the 530W should just appear in the AF-5600 FPL page. Things to remember:

1. The 530W will not accept a change in the flight plan from the EFIS, all changes must be done on the 530W.

2. You cannot edit the flight plan on the EFIS since it is coming from the 530W and it has the master copy.

3. The Autopilot control has nothing to do with flight plan drawing.

4. The AF-5600 can control the Gemini, including engage and disengage.

5. if your CDI source has the option of GPS1 it is wired and/or configured wrong.

To avoid a lot of confusion send me the schematics and call me from your plane.
(503) 263-0037 ext 202

[email protected]

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
 
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Lee has the ARINC module, which is def by the 530 and split out to the 5600 and Gemini AP (if my memory serves). Most of this was prewired by SteinAir. The connection to the 530W was done by me to an available RS232 out.

The AFS manuals are not quite as clear as the Dynon manuals when it comes to this type of setup.

http://dynonavionics.com/includes/guides/advanced/AF-5000%20Install%20Manual%20V5.4.pdf

Page 95 has the 430W/530W settings

Page 237-238 show how it should be wired if you are using the AF-ARINC module. These drawings are for the Trutrak AF-Pilot, the Gemini has the same pin numbers and should wire the same.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
 
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Way cool, Rob. I'm quite certain most if not all of the confusion here is of my own doing, so I really appreciate the help.

I'll get back with you...


Lee...
 
Okay: Hope this doesn't bore anyone who already understands all this, but for those like me who don't, Raymo and I finally got out on a good navigation test flight yesterday.

The point of sharing all of this is that there may be others who have kludged up systems like mine (I only did this to get ADSB-out; the 5600 EFIS is over and above). Unlike me, probably most people are buying fully integrated systems in the first place, whether AFS, Dynon, or Garmin, etc. and not trying to make a home-spun setup like mine behave correctly. A second problem is that I don’t know all the terms properly yet. Rob: As a result, I misnamed my Course CDI source, it is GNAV1, not GPS1. Another was that I was not aware of how the relationship between the GPS navigator, the 5600, and the two different autopilot controllers is supposed to work in my non-standard setup. Regardless, we made some progress on this flight.

Basically, as I now realize and as my airplane appears to be wired, the TSO'd nav box (430/530/etc) is the normal source for all complex flight plans. That is all except the 5600 direct-to option (excepting the ForeFlight option for the moment). The 530 can provide fltplans to the 5600 and through the 5600 to the TruTrak Gemini. The 5600 can drive the Gemini itself on a direct-to flight but not on plans transferred from the 530. The 530 must drive any fltplan transferred to the 5600 from the 530 itself. If I've got any of this wrong, someone please say so because this is for sure how it seems to work on my system. Note: I understand the 5600 AP will also drive the Gemini on any fltplan loaded directly into INTFP through ForeFlight, including complex flt plans. I haven’t tried that yet.

And finally, I discovered that I had missed the requirement in the 5600 Pilot's Guide to select Course [CRS] in order to complete the process of transferring the 530 fltplan to the 5600 Map view. After that, my displays seemed to be working as in the Pilot Manual.

So...yesterday with a flight to a nearby airport and its approach firmly in the 530, we set sail. Sure enough, no amount of fiddling with the internal 5600 autopilot would get the system to fly the fltplan (we were still learning at this point). This attempt was with the Gemini “on” but not “engaged”. Then we engaged the Gemini with the 5600 AP “off”, and just as if it were connected directly to the 530, it came up in GPSS. Voila! For the first time ever, the airplane turned to intercept the course to the first fix in the approach. It wandered about it bit in altitude though, but then on a hunch we adjusted the upper altitude setting on the 5600 AP and engaged it (“altitude” on the 5600AP) and the Gemini settled right down and tracked the approach plate required altitude smoothly. So?…It takes the lateral input from the 530 (flight plan) AND the 5600 (altitude setting and controller) for the Gemini to properly function in my configuration? I would not have thought that---primarily because I understood that the 5600 AP was out of the loop in my configuration. Maybe I could have used the VS and altitude settings on the Gemini to do the same thing, but it is certainly easier to do on the 5600 and appears to work well.

The big test came when we hit the first fix. For the first time ever, the autopilot turned the airplane in accordance with the fltplan. Hoorah! I did not detect an “early” turn but it wasn’t much of a turn. Next turn was 60+ degrees however, and sure enough the autopilot early-turned it. Things were getting better all the time. This put us on course for the FAF. Throughout (so far) the airplane was locked onto to the approach plate altitude (1,900’). All was going smoothly, with the Gemini (as usual) “demanding” trim changes as I adjusted the Rocket’s speed slowly downwards. The 530 provided all the correct warnings, switched to LPV, and displayed the glide slope bug on the 5600, but the Gemini never lowered the nose at the FAF. Huh? It overflew the airport right down the runway at 1,900’. Darn! Re-engaged the fltplan back direct to the middle fix (to save time). The Gemini flew direct to the selected fix, made in interestingly tight left reversal (which we were warned of in advance by the 530) and re-intercepted the approach plate course back toward the FAF again. This time when we hit the FAF, the Gemini commanded the nose down and with a modest power reduction, we slide down the glide slope like we were on rails! Hands off to minimums (set on the EFIS) and called out by the 5600 audio. The Gemini then leveled us off (right on minimums). Success!

We ran it a third time, again with no problems, so we’re calling that a win. Still don’t know why it didn’t work on the first try. Weather is shaky today, but I’ll be off tomorrow to try holding, VOR/ILS, etc. And, even though it’s the reason for this system upgrade in the first place, we still have problems with traffic and ADSB weather. We think that is likely a “box” problem with our new hardware. Time will tell.

Someone tell me if any of this doesn’t sound right. It looks like the 530 to Gemini connection is functioning properly, but additional functionality is available through 5600 EFIS/AP options (altitude hold, level off at minimums, etc) which are provided to the Gemini not by the 530 but by the 5600’s EFIS and AP controller. These functions are apparently “layered” on top of traditional 530/Gemini functionality. Which ones that I haven’t tried yet will work and which won’t, I’m nowhere near through checking out. I’ll need a secretary to keep up with that I expect! Nevertheless, yesterdays flight seemed like a real breakthrough to me.

Thanks to everyone for the help provided!


Lee…
 
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Lee, keep posting -- I have same "learning" curve

with my new 5600T, Vizion 385, GTN 650 ----- still have not successfully done a coupled approach. Fortunately, I have a switch that takes the autopilot control away from the EFIS and revert back to the 650 - 385 - CDI interface.

I am having fun learning the new system, and the 5600T is awesome!

Ron
 
Ron: Your system sounds sweet! And, thanks for helping me feel a little better about my lack of knowledge and success so far! Be sure to include selecting [CRS] as noted on page 30 of the AF 5000 Series Pilot Guide in your button sequencing to get the system to display and couple to a flight plan. Once you have a flight plan in the 650, go to the 5600 flight plan page and select source: Should be GNAV1 for the 650. That should bring up flight plan in alphanumeric form. If memory serves, at that point select Course [CRS] and you should see your map page then with a magenta course line and your routing displayed. If you then select GPSS on your autopilot you should be in business. On mine, I selected altitude on the 5600 and set the necessary altitude for the approach there along with the minima for the approach selected. Should do the trick and even level off at minimums unless you decouple and hand fly the final few seconds of the approach to the runway.

Please make sure I don't have that backwards. You may have to select Course first and then GNAV1. I was too busy to write much of this down yesterday and sure enough the winds from Nate were blowing dust all over our runway here in South Carolina so I didn't fly today.


Lee...
 
For sure let me know if that works on your setup/configuration. Appears to be the "missing link" on mine.


Lee...
 
Another option

Why not create the flight plan in the AFS and load the approach in the Garmin? Use the AFS for 90% of the flights and then revert to Garmin just for the approaches. Just curious.
Thanks
Cj
 
Craig, currently what I am doing

I am using the AFS for "enroute", using the heading but, but switch to the 650/385 for approaches -- this works well, in my configuration, but would be nice to work everything off of the 5600 ---- Lee, tried all combinations, this morning --- My "NAV" is armed, but never picks up to follow the flt plan. The "CRS" button did not seem to do anything, navigation-wise.

Since the "NAV" does occasionally pickup, unexpectedly, I am convinced everything is wired right, but to purposefully engage the function, I have not been successful in pushing the correct buttons, in the correct sequence.

Again, I am having a ball playing with the features and amazed at the capabilities -- (burning through my monthly avgas budget!):)

Ron
 
Ron: Your system sounds sweet! And, thanks for helping me feel a little better about my lack of knowledge and success so far! Be sure to include selecting [CRS] as noted on page 30 of the AF 5000 Series Pilot Guide in your button sequencing to get the system to display and couple to a flight plan. Once you have a flight plan in the 650, go to the 5600 flight plan page and select source: Should be GNAV1 for the 650. That should bring up flight plan in alphanumeric form. If memory serves, at that point select Course [CRS] and you should see your map page then with a magenta course line and your routing displayed. If you then select GPSS on your autopilot you should be in business. On mine, I selected altitude on the 5600 and set the necessary altitude for the approach there along with the minima for the approach selected. Should do the trick and even level off at minimums unless you decouple and hand fly the final few seconds of the approach to the runway.

Please make sure I don't have that backwards. You may have to select Course first and then GNAV1. I was too busy to write much of this down yesterday and sure enough the winds from Nate were blowing dust all over our runway here in South Carolina so I didn't fly today.


Lee...

After selecting CRS, be sure GNAV1 is selected (assumes your 650 is set up in on the Admin Config page). This will populate the course on the map but will not enable driving the AP from the EFIS. In Lee's setup, we simply enabled the AP and let the 530W drive it directly. Enabling or disabling the AP in the 5600 seemed to do nothing when the 530W was driving.

If you attempt to Activate the flight plan in the 5600 (when transferred from the Garmin), it will simply switch to INTFP mode, where (in this case) there was no flight plan. I imagine a duplicate plan could be loaded via FF or similar app (and maybe via the 5600 directly).

It would be nice if there were a way to transfer the 530W flight plan into the 5600 INTFP but this might cause issues with two separate sources driving the AP.
 
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Ray, thanks

Yes, the 650 FLT PLN is transferred to the 5600 and GNAV1 is selected, and the magenta lines are drawn ---- my only frustration is that my -7A buddy has the same setup (5500, 650, TT385) and he is able to do everything through the 5500----- so, I know it can be done.

I intend to keep playing and trying to locate the right combination.

R.
 
Yes, the 650 FLT PLN is transferred to the 5600 and GNAV1 is selected, and the magenta lines are drawn ---- my only frustration is that my -7A buddy has the same setup (5500, 650, TT385) and he is able to do everything through the 5500----- so, I know it can be done.

I intend to keep playing and trying to locate the right combination.

R.

Your -7A friend is probably loading the FP into the 5500 via FF or other app. Does he (or do you) have the WiFi dongle for this purpose?
 
I've Held Off...

I've held off posting on this thread, hoping to see the "magic bullet" for figuring my situation.
About two 5600T software updates back, my system stopped working the way it used to. Before, it would lock on to any flight plan created, whether from the 5600 or the GTN-650, and follow it - rock solid.
After the update in July, I couldn't get the 5600 to lock on any flight plan. Then I was told there was a mod in the software that requires you to be within 30 degrees (or 15%) of the heading desired for the flight plan, in order for the system to lock on and allow the AP to fly the plan.
I've tried getting dead-on the heading - still the system won't lock on the plan. I've tried switching between Track and Heading - nothing works.
Yes, the Lat and Vert are "Armed" but never lock and control the AP.

Needless to say, the manuals are way out of date and useless for trying to figure this out. I've been told Rob H is in the process of re-writing the manuals for all this. BUT, that doesn't alleviate the frustration of having a system that did work now not work. NO, there have been no changes to wiring or set-up. Just the 5600 software updates.

I've volunteered to fly up from S12 (Albany, OR) to KUAO (Aurora, OR) a flight of about 20 minutes to let them see what I'm facing and possibly get some "Oh you need to do this..." guidance. To date, I'm sitting here with a system that does not allow the AP to do what it was intended to do...
 
grubbat: The 430/530/650 etc series have all the navigational data you need to navigate legally: Departures, in route, arrivals, approaches, everything. The AFS 5000 series [and similar experimental/non-TSO'd] systems do not. You can fly direct-to all day long on any 5000 series and nearing your destination, even call up the appropriate approach plate and hand-fly that if you like, but (a) you won't be legal and (b) the autopilot won't fly it for you.

Raymo is right, ForeFlight is supposed to have everything you need to load a complex flight plan directly into your 5000 series (without a certified GNAV), including a multi-point flight on and off airways, etc. but that internal flight plan too will not be "legal". Only a TSO'd GNAV box can get you that.

What TSO boxes like the 430/530/650 don't have is what all the new experimental displays DO have: Big screen, vivid colors, electronic flight instruments, engine monitors, "g" meters, c.g. planning, checklists, auto-logging, etc, etc. I now view the new systems to be more like a Christmas tree for hanging all these wonderful ornaments on but which don't include the mandatory base they are standing in that has to be there or the whole thing falls over.

Someone correct me if I'm missing something [else!].


Lee...
 
Yes, the 650 FLT PLN is transferred to the 5600 and GNAV1 is selected, and the magenta lines are drawn ---- my only frustration is that my -7A buddy has the same setup (5500, 650, TT385) and he is able to do everything through the 5500----- so, I know it can be done.

I intend to keep playing and trying to locate the right combination.

R.

This is not correct, the GTN650 will not accept a flight plan from the EFIS. We are working with Avidyne to make the IFD440 and IFR540 accept a flight plan.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems.
 
I am using the AFS for "enroute", using the heading but, but switch to the 650/385 for approaches -- this works well, in my configuration, but would be nice to work everything off of the 5600 ---- Lee, tried all combinations, this morning --- My "NAV" is armed, but never picks up to follow the flt plan. The "CRS" button did not seem to do anything, navigation-wise.

Since the "NAV" does occasionally pickup, unexpectedly, I am convinced everything is wired right, but to purposefully engage the function, I have not been successful in pushing the correct buttons, in the correct sequence.

Again, I am having a ball playing with the features and amazed at the capabilities -- (burning through my monthly avgas budget!):)

Ron

If you have a AF-5000 system with touch screen and are running recent software you should have a CDI button on the fifth bottom button. With the older software and systems this was labeled CRS. When you are in NAV mode with the autopilot it shoudl be following the EFIS CDI needle.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
 
After selecting CRS, be sure GNAV1 is selected (assumes your 650 is set up in on the Admin Config page). This will populate the course on the map but will not enable driving the AP from the EFIS. In Lee's setup, we simply enabled the AP and let the 530W drive it directly. Enabling or disabling the AP in the 5600 seemed to do nothing when the 530W was driving.

If you attempt to Activate the flight plan in the 5600 (when transferred from the Garmin), it will simply switch to INTFP mode, where (in this case) there was no flight plan. I imagine a duplicate plan could be loaded via FF or similar app (and maybe via the 5600 directly).

It would be nice if there were a way to transfer the 530W flight plan into the 5600 INTFP but this might cause issues with two separate sources driving the AP.

This can easily be done from the EFIS Flight Plan Menu:

CDI > GNAV1 Make sure you are displaying the Flight Plan from GPS Navigator
FPL > FILE > SAVE will save the current flight plan displayed on the EFIS
CDI > INTERNAL Switch to Internal Flight Plan mode
FPL > FILE > LOAD select the flight plan to load.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
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Rob: Thanks for checking in on this. I figured our AFS system "speculations" would generate an expert response pretty quick. I'm just a bit confused about the "recent software" you mentioned. I have been updating my memory stick from your website pretty regularly. As a result, I assumed that would mean I do in fact have the latest system software.

Is that not correct and if so, how do I update, please...

P.S. I was dazzled today by just how smoothly my 530/5600/Gemini combo tracked both in azimuth and glideslope on the two GPS/LPV approaches I flew. Wow!


Lee...
 
FLYING W/GTN-650, AFS-5600T & AP

Let's see if I have the buttonology correct.

1. GTN-650 Create FP
2. EFIS - FPL>GNAV-1
3. EFIS - FPL>EDIT FP to input desired Altitudes for each Waypoint (GTN-650 does not do altitudes for flight planning waypoints.)
4. EFIS - CDI>GNAV-1
5. EFIS - AP>NAV
6. EFIS - AP>TRACK (Lat becomes Armed)
7. EFIS - AP>ALT (Vert becomes Armed)
8. Hand-fly until within 30 degrees (15%) of leg heading
9. EFIS - AP>ENGAGE or AP Controller>EFIS
From this point on, the AP should fly the flight plan and the approach if one has been loaded & activated on the GTN-650; or until you DISENGAGE the AP.

Is this the correct sequence? If not, what am I missing / doing wrong? So far, this sequence is NOT resulting in the AFS/Dynon system flying the FP via the AP.

Prior to the July software update, I simply went through steps 1~4, then pushed the EFIS button on the AP controller and the AP flew the FP perfectly. NOW, I can't get the AP to lock on to the FP at all. I've got to use the AP knob to control the heading to zig-zag across the desired track, correcting for wind and timing turns has proven real interesting (usually getting an overshoot). Altitudes are set on the EFIS>ALT screen.

ANY guidance is greatly appreciated.
 
You're creating quite a bit of work here.

Leave GNAV1 as the SRC and don't transfer the flight plan to the EFIS. You can control the altitude via the manual knob on the EFIS. You typically won't change altitudes much, except for the ascent and descent. You can then turn the knob every time the controller clears you to a new altitude.

Before you start the approach, just make sure you change the Vert to Vert-Armed.

You don't want to be playing with bouncing back and forth from the Internal Flight Plan and the GPS Flight Plan in IMC. The GPS will automagically switch from enroute mode to approach mode, assuming your loaded the appropriate approach and IAP on the GPS. You won't have to do any hand flying, which is a positive thing in IMC.

As a Plan B, I also move the Heading Bug on the EFIS to my current track. That way if the controller gives me vectors to avoid traffic or towards the IAP, I can quickly bounce the EFIS into Heading mode, then back into NAV mode when appropriate.

Let's see if I have the buttonology correct.

1. GTN-650 Create FP
2. EFIS - FPL>GNAV-1
3. EFIS - FPL>EDIT FP to input desired Altitudes for each Waypoint (GTN-650 does not do altitudes for flight planning waypoints.)
4. EFIS - CDI>GNAV-1
5. EFIS - AP>NAV
6. EFIS - AP>TRACK (Lat becomes Armed)
7. EFIS - AP>ALT (Vert becomes Armed)
8. Hand-fly until within 30 degrees (15%) of leg heading
9. EFIS - AP>ENGAGE or AP Controller>EFIS
From this point on, the AP should fly the flight plan and the approach if one has been loaded & activated on the GTN-650; or until you DISENGAGE the AP.

Is this the correct sequence? If not, what am I missing / doing wrong? So far, this sequence is NOT resulting in the AFS/Dynon system flying the FP via the AP.

Prior to the July software update, I simply went through steps 1~4, then pushed the EFIS button on the AP controller and the AP flew the FP perfectly. NOW, I can't get the AP to lock on to the FP at all. I've got to use the AP knob to control the heading to zig-zag across the desired track, correcting for wind and timing turns has proven real interesting (usually getting an overshoot). Altitudes are set on the EFIS>ALT screen.

ANY guidance is greatly appreciated.
 
Rob: Thanks for checking in on this. I figured our AFS system "speculations" would generate an expert response pretty quick. I'm just a bit confused about the "recent software" you mentioned. I have been updating my memory stick from your website pretty regularly. As a result, I assumed that would mean I do in fact have the latest system software.

Is that not correct and if so, how do I update, please...

Lee...

Wondering this too since yours has the latest available updates but has the CRS button, per pilot guide.
 
Let's see if I have the buttonology correct.

1. GTN-650 Create FP
2. EFIS - FPL>GNAV-1
3. EFIS - FPL>EDIT FP to input desired Altitudes for each Waypoint (GTN-650 does not do altitudes for flight planning waypoints.)
4. EFIS - CDI>GNAV-1
5. EFIS - AP>NAV
6. EFIS - AP>TRACK (Lat becomes Armed)
7. EFIS - AP>ALT (Vert becomes Armed)
8. Hand-fly until within 30 degrees (15%) of leg heading
9. EFIS - AP>ENGAGE or AP Controller>EFIS
From this point on, the AP should fly the flight plan and the approach if one has been loaded & activated on the GTN-650; or until you DISENGAGE the AP.

Is this the correct sequence? If not, what am I missing / doing wrong? So far, this sequence is NOT resulting in the AFS/Dynon system flying the FP via the AP.

Prior to the July software update, I simply went through steps 1~4, then pushed the EFIS button on the AP controller and the AP flew the FP perfectly. NOW, I can't get the AP to lock on to the FP at all. I've got to use the AP knob to control the heading to zig-zag across the desired track, correcting for wind and timing turns has proven real interesting (usually getting an overshoot). Altitudes are set on the EFIS>ALT screen.

ANY guidance is greatly appreciated.


Fundamentally nothing has changed in the last few years, we have added a new looking interface with the same autopilot modes and buttons. We have added a new TRK mode. In TRK mode the autopilot should make the GPS ground track the same as the heading bug. In HDG mode magnetic heading should match the heading bug.

...stand by for a complete tutorial...

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
Thanks to everyone who's chimed in on this subject. Speaking just for myself, I have a much better understanding of what is going on now than I had just four days ago. I'm really enjoying (and benefiting from) this discussion.

Rob: Yes, I do have the touch screen and I'm pretty sure I have the latest software unless my particular serial number sat on the shelf at Stein's for a long time [I assume not...]. I'll fire it up tomorrow and check the software and update numbers.

Bob: If you don't load the flight plan on the 5000 series from the 530/650 etc. you won't have the flight plan route/track on the EFIS. The "ornaments" on the Christmas tree will still be very nice but I like having the big map up on my 5600 and to me, it makes no sense to not have the route, including any departure, arrival, and approach up too. Just a personal thing, but I like flying with synthetic vision, the map, and my engine instruments all up on the 5600 at the same time (I only one screen). Another good configuration is with full map side to side, full engine instruments, and partial flight instruments on the left and right sides. That's a nice, informative "look" to me.


Regards,


Lee...
 
Thanks to everyone who's chimed in on this subject. Speaking just for myself, I have a much better understanding of what is going on now than I had just four days ago. I'm really enjoying (and benefiting from) this discussion.


Bob: If you don't load the flight plan on the 5000 series from the 530/650 etc. you won't have the flight plan route/track on the EFIS. The "ornaments" on the Christmas tree will still be very nice but I like having the big map up on my 5600 and to me, it makes no sense to not have the route, including any departure, arrival, and approach up too. Just a personal thing, but I like flying with synthetic vision, the map, and my engine instruments all up on the 5600 at the same time (I only one screen). Another good configuration is with full map side to side, full engine instruments, and partial flight instruments on the left and right sides. That's a nice, informative "look" to me

Lee...

We have a vocabulary issue. You don?t transfer the plan. The flight plan is on the gtn650.

If the src is gnav1, the gtn650 will send the appropriate Arinc labels to the AP through the EFIS. The EFIS has the ability to embellish the commands by adding other information to the data stream, I.e. altitude settings to the Nav data.

Trust me, I fly this way all he time. I have two screens. My pfd has the traditional EFIS display along with the engine data. My mfd has all the maps displayed or the approach charts.

You have two options on where you can store the flight plan, but only one has approach data. In my opinion, it?s less effort just to leave the flightplan on the 650, since it?s the only source of approach data. You want to reduce button pushing in IMC.

This does indeed draw the flight plan route on the map.

If you are in IMC, you want to automation to give you more think time by reducing the workload. Hand flying or switching from the internal flight plan back to the gps just increases the workload.
 
Bob is dead on here. I fly the same way all the time---flight plan created on the Avidyne 540 and then just fly the EFIS, using the GPS/NAV1 as the source. IT's much easier to quickly make changes to routing when they come from ATC, especially if you have the little Blue Tooth keyboard. I can give it to Carol and she types the changes.
There are times when I do use the Internal flight plan. Sometimes the airport may not be in the database but it happens to be on the EFIS. I just move the cursor to the airport and switch to internal flight plan. But this is for VFR flights.

Another time I find it REALLY convenient to use the internal flight plan is for a VFR sightseeing trip, such as up and down glaciers in Alaska, or navigating down the Alaskan coast in marginal conditions. I use Foreflight to create the plan with lots of waypoints, then upload it to the EFIS and use the autopilot to fly while I am keeping my head out the window. At 200'-500' in poor visibility it is very easy to get confused and turn down a wrong inlet or valley, as they all look the same in those conditions. We'll use multiple GPS's to confirm where we are in those conditions, but it is really nice to be able to enter lots of waypoints that use lat/long numbers via an upload.

Bottom line is that there are times to use the internal flightplan, but if you have an onboard WAAS GPS it is easier and safer to just use it as the primary source. That way you always know which way the plane is turning next by watching the next segmented line on the route.

Vic
 
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Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
Everyone: Very useful information and a very helpful discussion. Thanks to Rob for the very graphic layout of what to expect with various situations.

I think by this point we are mostly talking only about individual configuration variations. I only have one screen, "transferring a copy" of the flight plan to the EFIS, seems sensible to me. I do like having a map layout of the route in two places.

Bob: You said: "If the src is gnav1, the gtn650 will send the appropriate Arinc labels to the AP through the EFIS. The EFIS has the ability to embellish the commands by adding other information to the data stream, I.e. altitude settings to the Nav data. First time I have heard it put in proper technical terms. Very helpful; I always understood that the 530 was driving the AP, but that sets it out in the proper nomenclature.

Rob: The very first picture in your post is the "look" I kept having trouble getting to. I always got to the flight plan block listing by just selecting GNAV1, but I couldn't get the map to come up with the flight plan and magenta CDI displayed.
 
Everyone:

Rob: The very first picture in your post is the "look" I kept having trouble getting to. I always got to the flight plan block listing by just selecting GNAV1, but I couldn't get the map to come up with the flight plan and magenta CDI displayed.

Email me a picture of what you are seeing and I will tell you what is wrong.

Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
 
Reply to RLeffler

I've tried your way. Before the July update, it would work that way. After the July update it won't.
I spoke with Shawn at AFS, he told me about the 30 degree (15%) requirement before the AP will lock on to the guidance.
Then they published the latest software version.
Still my system won't fly (using the AP) the flight plan from either the GTN-650 or the EFIS

It is a dual 5600-T system. I can't get it to properly control the AP from either EFIS.
 
Reply to Rob H

I know you are using the Avidyne unit as the "demo" unit for teaching purposes. If we simply replace the Avidyne nomenclature with GTN-650, the same procedures should work. Correct?

Right now my plane is in pieces getting painted. Once that is completed (in maybe two weeks) I'll step through your tutorial and see if my unit will "play nice."

In the time from January 2017, and present, there have been NO changes to my system, wiring, etc. except software updates. And, as I've mentioned previously, after the July update, is when the AP simply won't lock-on to a flight plan; whether internal or from the GTN. That's why I've been pointing to the updates throughout my postings.
IF there are no fundamental changes in the software between the sources and the AP, then something has gone goofy with my AP control head.
 
I've tried your way. Before the July update, it would work that way. After the July update it won't.
I spoke with Shawn at AFS, he told me about the 30 degree (15%) requirement before the AP will lock on to the guidance.
Then they published the latest software version.
Still my system won't fly (using the AP) the flight plan from either the GTN-650 or the EFIS

It is a dual 5600-T system. I can't get it to properly control the AP from either EFIS.

I would continue working with Rob and Shawn.

What AP are you using. Do you have a Trutrak or Dynon. It appears to me that the ARINC data isn't getting to the AP.

If you have a Trutrak, is it in GPSS mode when you engage the AP?

Also, there is a ARINC utility on the GTN650 Diagnostic page. You should be seeing data (0's and 1's) which the exception of two labels. Those two are for glideslope and the heading bug. If you toggle the heading bug, you can see data in that label come and go.
 
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