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My 2 cents

kstone

Member
I see there are no current posts here, so I guess the subject has been beaten to death, but I wanted to give my experience in hopes of helping others making the tip/slider decision.
Bought my -7A last year after many months of searching. It was pretty much exactly what I had been looking for except it was a tip-up. Knowing this plane was likely going to be as close to my dream plane as I was likely to find, I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I won't say that I regret the decision, but I can say I hate (yes, hate) the tip-up. It has been nothing but a pain in my posterior from the beginning, nothing but trouble. I don't have the time to go into all the problems it's caused (and expenses!), but the list is long. Feel free to PM me if you would like more details.
 
Understanding what to expect and a good pre purchase inspection could have saved you a lot of grief.
 
Interesting, I am on the other side of this issue, the tip up was the only option for me, rear panel access, the elimination of the center bar and much easier to get in and out of. Opens, closes and locks with a snug fit. Easy to raise up a couple of inches on taxi to let the air in.

On the slider I do like the extension mod that someone is selling. That should significantly help getting in and out of the airplane.
 
The two items I hated was the intense heat during summer taxi and the fear of the wind ripping it off after exiting plane and leaving it open while getting stuff out. Went with slider on second plane and glad I did.

I see there are no current posts here, so I guess the subject has been beaten to death, but I wanted to give my experience in hopes of helping others making the tip/slider decision.
Bought my -7A last year after many months of searching. It was pretty much exactly what I had been looking for except it was a tip-up. Knowing this plane was likely going to be as close to my dream plane as I was likely to find, I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I won't say that I regret the decision, but I can say I hate (yes, hate) the tip-up. It has been nothing but a pain in my posterior from the beginning, nothing but trouble. I don't have the time to go into all the problems it's caused (and expenses!), but the list is long. Feel free to PM me if you would like more details.
 
In my humble opinion, you should post your gripes here for others to learn from. Otherwise this is 1 cent short of a 2 cent post...
 
Post your issues

I am a proud Tip-up builder/flyer and have no issues with the tip-up whatsoever. I know many local Tip-up flyers who have had no issues also.

I have seen some really poor Tip-up constructions over the years. Some I would not touch if you paid me.

I fly in southern AZ and the sun is intense. Yes it is a bit hot under the bubble canopy, but on the ground you can crack it open and get airflow. Typically I am not on the ground very long and once airborne both canopy's are effected the same way buy the sun. The Tip-up view is superior compared to the slider. Some say you get used to the slider canopy bow in your view, but with the Tip-up canopy the view is so unobstructed that I forget the canopy is there.

Yes you need to aware of the wind conditions/direction when you open the canopy on a very windy day, but I have a much greater concern about my rudder slamming into the rudder stops when I remove my feet from the pedals on a windy day. I never leave my canopy fully open unless I am next to the airplane on a windy day. Just my normal procedure.

Maybe if the poster explained more about his issues there might be a few Tip-up owners who might be able to offer advise or help.

Post away......
 
Tip Up

Couldn't be happier with my tip-up! Unobstructed view is top on the list. Five years of flying and not a single mechanical issue. That's my two cents.

Jim Diehl 7A Tip Up
 
I could not agree more with Paul. I have been flying a tip up for 4000hrs and would not want to change. Working on the avionics is much easier as is getting in and out. Built properly the tip up is draft free and robust. Living in Texas I do not find heat to be an issue. Canopy is up until the engine starts then propped up by the D handle until take off. Plenty of air spills in along the sides once the fan turns.

Martin Sutter
Building and flying RV's since 1988
EAA Technical Councelor
Eagles Nest Mentor
 
Hate? Wow! Sounds like your best bet would be to park it for 3 or 4 months, spend a couple grand and several hundred hours of blood sweat and tears converting it to a slider.

Personally I'd fly the **** out of it and enjoy the nice view. Dude you own a flying machine! :D
 
Everybody has a right to their opinion. The fact of the matter is simple and remains the same. It is a personal preference. You can argue the pluses and minuses of slider vs tipper all day long. They both have their upsides and downsides.
 
Everybody has a right to their opinion. The fact of the matter is simple and remains the same. It is a personal preference. You can argue the pluses and minuses of slider vs tipper all day long. They both have their upsides and downsides.


Yep, like my Daddy used to say, "That's why they make chocolate AND vanilla ice cream". Everybody has their preferences and I'm not telling tipper owners they're wrong, just that the tipper is wrong for me. The more feedback we give builder/buyers the more informed decision they can make.

A couple of posters asked what specific issues I've had with the tipper. In chronological order:

1. The t-handle safety latch locked itself when the canopy was closed. I kid you not, the handle turned 90 degrees while closed to perfectly lock me out. When seating in the plane to get that latch to turn you must pull down and turn with a fair amount of force, but somehow it latched on its own. Thanks to input from folks on this site I was finally able to get it open a couple of weeks later without drilling the Plexiglas.

2. The fiberglass trim strip that covers the screws on the back of the canopy broke off a piece then started to split and eventually came off in flight. It hit the horizontal stabilizer and elevator leaving scratches. Glad that's all it did.

3. After a flight, I was on the wing, reached in to get my flight bag out of the back and was handing it to someone on the ground behind me when a gust of wind slammed the canopy down breaking off a 2" L x 3/4" W piece of Plexiglas. The plane is still flyable, but at some point I'll have to go to the big expense of replacing the canopy.

Folks say they like the ability to open the canopy and let it rest on the t-handle giving a 2" vent while on the ground. That's fine, but you better not forget that if you catch a strong gust from behind, that canopy is coming up fast and can do a lot of damage (there's a good video on this site of the canopy going into the prop). I've had this happen but fortunately caught it before it flew all the way open. If it's windy now, I just close and latch the canopy and deal with the heat.

Hope this helps!
 
Love my tip-up

for all the reasons cited, and would only ever change it for one reason: I'm convinced a shallow water ditching has a high chance of ending in an inverted drowning outcome since the canopy is not jettisonable in flight nor openable when sitting on the bottom inverted. Not if built to plans. Pretty much given the plane will flip. Do you carry a James Bond pocket scuba device? I don't.

Before the inevitable drift happens, let's stipulate that it's been beaten to death in the ditching threads.
 
Thanks for more info

As a Tip-builder and flyer I think it is important to help those considering a Tip-up canopy to understand from others what maybe the cause of the issues you have had and why some of us have not had these issues.


1. The t-handle safety latch locked itself when the canopy was closed. I kid you not, the handle turned 90 degrees while closed to perfectly lock me out. When seating in the plane to get that latch to turn you must pull down and turn with a fair amount of force, but somehow it latched on its own. Thanks to input from folks on this site I was finally able to get it open a couple of weeks later without drilling the Plexiglas.
The mounting block for the safety latch on my RV was pre-drilled by the factory to accept the t-handle shaft. Typically when drilling the UHMW material the hole shrinks from the actural drill size. Therefore the t-handle shaft fits tightly in the hole. Mine will never turn on its own. I believe the original builder may have enlarged the hole allowing the handle to move freely. So for those new Tip-up builders don't enlarge the hole in the block.

2. The fiberglass trim strip that covers the screws on the back of the canopy broke off a piece then started to split and eventually came off in flight. It hit the horizontal stabilizer and elevator leaving scratches. Glad that's all it did.
This trim strip is not in the plans but several have fabricated one. Bonding fiberglass to plexiglass can be an issue. Sliders have at strip similar to this strip for the canopy fairing along the back. Sliders can have de-bonding just as you did.

3. After a flight, I was on the wing, reached in to get my flight bag out of the back and was handing it to someone on the ground behind me when a gust of wind slammed the canopy down breaking off a 2" L x 3/4" W piece of Plexiglas. The plane is still flyable, but at some point I'll have to go to the big expense of replacing the canopy.
Understanding that the canopy can become a big sail is the cost of owning a Tip-up. Care should always be taken when the canopy is open. Hope you weren't hurt
 
...

2. The fiberglass trim strip that covers the screws on the back of the canopy broke off a piece then started to split and eventually came off in flight. It hit the horizontal stabilizer and elevator leaving scratches. Glad that's all it did.
This trim strip is not in the plans but several have fabricated one. Bonding fiberglass to plexiglass can be an issue. Sliders have at strip similar to this strip for the canopy fairing along the back. Sliders can have de-bonding just as you did.

...

And to add to Paul's comment.

There is no need to rely on bonding to attach the Targa strip. It can simply be held on with countersunk screws that go through the three layers of fiberglass, Plexiglas and frame.
 
Folks say they like the ability to open the canopy and let it rest on the t-handle giving a 2" vent while on the ground. That's fine, but you better not forget that if you catch a strong gust from behind, that canopy is coming up fast and can do a lot of damage (there's a good video on this site of the canopy going into the prop). I've had this happen but fortunately caught it before it flew all the way open. If it's windy now, I just close and latch the canopy and deal with the heat.

Hope this helps!

In the interest of fairness, the video of a canopy being flung open in a very strong wind and hitting the prop is of an RV-12. The -12 has a different canopy design than the other tip-up RVs. The tip-up of a RV-6, -7, -9 cannot open far enough to hit the prop (well, maybe if a gale-force wind ripped the strut assemblies out of the fuselage, but if the wind is that strong there are other problems to worry about....and the pilot definitely needs to be cautious when the plane is subject to prop or jet wash.).

The issues the original poster noted can be addressed by proper construction of the tip-up canopy and reasonable care in use. I understand his frustration but feel his statements do not reflect the tens of thousands of hours of satisfactory tip-up canopy service. But I'm glad we have a choice so all RVers can love their ride. :)

But I'm admittedly biased by nearly twenty years of enjoyable tip-up flying.
 
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To each his own...

I won't say that I regret the decision, but I can say I hate (yes, hate) the tip-up. It has been nothing but a pain in my posterior from the beginning, nothing but trouble. I don't have the time to go into all the problems it's caused (and expenses!), but the list is long. Feel free to PM me if you would like more details.

Sir,
Recently a customer told me of his issue with his Tip-Up leaking water on the avionics while flying in rain or when he opened the canopy after a rain. I told him to stop flying through rain! Tip-ups leak at the front, sliders leak at the back, nuff said. It's all relative.
My RVX is a slider and I do like taxiing in the TX heat with my arm out the side and a breeze blowing. However comma, the visibility in the Tip-Up inflight is much like the F-16 or RV-4/Rocket: unobscured.
A definite plus.

Speaking of my RV4/HR2, it has the best set-up of all, tip over! :)

V/R
Smokey
 
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I was building an RV-7 with a slider (because, well, it's a slider, it looks cool!) when I found it necessary to switch to the RV-12. No choice there, it's a tip-up.

I really don't mind it. It's not as much of a PITA as I thought it would be. Don't leave it open, ever, if you're not standing right there. Aside from that, especially with the new canopy catch from Van's, the incredible visibility is well worth the cool factor trade-off. I can't hang my arm out the window while I taxi, but I can pop the canopy up a few inches and still use that big cooling fan up front.

Put another way: If I were to start another 7 or a 9, I'd go with a tip-up. Instead, my next project is open cockpit, just not quite as fast. :)
 
Two things i really like about my slider is the handles on the front bow for entering/exiting and holding on to the front center support in turbulence. Whenever it gets rough and bumpy my right hand ends up on the center support, has sort of a calming effect.
 
RV's flip when ditching?

...Pretty much given the plane will flip. Do you carry a James Bond pocket scuba device?...

Bill; Do you know of many RV's that have "flipped" upon ditching? in the early 2000's I remember reading about an RV-8 off the Hawaiian Islands that lost it's engine and had to ditch. It didn't flip in that specific case, but the pilot later said he wished he hadn't opened his sliding canopy all the way (prior to touchdown) since it slammed forward with great velocity, and could have become stuck if unlucky. His conclusion was to unlock it, but not open it prior to touchdown in a ditching situation.

Doug

RV-9A FWF
RV-3A restored / sold
 
Jettison Slider Mod

On the sliders- if you cut a notch in the upper rail towards the back- large enough for the roller to pass through, the canopy can be removed with no tools ( I guess in flight also, although I've never tried it) . So it could be jettisoned before impact. Not sure what it would do to the tail feathers- so wait until the second to last moment!
 
RV-7 water "dead stick" by beach in ITA

Wow...never knew about this landing and the immediate flip over.

Doug
 
The only thing I hate about the tip up on my 6 is the leaking while on the ground. In the air I can fly through some heavy rain and I do feel a mist on my legs, but it is doable. On the ground it took out a few grand in radios from a rain. Now I use blue painters tape to seal it up whenever I'm parked outside. I've been working on putting in weather strip, sealing up any holes around the hinge points with lexal, and making sure I seal up any potential entry points for water as I find them.
 
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